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Tell me, why do people suddenly change established map tactics?


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evilchaosmonkey #1 Posted 19 July 2020 - 12:40 PM

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Something I've been paying attention to over the last few months, as I near uninstall through frustration.

There appear to be sudden changes in long established map tactics - heavies for example going where meds used to go, whole flanks now being routinely left un-tanked.

Why? 

 

Tank characteristics haven't changed enough to warrant these complete changes - at least I don't think so.

It's almost as if there is a very influential streamer that is recommending these new tactics to the Steves of this world.

If that's the case, I'd like to know who they are.  I have my voodoo doll kit ready and waiting to inflict punishing pain on them - I need a name.

 

More seriously, how can we influence things so they don't become as stupid as they are now?

or

How the hell do we understand what's probably going through the mind of Steve so we can adapt and overcome?


Edited by evilchaosmonkey, 19 July 2020 - 12:42 PM.


shikaka9 #2 Posted 19 July 2020 - 12:43 PM

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people got bored or just dont care anymore

Lance_Horne #3 Posted 19 July 2020 - 12:45 PM

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Players probably trying different tactics, getting fed up  of playing the same old way, or maybe medium players moving up to heavies. :B

Hyina #4 Posted 19 July 2020 - 12:53 PM

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Give examples?

 

Tactics change over time because more players see successful plays and do it themselves, EBRs make large patches of maps pretty redundant too.



NekoPuffer_PPP #5 Posted 19 July 2020 - 12:54 PM

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Accelerated progression.

 

Tier 5 tactics (no tactics) don't work in tier 10. Too many noobs in high tiers with no clue what they're doing.

 

End of story.

 

Put "WG" on your voodoo doll.



mpf1959 #6 Posted 19 July 2020 - 01:06 PM

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The sudden influx of players as they try to amuse themselves during this lockdown. Well, maybe!

Bulldog_Drummond #7 Posted 19 July 2020 - 01:12 PM

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I have noticed that people seem to be camping the west side corners on Prok these days, maybe there was a map change I haven't spotted

Usual things like heavies going north on Mannerheim, to valley on Lake, to beach on Overlord, etc, or teams not noticing it is an Encounter game have been with us forever



evilchaosmonkey #8 Posted 19 July 2020 - 01:24 PM

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View PostHyina, on 19 July 2020 - 11:53 AM, said:

Give examples?

 

Tactics change over time because more players see successful plays and do it themselves, EBRs make large patches of maps pretty redundant too.

 

Heavies going up the hill on the top right hand side on Sand River instead of the valley down the middle for one.

Lakeville, heavies going up the centre instead of valley or town for another.

 

If all this is boredom then god help us.



Gkirmathal #9 Posted 19 July 2020 - 01:32 PM

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A combination of several things, in my opinion.

- accelerated progression of new players.

- the "summer dip" (a.k. natural decline due to the age of WoT argument) decline of regular players

- skill distribution within the remaining playing player pool.

 

More new player are accelerated through the tech tree, don't properly learn the maps, summer vacation/player retention that has been going down and how that both effects the skill  distribution of players still playing in this period.

 

That or everyone is drunk/has hangovers because the lockdown is being relaxed through European continent.



kaneloon #10 Posted 19 July 2020 - 03:50 PM

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It's easy, I can tell you why.

If I am one of the few standard heavies versus a 279e, chieftain, 3 arties, 3 scouts and the rest are FV, Strv, 183, etc ... you can ping the map 30 times, I won't go alone on the "heavy line".

I really don't care if it means losing - why should I commit suicide because WG match maker trolls me ?


Edited by kaneloon, 19 July 2020 - 03:52 PM.


saxsan4 #11 Posted 19 July 2020 - 05:54 PM

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View Postevilchaosmonkey, on 19 July 2020 - 12:24 PM, said:

 

Heavies going up the hill on the top right hand side on Sand River instead of the valley down the middle for one.

Lakeville, heavies going up the centre instead of valley or town for another.

 

If all this is boredom then god help us.


I NEVER go to the valley in sand river, I always go to the north hill if im in medium, heavy, TD , etc

 

Players should have to go to one part of the map, I get bored sometimes of going to the same part of the map every game so I try out new places



NUKLEAR_SLUG #12 Posted 19 July 2020 - 06:21 PM

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Just because it's always been done one way doesn't mean it's smart to keep doing it that way. 

UserZer00 #13 Posted 19 July 2020 - 06:30 PM

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Because people are tired of going to places where:
-their armor is supposed to work, but gets easily penned by premium ammo
- they get spotted by EBRs before spotting any of the enemies
- it used to be possible to snipe from, but are now too obvious and get blind fired by arty or TD
- if they move too far in the wrong direction they are easily spotted in situations where they previously could get somewhere safe.

Basically, increased speed and premium ammo penning a lot of tanks that rely on armor have had a major impact on "standard" tactics

evilchaosmonkey #14 Posted 19 July 2020 - 06:35 PM

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I get that occasionally people do different things, that's fine.

