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So the PL meds, another line where tier 9 is better?


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no_skill_bob #1 Posted 17 July 2020 - 09:16 AM

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So far, at least what we have from the test, it seems like pl medium line is going to be one of those,  which has a tier 9, that is way better tier for tier than a top of the line.

statwise with 100% crew cs- 59 seems like its very similar to amx 30, which is a very strong tier 9. cs-59 has 3rd highest dpm of tier 9 meds, slightly lower than amx 30 and slightly higher than type 61, first place is e50 with the long 88, but no one really plays with that gun anyway.

 

gun depression, again right in a middle between type 61 and amx 30, -9 degrees. but what is kind of strange to me, why it has 1,8k HP at tier 9? thats tier 10 HP pretty much.

 

it has very good concealment values as well, only downside being a lower mobility than its tier 9 high dpm counterparts, but its not 430 slow.

 

overall doesnt seem like any of pl meds has any armor, they are like a hybrid between a soviet med and leopard. cs-63 rapid mode, seems more like a gimmick, rather than actually being good for anything, ok you can get into position faster at the beginning and thats about it, although it might be useful if you like to run away from enemies all the time, lol.

 

forgot one more thing: 252 ap pen and 293 apcr(with good shell velocity) on a tier 9

 

 

 

 

 


Edited by no_skill_bob, 17 July 2020 - 09:17 AM.


GodTank2 #2 Posted 17 July 2020 - 09:54 AM

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Are you kidding? The tier 10 is very good not only do you get insane speed with some turret armor but the dpm is insane with 390 alpha. Fully maxed you can reach 3.7k-3.8k dpm. Also accuracy is very good

The tier 9 is just a generic boring medium.



no_skill_bob #3 Posted 17 July 2020 - 10:09 AM

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View PostGodTank2, on 17 July 2020 - 10:54 AM, said:

Are you kidding? The tier 10 is very good not only do you get insane speed with some turret armor but the dpm is insane with 390 alpha. Fully maxed you can reach 3.7k-3.8k dpm. Also accuracy is very good

The tier 9 is just a generic boring medium.

well, we have a better alternatives with high dpm and "some" turret armor at tier 10 - stb-1. 

cs-63 turret is full paper, only upper plate has autobounce angles, like progetto 65. its way too soon to see how it will work in randoms overall, but tier 9 feels better tier for tier atm.

tier 9 has 3,6k dpm maxed out, so the difference is tiny, especially, considering tier 10 mm.


Edited by no_skill_bob, 17 July 2020 - 10:14 AM.


tokarevs #4 Posted 17 July 2020 - 10:15 AM

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View PostGodTank2, on 17 July 2020 - 08:54 AM, said:

Are you kidding? The tier 10 is very good not only do you get insane speed with some turret armor but the dpm is insane with 390 alpha. Fully maxed you can reach 3.7k-3.8k dpm. Also accuracy is very good

The tier 9 is just a generic boring medium.

Mostly tier 9's are better than tier 10's. Not because they have better characteristics, but tier 9's often have same guns and as tier 10's and also overall characteristics, for example leopard pta, škoda t50 etc. Those tier 9's are like tier 10's with better matchmaking - weaker stats but mostly the same and doesnt meet only tier 10's and sometimes can meet tier 7's. So, personally I am not buying tier 10's anymore, only if they are a lot different than tier 9 tank. Same with polish meds.



UserZer00 #5 Posted 17 July 2020 - 10:16 AM

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Yet another line showing that WG is moving from ARMORED based gameplay to more of a SPEED based gameplay.

Not a complaint, just an observation.

Their ability to get into positions earlier is just going to increase the base camping of heavy, slow tanks and TDs (of which we see less and less)



_Signal_ #6 Posted 17 July 2020 - 10:20 AM

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View Posttokarevs, on 17 July 2020 - 09:15 AM, said:

Mostly tier 9's are better than tier 10's. Not because they have better characteristics, but tier 9's often have same guns and as tier 10's and also overall characteristics, for example leopard pta, škoda t50 etc. Those tier 9's are like tier 10's with better matchmaking - weaker stats but mostly the same and doesnt meet only tier 10's and sometimes can meet tier 7's. So, personally I am not buying tier 10's anymore, only if they are a lot different than tier 9 tank. Same with polish meds.

