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Do we need BOTs in WoT ?


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OneSock #1 Posted 20 July 2020 - 12:08 PM

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I have been playing the game for a number of years and play a reasonable amount of games each week. One thing that I have observed is that there are certain tactical failures that occur over and over, month after month. I will give you two examples.

 

1. Murovanka - South Spawn. Many times I play this map the south spawn team will move to the South East corner of the map and simply camp. The majority of the team go into this corner and then do NOT push and get locked down by a couple of TDs in C1. Meanwhile the other team win the forest side of the map and then destroy the team camping in SE of map.

 

2. Lakeville - Valley. Over half the team go to the valley and are then totally ineffective being held up by some decent hulldown HT with arty support. The town side of them map is then won be the enemy team and then destroy the team camping in the spawn/valley.

 

Both of these team behaviours are seen from tier 5 to tier 10 and 9 out of 10 times results in losing.

 

It seems to me that humans are incapable of learning this, based on the number of times that I see it happen.


So, is the solution to introduce some decent bots that adapt to the behaviour of the human players ? eg. if 5 out of 15 players are bots, and the humans go camp in the corner, then the Bots can attempt to support the other strategic spots on the map ? Crazy idea ?

 


Edited by OneSock, 20 July 2020 - 12:09 PM.


Balc0ra #2 Posted 20 July 2020 - 12:13 PM

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If the bot is meant to adapt to Steve the KV-1 or IS-7 driver and his plans... I suspect the results will not be as predicted when Steve is a rather unpredictable player as is. 

 

Then again, considering how the NA bots are to fill in the low population on tier 1 to 5. The tier 5 games have been mostly the bots going to the middle to fight and the players camping the red line to farm them. So it can go that way too. 



Robbie_T #3 Posted 20 July 2020 - 12:14 PM

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I have another option

put those 44% 30k battle tomatoes on a special server where they can draw every match together.

 



OneSock #4 Posted 20 July 2020 - 12:30 PM

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View PostRobbie_T, on 20 July 2020 - 12:14 PM, said:

I have another option

put those 44% 30k battle tomatoes on a special server where they can draw every match together.

 

 

In an ideal world... we can dream.

 

But in the game it's not unusual for the MM to pick totally 1 sided games which result in steamrolling. if 5 on every team is bots, then at least 33% of the team is balanced and would mean less steamrolling. possibly.



OniichanSenpai #5 Posted 20 July 2020 - 12:31 PM

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View PostRobbie_T, on 20 July 2020 - 12:14 PM, said:

I have another option

put those 44% 30k battle tomatoes on a special server where they can draw every match together.

 

 

You realize that the win ratios will always add up to 100%, right? So after removing the tomatoes, the good players will farm the now 50% ones until they are ~47% or lower and you can repeat the process.

 


Slyspy #6 Posted 20 July 2020 - 12:37 PM

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View PostRobbie_T, on 20 July 2020 - 12:14 PM, said:

I have another option

put those 44% 30k battle tomatoes on a special server where they can draw every match together.

 

 

Personally I think that everyone with a WR of under 54% should be on their own server. Global WR not recent of course, for reasons which should be obvious.



Kdingo #7 Posted 20 July 2020 - 01:08 PM

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Problem is that the average wot player doesn't think tactical (or at all).
Lots of players have their favorite bush behind anyone else to sit in and click targets that others spot. If no one spots they often complain about "noob team" or so.
This camping idiocy is very common in td heavy games but can also be seen done by meds/heavies and even lights. Had a tier9 game on redshire where a tier9 wz132 and a tier8 light have been sitting in their favorite td bushes all game long to snipe. They did nothing. Speaks already enough for itself that this game has people so stupid they aren't even able to choose tanks that fit their "style" but play them all the same way.
Problem is you can't educate those dense people nor are they going to change as they can't/won't even understand what they do wrong.

Similar problem with certain locations. A muppet that had a good game driving his t29 as top tier into lakeville valley, in a no arty game, is going to do the exact same in tiger I as bottom tier in a tier 9 game with 3 arties per team.
For 2 reasons. 1. He didn't understand why it worked in his top tier t29 and therefore can't comprehend that most things are situational and if requirements aren't met then its highly unlikely to end well. 2. People don't like change, so they repeat the same template on all maps regardless of class/lineup etc.

Its a little as if the average player is mentally underdeveloped and incapable of analysing, comprehending and adapting.
The movie idiocracy would work as a way to visualize the average wot player. Ending up drowning crops in gatorate (or however it was called) cause someone told them it is good. So they just keep doing it unable to comprehend why crops don't grow that way.

