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Would the game benefit (in the long run) from a Map Designer?


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Poll: Would the game benefit (in the long run) from a Map Designer? (21 members have cast votes)

You have to complete 250 battle in order to participate this poll.

What do you think of this idea?

  1. It is a good idea. Bring it in! (10 votes [47.62%])

    Percentage of vote: 47.62%

  2. It is a good idea, but some changes could make it even better. (5 votes [23.81%])

    Percentage of vote: 23.81%

  3. It is not a good idea, but maybe with some major changes it would be good. (2 votes [9.52%])

    Percentage of vote: 9.52%

  4. It is not a good idea. I disagree with it. (4 votes [19.05%])

    Percentage of vote: 19.05%

  5. I don't really care and/or have an opinion about this. (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

Would you try this out yourself if it would be available?

  1. Yes. (11 votes [45.83%])

    Percentage of vote: 45.83%

  2. No. (8 votes [33.33%])

    Percentage of vote: 33.33%

  3. Maybe... (4 votes [16.67%])

    Percentage of vote: 16.67%

  4. I don't really care. (1 vote [4.17%])

    Percentage of vote: 4.17%

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mantazzo #1 Posted 20 July 2020 - 12:44 PM

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Before I start - this idea was in my mind for quite some time. I'll try to explain as best as I can what I'm trying to say.

 

I think many of us can say that the current maps are a bit...meh at times. Empire's Border was poor, Paris still sucks, and new maps are coming in slowly...
So what if WG would give us the tools for making new maps ourselves? I think a lot of people would like that and we could see some great new maps introduced into the game.

The Map Designer (MD in short) could have a few options:

  • Different sizes: 800x800 for low tiers (for example) and 1000x1000 for all tiers (with maybe 1200x1200 max size), up to 1500x1500 for Grand Battles (though I think that could be up to 2000x2000) and 3000x3000 for Frontline;
  • Custom Assets: Can't find a suitable asset which is already in the game? Import it and use it in your map;
  • Custom Limits: Set which hills can be climbable and which will slide you down;
  • Environmental freedom: Create a map in any environment you want or find attractive.

Any custom maps could be tried out in the game in the private lobbies with your friends (or with bots, if that works?) - though map downloading would need to be implemented into the game. Also, custom maps could be published into a certain website with more info - map name, approximate map location (where is the battle happening in the world), relevant story to the map (why this map was made or what exactly happened that the fight is happening in your map, etc - to make it more interesting), what gamemodes you made it for and so on. WG could even do some sort of map appreciation events, where 1-2 most popular maps in the website would get a chance to be in the game - that way we would get more maps in rotation, and maybe even get some new iconic permanent maps (same as Dust 2 is iconic in CS).

 

Hopefully my thoughts make sense. If not - please ask me, I'll try to answer or have a discussion.

What do you guys think - should WG release a map Designer?


Edited by mantazzo, 20 July 2020 - 12:48 PM.


Homer_J #2 Posted 20 July 2020 - 12:50 PM

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A huge problem I can see is that as the only server is the one run by WG then WG will be responsible for these maps so they will have to vet them to ensure there is no minute detail which might get them into trouble.  And vetting a map when you had no control over it's production is a lot of effort.

jabster #3 Posted 20 July 2020 - 12:57 PM

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View PostHomer_J, on 20 July 2020 - 11:50 AM, said:

A huge problem I can see is that as the only server is the one run by WG then WG will be responsible for these maps so they will have to vet them to ensure there is no minute detail which might get them into trouble.  And vetting a map when you had no control over it's production is a lot of effort.


The problem I see is it’s vs. its. That could just be me though :P



qpranger #4 Posted 20 July 2020 - 12:58 PM

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I thought the OP meant a person, a map designer vacancy, that definitely needs filling at WG.

mantazzo #5 Posted 20 July 2020 - 01:16 PM

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View Postqpranger, on 20 July 2020 - 02:58 PM, said:

I thought the OP meant a person, a map designer vacancy, that definitely needs filling at WG.


Well, this *may* be one of the reasons I made this post, as the current designers don't do a very good job IMO... :D

 

But seriously, I think we could get some very creative and good maps from the community. Though I'm not saying WG shouldn't try and make maps anymore.



snowlywhite #6 Posted 20 July 2020 - 01:18 PM

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ok, maybe graphics ain't my strong point. But... designing a WoT map alone... in your spare time?

 

the game will be dead before you're done.

 

the current map design is bad because the design philosophy they have is bad. They're trying to make maps playable by all classes. Which is nigh on impossible given the size constraints.

 

But someone doing map design alone, with whatever custom proprietary map designer WoT has(which probably is ancient and full of arcane contradictions as it was probably done in house) - fat chance. And then, hiring some 10 ppl. to review all the bad designs various ppl. submit?

 

With their beta testing(and I'm sure they do a ton) they still have invisible rocks, bad bushes and so on. And you expect one person to be able to do a better job... Again, in some custom tool, probably started 15 years ago.



Rati_Festa #7 Posted 20 July 2020 - 01:59 PM

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View Postsnowlywhite, on 20 July 2020 - 12:18 PM, said:

ok, maybe graphics ain't my strong point. But... designing a WoT map alone... in your spare time?

 

the game will be dead before you're done.

 

the current map design is bad because the design philosophy they have is bad. They're trying to make maps playable by all classes. Which is nigh on impossible given the size constraints.

 

But someone doing map design alone, with whatever custom proprietary map designer WoT has(which probably is ancient and full of arcane contradictions as it was probably done in house) - fat chance. And then, hiring some 10 ppl. to review all the bad designs various ppl. submit?

 

With their beta testing(and I'm sure they do a ton) they still have invisible rocks, bad bushes and so on. And you expect one person to be able to do a better job... Again, in some custom tool, probably started 15 years ago.