Pretty much this, nearly all tier 10's are "better" than their tier 9 equivs but and its a big but tier 10 MM is trash and has been for ages so when you factor everything in to a tank like MM's etc then tier 9 are usually better overall.



Bora_BOOM #7 Posted 17 July 2020 - 10:27 AM

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They have to make the tier 9 strong, cause the premium tier 8 they will get in the shop soon will be tier 8,5.

:P



ZlatanArKung #8 Posted 17 July 2020 - 10:38 AM

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View PostBora_BOOM, on 17 July 2020 - 10:27 AM, said:

They have to make the tier 9 strong, cause the premium tier 8 they will get in the shop soon will be tier 8,5.

:P

The T8 premium will be like 'T9 prototype' which is the T9 with a bit worse stats overall.



Bora_BOOM #9 Posted 17 July 2020 - 10:49 AM

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View PostZlatanArKung, on 17 July 2020 - 09:38 AM, said:

The T8 premium will be like 'T9 prototype' which is the T9 with a bit worse stats overall.

 

Exactly.



Kdingo #10 Posted 17 July 2020 - 12:09 PM

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View PostZlatanArKung, on 17 July 2020 - 10:38 AM, said:

The T8 premium will be like 'T9 prototype' which is the T9 with a bit worse stats overall.

 

Just add pref mm +1-3 so the customer will have a better experience.

Tier 9 in disguise roaming tier 5 matches, sounds like a new money making scheme, that i am sure will have people eager to buy into.



no_skill_bob #11 Posted 17 July 2020 - 12:19 PM

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here, comparison between cs-63 and stb-1, so what is the exact point of cs-63? in rapid mode it lose its camo and cant fire for crap, as it gets a t49 levels of bloom.

Posted Image

Posted Image

you might say that not everyone mount bond equipment on live server, well i have bond rammer and vents on stb-1, so next patch it will be 4,2k dpm. 

stats says that cs-63 has 260 turret front and stb only 222, in reality, cs-63 has no armor at all, 260 is at the flat gun mantlet, cheeks are like 120mm. while on stb you still kind of have to aim, to pen that turret every time.

so i really dont get the idea of it - it can bounce only if rng bless you, so it clearly not an udes or stb, polish leopard then? then it will be a bad version of leopard, as in patch 1.10 leopard will have the same dpm as cs-63 and way better gun.

Posted Image

dont get me wrong, im not asking for another super OP tank, i just dont see a purpose of it, looking for a reason to even grind it as it doesnt offer anything unique, that turbo mode?

well cool, but you have to spend 4s switching on/off and its barely faster than bc25t.


Edited by no_skill_bob, 17 July 2020 - 12:33 PM.


Crusader2k13 #12 Posted 17 July 2020 - 02:01 PM

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View PostGodTank2, on 17 July 2020 - 09:54 AM, said:

Are you kidding? The tier 10 is very good not only do you get insane speed with some turret armor but the dpm is insane with 390 alpha. Fully maxed you can reach 3.7k-3.8k dpm. Also accuracy is very good

The tier 9 is just a generic boring medium.

 

Agreed on the Tier X, which atleast to me is broken af. But you are wrong on the tier IX: for me, this is one of the best (if not the best) tier ix med in the game after the patch. 3548 dpm with that camo, gun handling, alpha AND base ben of 252, is ridiculous.



Crusader2k13 #13 Posted 17 July 2020 - 02:17 PM

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View Postno_skill_bob, on 17 July 2020 - 12:19 PM, said:

dont get me wrong, im not asking for another super OP tank, i just dont see a purpose of it, looking for a reason to even grind it as it doesnt offer anything unique, that turbo mode?

 

Don't underestimate the ability to zoom and flex around the map at 70 km/h...



no_skill_bob #14 Posted 17 July 2020 - 05:30 PM

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View PostCrusader2k13, on 17 July 2020 - 03:17 PM, said:

 

Don't underestimate the ability to zoom and flex around the map at 70 km/h...

well, bc-25t does that as good as pl med without any need to switch between some speed modes.

when you zoom around at 70, you are out of the battle, because you cant use your gun lol.


