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Gun Dispersion


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Lee3452 #1 Posted 24 July 2020 - 05:00 PM

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Where is the gun dispersion factored in. If I am in my T-10 and fire does the recoil raise or lower the barrel before the shot leaves the barrel. When looking at the aiming circle can the round immediately jump 36cms outside of the circle the moment it exits the barrel. Where is the 36cm in 100m's start. Is it at the centre or edge of aiming circle. As I have noticed this a few times that the round immediately leaves the aiming circle . It has just happened again.



24doom24 #2 Posted 24 July 2020 - 05:09 PM

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That's the ballistic trajectory which is automatically calculated. 

Lee3452 #3 Posted 24 July 2020 - 05:19 PM

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View Post24doom24, on 24 July 2020 - 04:09 PM, said:

That's the ballistic trajectory which is automatically calculated.

But where from? 36cms from leaving the barrel or 36cms at 100ms with it being proportional as the distance increases. Or is it from the recoil and not the ballistic trajectory of the round. ie its the barrel moving that throws of the trajectory and not the actual physics calculation of the round. I know it's not a sim but it has to have some consistency. Otherwise if I shoot at a target 200.01m's away the dispersion could be108 cms and not the 72cms it should be.



ChestyMorgan #4 Posted 24 July 2020 - 05:40 PM

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View PostLee3452, on 24 July 2020 - 05:19 PM, said:

But where from? 36cms from leaving the barrel or 36cms at 100ms with it being proportional as the distance increases. Or is it from the recoil and not the ballistic trajectory of the round. ie its the barrel moving that throws of the trajectory and not the actual physics calculation of the round. I know it's not a sim but it has to have some consistency. Otherwise if I shoot at a target 200.01m's away the dispersion could be108 cms and not the 72cms it should be.

Ever play that kiddies classic party game pin the tail on the donkey? I suspect the dev's spent far too much time playing the Russian version of it & have used it as a basis for RNG.

 

5 shots aimed at the same spot, 4 go all over the circle. The 5th goes where aimed. That is with a vehicle with a supposed 60% accuracy rate. Nothing like a bit of server side manipulation to shaft your performance in a game is there? 



Gruff_ #5 Posted 24 July 2020 - 05:48 PM

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View PostLee3452, on 24 July 2020 - 05:00 PM, said:

Where is the gun dispersion factored in. If I am in my T-10 and fire does the recoil raise or lower the barrel before the shot leaves the barrel. When looking at the aiming circle can the round immediately jump 36cms outside of the circle the moment it exits the barrel. Where is the 36cm in 100m's start. Is it at the centre or edge of aiming circle. As I have noticed this a few times that the round immediately leaves the aiming circle . It has just happened again.


In your option settings turn off dynamic camera and there is no visible recoil from shooting.  I'm perhaps a bit confused to what's being asked but as far as I know the dispersion is calculated from the centre of your aim reticule, the further the distance to your target the more it will deviate from that point, obviously letting the gun fully aim will help keep it on track.  


Edited by Gruff_, 24 July 2020 - 05:48 PM.


Ricox #6 Posted 24 July 2020 - 05:50 PM

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The calculation is based on the center of your aiming reticle the moment you send the command to fire. If you fired a second round right after the first, then you'd get less accuracy due to "recoil" (AKA the aiming circle getting extra dispersion due to firing the gun, the values are available on sites like tanks.gg - recoil is not represented in a simulator-esque way).

 

The dispersion is proportional to the distance, pretty sure dynamically calculated along the distance. So 200 meters is double dispersion, 300 meters triple (from the original) etc.

 

Do note that the client-side reticle might not always align with the server-side reticle. What often happens in cases where people see the shell leave the reticle is that you fired the moment your own reticle got to its smallest point, but the server hadn't caught up due to network latency. Earlier versions of the game allowed some shots to leave the reticle, but that was changed.

 

View PostChestyMorgan, on 24 July 2020 - 04:40 PM, said:

Ever play that kiddies classic party game pin the tail on the donkey? I suspect the dev's spent far too much time playing the Russian version of it & have used it as a basis for RNG.