NekoPuffer_PPP #8 Posted 20 July 2020 - 01:12 PM

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I'd rather have bots on my team than toxic trolls who hide behind arty all game.

Frostilicus #9 Posted 20 July 2020 - 01:12 PM

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Can I add the following map fails that I've seen over the weekend:

 

Himmelsdorf  - Nobody went to hill

Abbey - 1 tank went on the long road by the water, nobody to the middle, 1 Med stayed in base with me (I was in Turtle so tried to help on the road)

 

Both were a complete roflstomp - I had a lot of decent battles, still lost but decent, but these two were complete annihilations

 

Personally, I'm 100% in favour of a PvE mode like WOWs has - it would be a lot less frustrating!


Edited by Frostilicus, 20 July 2020 - 01:14 PM.


OneSock #10 Posted 20 July 2020 - 04:27 PM

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One potential benefit with Bots is that with the new command system in 1.10, if you actually ask a Bot for help, the bot would actually respond to your request.

shikaka9 #11 Posted 20 July 2020 - 04:43 PM

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yup we need them, some good players can have shiny stats, some bad players can have average stats etc :bajan:

malachi6 #12 Posted 20 July 2020 - 04:57 PM

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I love made-up statistics and bold [edited]assertions made based on belief rather than fact.  

OneSock #13 Posted 20 July 2020 - 05:06 PM

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View Postshikaka9, on 20 July 2020 - 04:43 PM, said:

yup we need them, some good players can have shiny stats, some bad players can have average stats etc :bajan:

 

 

View PostFrostilicus, on 20 July 2020 - 01:12 PM, said:

 

Both were a complete roflstomp - I had a lot of decent battles, still lost but decent, but these two were complete annihilations

 

Personally, I'm 100% in favour of a PvE mode like WOWs has - it would be a lot less frustrating!

 

Don't know if you played the "Road to Berlin" PVE mode from a short while back ? Those BOTs were ninja in their ability to a) avoid arty, b) snapshot c) snipe weakspots from 400m. They were quite frustrating at times too.

 

A limited number of such BOTs on each team would, 1. Carry the bad players, 2. Give the good players a challenge, 3. even the playing-field so less steamroller games.

 

It would result in less spread between the tomato and the unicum, and no need for changing the MM.

 

 



Snagfang #14 Posted 20 July 2020 - 05:06 PM

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I think a better (and easier to implement) solution would be for WG to introduce a basic tactic tutorial along with the one they have now, explaining the importance of

map tactics (you know, like there are TWO sides to every map for instance) and a simplified explanation of tank class roles (obviously this doesn't mean you HAVE to abide by it,

but at least noobs would be aware). Bung in a bit of XP or credits for completing it and... well it's better than nothing right?



Kdingo #15 Posted 20 July 2020 - 05:13 PM

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View PostOneSock, on 20 July 2020 - 05:06 PM, said:

 

Don't know if you played the "Road to Berlin" PVE mode from a short while back ? Those BOTs were ninja in their ability to a) avoid arty, b) snapshot c) snipe weakspots from 400m. They were quite frustrating at times too.

 

 

Reminds me of aw pve, when you play a heavily armored mbt and get constantly hit from autocannons busting your "weak" turret ring while driving down a hill at full speed and from 500+ meter distance.



GalmTwo #16 Posted 21 July 2020 - 10:22 AM

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Hey, bots are free exp, so why not milk them?

Echotun #17 Posted 21 July 2020 - 10:25 AM

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View Postmalachi6, on 20 July 2020 - 04:57 PM, said:

I love made-up statistics and bold [edited]assertions made based on belief rather than fact.  


facts are so... inconvenient :D



Only_Slightly_Bent #18 Posted 21 July 2020 - 11:03 AM

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All that will happen is that the tomato players will be carried by the bots. They still won't learn anything...

OneSock #19 Posted 21 July 2020 - 11:21 AM

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View PostOnly_Slightly_Bent, on 21 July 2020 - 11:03 AM, said:

All that will happen is that the tomato players will be carried by the bots. They still won't learn anything...

 

Yes, I think that's the point. They don't and won't learn, but BOTs can be programmed with basic map tactics and behaviours. The idea is to balance the teams out a bit more so we don't have the situation where MM picks a total steamroll, which happens quite a lot.



Shivva #20 Posted 21 July 2020 - 03:48 PM

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View PostRobbie_T, on 20 July 2020 - 11:14 AM, said:

I have another option

put those 44% 30k battle tomatoes on a special server where they can draw every match together.

 


The irony.,...oh dear.






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