Edited by no_skill_bob, 17 July 2020 - 05:31 PM.


Desyatnik_Pansy #15 Posted 17 July 2020 - 05:44 PM

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View PostGodTank2, on 17 July 2020 - 09:54 AM, said:

Are you kidding? The tier 10 is very good not only do you get insane speed with some turret armor but the dpm is insane with 390 alpha. 

 

It basically has no turret armour from what I could tell when testing it a bit in a training room. Only the mantlet cheeks are 260mm while most of the rest of the turret seems to be 60mm or whatever the listed side armour is, and the only other spot than the mantlet that might absorb a hit is the spot immediately above it. Admittedly I didn't test it extensively, but it's certainly gonna be something that only really gets a trollbounce or two but otherwise most shells will go through.



roboslash #16 Posted 18 July 2020 - 10:19 PM

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The CS-63 seems kind of underwhelming IMO. It would work much better as a design if it actually had turret armor. If the tanks.gg armor model is correct, only the mantlet is 260 mm, the rest is paper.

 

Off topic but kind of annoying how WG still don't have an in-game armor model inspection tool, and you need to rely on 3rd party websites for this. The armor statistics on paper are often very misleading.

 

Edit: I see that @Desyatnik_Pansy has already commented on this, my bad.

 


Edited by roboslash, 18 July 2020 - 10:22 PM.


tajj7 #17 Posted 19 July 2020 - 11:12 AM

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The whole line looks very meh to me.

 

The tier 9 looks like a generic tier 9 tank with not much going for it. Speed is meh, it has bad ground resistances, it has no armour, gun handling is ok but hardly good and the only real thing it has is DPM.  It looks pretty similar to a Type 61 but slightly worse in almost every way bar alpha and top speed. 

 

And the tier 10, it's again very meh in the normal mode, and the gun is unusable in the fast mode, and the fast mode gives you the same top speed as a Leo 1, with a worst reverse speed and 8 hp/ton more.

 

It also doesn't really have armour either, might be a bit troll with the upper plate and that gun mantlet but very far from reliable. 

 

And it takes 2s to change modes where you have to be stop still, so for normal engagements it has to be in the slow mode, then it has to sit still for 2s to start going fast, meanwhile other fast meds are already ahead of you so you have to catch up, and by the time you over take them for any significant advantage you'll probably have reached where you need to be. Meaning the turbo mode has very limited uses, mainly running away and getting somewhere fast from the countdown, but lights will still easily beat you there and they can actually use their guns whilst doing that.

 

IMO either the gun has to be better in normal mode OR they make it so that the mobility stats it has with the turbocharger equipped, are it's base stats, so it is already faster than a Leo 1, and already has like nearly 10 hp/ton more, and then you can put the turbocharger on to basically get to 80kph top speed, 26kph reverse and like 33 hp/ton. 

 

Because I don't see the point of a tank that trades it's gun for mobility, when that mobility is only marginally better than a tank with a way way better gun and neither tank has much armour.

 

If you look at the 'fast' tier 10 meds, the Leo 1 has an excellent gun and goes 70kph, the Bat Chat and Progetto go 65kph and both have clips, the 30b is a forgotten tank but also goes 65kph, has better DPM and gun handling, and can use it at those top speeds.

 

So really what are gaining, 5kph top speed over the faster tier 10 meds, about 8 hp/ton, and for that you have a worst gun generally and an almost useless gun in the fast mode, seems a crap trade to me.

 

It's basically a worse AMX 30b, that can occasionally go a bit faster if you don't want to actually use your gun.

 

 



FatigueGalaxy #18 Posted 19 July 2020 - 06:06 PM

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View Posttajj7, on 19 July 2020 - 11:12 AM, said:

The whole line looks very meh to me.