 

What I see is almost some kind of coordinated meta change going on - right at match start the heavies on arctic going to the top left instead of next to the river.... not heavies thinking oh look a lemming train forming, I better join it but split second turn and drive at game start.

 

Hence my curiosity if this is being driven by a streamer or a youtuber.

 

The maps are designed to be played one way and a bit daft to try and force them to be played differently - or am I missing something?.



Miepie #15 Posted 19 July 2020 - 06:41 PM

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I do occasionally go with the mediums if I am a bottom tier Heavy and not in a mood to face 2-tier-higher Heavies.

 

That said, maybe people simply got utterly sick of routine after El-Halluffing for ten long years... :popcorn:



IntruderFI #16 Posted 19 July 2020 - 07:09 PM

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View Postevilchaosmonkey, on 19 July 2020 - 02:40 PM, said:

Something I've been paying attention to over the last few months, as I near uninstall through frustration.

There appear to be sudden changes in long established map tactics - heavies for example going where meds used to go, whole flanks now being routinely left un-tanked.

Why? 

 

Tank characteristics haven't changed enough to warrant these complete changes - at least I don't think so.

It's almost as if there is a very influential streamer that is recommending these new tactics to the Steves of this world.

If that's the case, I'd like to know who they are.  I have my voodoo doll kit ready and waiting to inflict punishing pain on them - I need a name.

 

More seriously, how can we influence things so they don't become as stupid as they are now?

or

How the hell do we understand what's probably going through the mind of Steve so we can adapt and overcome?

 

Sounds like you fail to adapt to new situations 



no_skill_bob #17 Posted 19 July 2020 - 07:32 PM

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View Postevilchaosmonkey, on 19 July 2020 - 02:24 PM, said:

 

Heavies going up the hill on the top right hand side on Sand River instead of the valley down the middle for one.

Lakeville, heavies going up the centre instead of valley or town for another.

 

If all this is boredom then god help us.

Sand river middle is unplayable for heavies, as they get rekt by basecamping tds, say tnx to wg, that made those great map changes.


Edited by no_skill_bob, 19 July 2020 - 07:33 PM.


Bordhaw #18 Posted 19 July 2020 - 07:34 PM

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View Postevilchaosmonkey, on 19 July 2020 - 11:40 AM, said:

Something I've been paying attention to over the last few months, as I near uninstall through frustration.

There appear to be sudden changes in long established map tactics - heavies for example going where meds used to go, whole flanks now being routinely left un-tanked.

Why? 

 

Tank characteristics haven't changed enough to warrant these complete changes - at least I don't think so.

It's almost as if there is a very influential streamer that is recommending these new tactics to the Steves of this world.

If that's the case, I'd like to know who they are.  I have my voodoo doll kit ready and waiting to inflict punishing pain on them - I need a name.

 

More seriously, how can we influence things so they don't become as stupid as they are now?

or

How the hell do we understand what's probably going through the mind of Steve so we can adapt and overcome?


New players start at Tier 6 now so will be in Tier 8 battles....having not seen half of the maps because of the terrible map rotation. 



Hyina #19 Posted 19 July 2020 - 08:24 PM

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View Postevilchaosmonkey, on 19 July 2020 - 01:24 PM, said:

 

Heavies going up the hill on the top right hand side on Sand River instead of the valley down the middle for one.

Lakeville, heavies going up the centre instead of valley or town for another.

 

If all this is boredom then god help us.

 

The first example you gave, that is evolution of map plays and more awareness, middle valley in Sand River is completely pointless apart from maybe some proxy assistance, from either spawns. Pushing it is suicidal. Plus, the church/mosque building can perma spot all the heavies from East spawn without being spotted in return, and ridgelines at the back make it impossible for West spawn to push middle.

South is always the most important flank but because usually there are 2-3 arties, you risk getting perma stunned, so the less confident players prefer the take the safe route of going north and remaining arty safe.

 

Lakeville, that's most likely because they are doing some mission for blocking dmg, or less likely, spotting/assistance. It's worth mentioning pushing middle can be viable if you're in a fast decent armoured heavy like 260/277 from the south spawn, can spot a lot if your VR is 450+.


Edited by Hyina, 19 July 2020 - 08:25 PM.


LCpl_Jones #20 Posted 19 July 2020 - 09:06 PM

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how can new or inexperienced players form any knowledge of tactics in the 3 minute turbo battles we have nowadays, half the maps a heavy dies just trying to get somewhere, half the maps one flank leads nowhere other then an impossible to cross death zone, half the maps half of the map is a no go zone, half the maps have op camping spots so just camp there and get damage whilst losing, half the maps an ebr twating around like a fly makes moving a gamble to get stunned btg by 3 arta...

 

and on top of that, tier 6 is now the starting tier, good luck learning anything playing against pimped up premium tier 8's.

 

i honestly think the retention of new players to this games must be in single percentages






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