 

People wouldn't necessarily design maps on their own, clans for instance could make maps in teams. Some of the maps in the game are truly awful, the concept of each map no matter how small needs to have a set place for each class is dumbing down the game. WG's map department needs a fresh mandate.

 

Having some kind of portal with a basic map designer tool to place feedback from the players to WG would be a starting point, I've been playing Skyrim again recently and some of the modding/player content on that is amazing. Just sifting through the ideas of the players may give the map designers some new ideas, as they quite clearly need it looking at the recent map offerings.



Bordhaw #8 Posted 20 July 2020 - 02:34 PM

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View Postsnowlywhite, on 20 July 2020 - 12:18 PM, said:

the current map design is bad because the design philosophy they have is bad. They're trying to make maps playable by all classes. Which is nigh on impossible given the size constraints.

 

WG can already restrict certain maps to certain tiers and even the players can restrict certain maps. I think restricting certain tank classes on certain maps is a good suggestion.

 

 

 



24doom24 #9 Posted 20 July 2020 - 06:22 PM

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In fairness I really really like the new pearl river redesign. It looks spectacular. 

 

They need to start reintroducing old maps now instead of throwing in turds like minsk. 



Balc0ra #10 Posted 20 July 2020 - 06:37 PM

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Been suggested 1000 times. Tbh it can go both ways then too as it does now. Sure other games have done this, CS is one. And even then, the devs took the maps the community made and had a massive clean up to "balance it" vs the initial design. So even if you made a map. I suspect testing would show flaws with the testers, and would still have multiple designs taking it away from your initial idea. As the overall issue with your idea I suspect would be that WG designs maps with more than one class and style in mind usually. If most made a map, it would be for their style and class preference more so than not. Making it... tricky to find that one gem in there. 



Solstad1069 #11 Posted 20 July 2020 - 06:43 PM

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View PostHomer_J, on 20 July 2020 - 12:50 PM, said:

A huge problem I can see is that as the only server is the one run by WG then WG will be responsible for these maps so they will have to vet them to ensure there is no minute detail which might get them into trouble.  And vetting a map when you had no control over it's production is a lot of effort.

What WG should have done ages ago was to use their test server to test new maps, realease a few and get player feedbacks.



LCpl_Jones #12 Posted 20 July 2020 - 09:18 PM

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it'll never work because wg are too scared to open up their server code, you can't make a map without being able to run it 'offline' so to speak to test it as you develop it

mpf1959 #13 Posted 22 July 2020 - 01:35 PM

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I would redesign Ensk at 300m scale, and make it exclusively for tiers 9 and 10. :playing:

ONE77ZERO13 #14 Posted 22 July 2020 - 02:23 PM

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You could create a custom game mode.

 

Add the option to play custom maps & change parameters such as :

tank speed

vehicle handling

hp values

armor values

shell velocity

gun accuracy & reload and damage values

 

all the ingredients you need to making a railgun insta gib mode like in unreal tournament times

 

just random thoughts..

 

probably not what Wargaming wants their game to be like.. but i dnno just remember that a Warcraft 3 custom map & mode gave us League of Legends and Dota.



aleksot #15 Posted 22 July 2020 - 02:50 PM

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View Postmpf1959, on 22 July 2020 - 12:35 PM, said:

I would redesign Ensk at 300m scale, and make it exclusively for tiers 9 and 10. :playing:


and make it Grand Battle! What a great idea. (Ensk removed from map rotation :P)

tank speed 100

vehicle handling +100

hp values 10.000

armor values 300

shell velocity 2000

gun accuracy & reload and damage values 0.1 10sec 300dmg/shot


Edited by aleksot, 22 July 2020 - 02:51 PM.


captainpigg #16 Posted 22 July 2020 - 03:07 PM

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What's the bet that the player made maps will be tailor made to suit their favorite tanks? 

WingedArchon #17 Posted 22 July 2020 - 06:00 PM

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View Postsnowlywhite, on 20 July 2020 - 01:18 PM, said:

ok, maybe graphics ain't my strong point. But... designing a WoT map alone... in your spare time?

 

the game will be dead before you're done.

 

the current map design is bad because the design philosophy they have is bad. They're trying to make maps playable by all classes. Which is nigh on impossible given the size constraints.

 

But someone doing map design alone, with whatever custom proprietary map designer WoT has(which probably is ancient and full of arcane contradictions as it was probably done in house) - fat chance. And then, hiring some 10 ppl. to review all the bad designs various ppl. submit?

 

With their beta testing(and I'm sure they do a ton) they still have invisible rocks, bad bushes and so on. And you expect one person to be able to do a better job... Again, in some custom tool, probably started 15 years ago.

You really underestimate the power of a community when it comes to these kind of things.
Short answer: Yes, there's bound to be a few guys who could actually do it singlehandedly. And then there's also teams that would work on it like a project.
I'm in several communities for other games and if you knew what they can produce... they actually do produce work that would top that of the actual developers.



snowlywhite #18 Posted 22 July 2020 - 07:21 PM

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I'm not denying that. But for all the games I've played which had good mods, the game itself - from the start - was planned to be easily modable.

 

Which probably isn't the case here. And changing the design philosophy of a game 10 years in production... good luck



MrKrotchy #19 Posted 23 July 2020 - 11:05 PM

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Oh absolutely! I already have some ideas about what I'd make.

Like putting a roof over all the maps so arty can't fire at anything and deforesting all the base camping locations to prevent end game base camping stalemates...



Mike_Mckay #20 Posted 27 July 2020 - 01:33 AM

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It  doesnt need a map designer, the maps themselves look pretty good, all they NEED is for each half to be an exactly mirror image of  the other so the MM cant control  who is  more likely to win or lose by which spawn it puts them on




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