 

The tier 9 looks like a generic tier 9 tank with not much going for it. Speed is meh, it has bad ground resistances, it has no armour, gun handling is ok but hardly good and the only real thing it has is DPM.  It looks pretty similar to a Type 61 but slightly worse in almost every way bar alpha and top speed. 

 

And the tier 10, it's again very meh in the normal mode, and the gun is unusable in the fast mode, and the fast mode gives you the same top speed as a Leo 1, with a worst reverse speed and 8 hp/ton more.

 

It also doesn't really have armour either, might be a bit troll with the upper plate and that gun mantlet but very far from reliable. 

 

And it takes 2s to change modes where you have to be stop still, so for normal engagements it has to be in the slow mode, then it has to sit still for 2s to start going fast, meanwhile other fast meds are already ahead of you so you have to catch up, and by the time you over take them for any significant advantage you'll probably have reached where you need to be. Meaning the turbo mode has very limited uses, mainly running away and getting somewhere fast from the countdown, but lights will still easily beat you there and they can actually use their guns whilst doing that.

 

IMO either the gun has to be better in normal mode OR they make it so that the mobility stats it has with the turbocharger equipped, are it's base stats, so it is already faster than a Leo 1, and already has like nearly 10 hp/ton more, and then you can put the turbocharger on to basically get to 80kph top speed, 26kph reverse and like 33 hp/ton. 

 

Because I don't see the point of a tank that trades it's gun for mobility, when that mobility is only marginally better than a tank with a way way better gun and neither tank has much armour.

 

If you look at the 'fast' tier 10 meds, the Leo 1 has an excellent gun and goes 70kph, the Bat Chat and Progetto go 65kph and both have clips, the 30b is a forgotten tank but also goes 65kph, has better DPM and gun handling, and can use it at those top speeds.

 

So really what are gaining, 5kph top speed over the faster tier 10 meds, about 8 hp/ton, and for that you have a worst gun generally and an almost useless gun in the fast mode, seems a crap trade to me.

 

It's basically a worse AMX 30b, that can occasionally go a bit faster if you don't want to actually use your gun.

 

 


I can't agree. You use turbo mode to get into key position and then you have "some armour" and enough firepower to stay there and fight. Leopard has almost the same mobility but it can't do the same job as CS-63 because it would simply die. Bat.Chat and Progetto are similar - they don't have "sustain" to keep fighting in key location so you have to use camo and view range so soften your targets before going in.

CS-63 has the mobility and enough sustain to rush to key location and hold them. It does basically the same thing as STB-1 (get to hulldown spot and be a pain in the butt) but you have access to much better mobility to get to those key locations.

 

I wouldn't disregard the little armour advantage that CS-63 has over Leopard. Bouncing shots occasionally, not taking massive hits from arty, not getting penetrated by HE (EBR's drive-bys - the bane of all paper high tier mediums) - all of this with even better mobility than Leopard's at the expense of having to switch modes and being unable to shoot while moving. How this can be bad?

IMO, we have to wait and see how it will perform in randoms on the live server. I can't be the only one thinking that something that can go 70 km/h with amazing power to weight ratio, decent gun depression and firepower, and some armour on top of it, can't be bad.



TheGreatGazoo #19 Posted 19 July 2020 - 06:10 PM

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View Post_Signal_, on 17 July 2020 - 09:20 AM, said:

Pretty much this, nearly all tier 10's are "better" than their tier 9 equivs but and its a big but tier 10 MM is trash and has been for ages so when you factor everything in to a tank like MM's etc then tier 9 are usually better overall.

Do you think that Tier X being  trash and most folks playing their Tier IXs instead is part of the reason that WG nerfed bond income; to force us to play more/all of our Tier Xs?



_Signal_ #20 Posted 19 July 2020 - 08:17 PM

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View PostTheGreatGazoo, on 19 July 2020 - 05:10 PM, said:

Do you think that Tier X being  trash and most folks playing their Tier IXs instead is part of the reason that WG nerfed bond income; to force us to play more/all of our Tier Xs?

Pretending to know the mind of WG is something I won;t admit to, I've been playing this game for what 9 years and still haven;t got the foggiest of how they think. They tend to do the complete opposite of what common sense would dictate. 






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