 

5 shots aimed at the same spot, 4 go all over the circle. The 5th goes where aimed. That is with a vehicle with a supposed 60% accuracy rate. Nothing like a bit of server side manipulation to shaft your performance in a game is there? 

 

Or you could try to understand statistics, which would tell you that it's completely possible for a streak of misses even with 0.1% chance. 5 shots is not a valid sample size. No one cares about your game performance, people have better things to do than to rig the game against you (and judging by your performance, you're rigging the game against yourself).


Edited by Ricox, 24 July 2020 - 05:51 PM.


Lee3452 #7 Posted 24 July 2020 - 06:11 PM

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How much latency are we talking about as my aiming circle had just stabilised and the round ploughed into the rubble about 2m,s in front of my barrel.  The replay shows I had 51fps and the tracer is central to the aiming mark.

Galaxy_class #8 Posted 24 July 2020 - 06:27 PM

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View PostLee3452, on 24 July 2020 - 05:00 PM, said:

Where is the gun dispersion factored in. If I am in my T-10 and fire does the recoil raise or lower the barrel before the shot leaves the barrel. When looking at the aiming circle can the round immediately jump 36cms outside of the circle the moment it exits the barrel. Where is the 36cm in 100m's start. Is it at the centre or edge of aiming circle. As I have noticed this a few times that the round immediately leaves the aiming circle . It has just happened again.

 

This will answer most of your questions:

 



facmanpob #9 Posted 24 July 2020 - 07:03 PM

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13Dosciple is pretty good actually. He deserves more subscribers.

Bulldog_Drummond #10 Posted 24 July 2020 - 07:58 PM

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When JP Morgan was asked his opinion on where the markets were going his answer was "They will fluctuate."

Lee3452 #11 Posted 24 July 2020 - 08:13 PM

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View PostGalaxy_class, on 24 July 2020 - 05:27 PM, said:

 

This will answer most of your questions:

 

Thanks. Have watched the video which confirms that my shot should have hit the target and not ploughed into the rubble. So it seems that shots don't always conform consistently excluding RNG. But I guess it will be another working as intended and not a bug in the system.

I would put up pictures but it does not seem to want to upload them.

Replay if anyone's interested. Shot is at 12:02.

http://wotreplays.eu/site/5483383#ruinberg-lee3452-t-10https://imgur.com/ce7lCdG

https://imgur.com/ce7lCdG



Galaxy_class #12 Posted 24 July 2020 - 08:56 PM

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View PostLee3452, on 24 July 2020 - 08:13 PM, said:

Thanks. Have watched the video which confirms that my shot should have hit the target and not ploughed into the rubble. So it seems that shots don't always conform consistently excluding RNG. But I guess it will be another working as intended and not a bug in the system.

I would put up pictures but it does not seem to want to upload them.

Replay if anyone's interested. Shot is at 12:02.

http://wotreplays.eu/site/5483383#ruinberg-lee3452-t-10https://imgur.com/ce7lCdG

https://imgur.com/ce7lCdG

 

He stated in YouTube chat that 4.2% of shots fall outside the aim circle. For those shots, the RNG is re-rolled with a flat distribution so some rare shots can fall a fair distance outside the circle.



Lee3452 #13 Posted 24 July 2020 - 09:03 PM

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Missed that bit. But still would not expect it at 2-3m,s from the end of the barrel.

Slyspy #14 Posted 25 July 2020 - 01:06 AM

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View PostLee3452, on 24 July 2020 - 09:03 PM, said:

Missed that bit. But still would not expect it at 2-3m,s from the end of the barrel.

 

Worth noting that in WoT the "projectile" leaves the gun at the base of the barrel not the tip. Also latency and packet loss an make what you see different to what actually happened (and your fps is irrelevant in this case).



_Hakkapeliitta_ #15 Posted 25 July 2020 - 04:54 AM

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+-25% RNG and have fun after that when you try to calculate those two together  :D

wEight_Tanker #16 Posted 25 July 2020 - 09:41 AM

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Apparently, shots do land higher "where the aiming circle moves for 1 second". I've had an argument with a usual brainlet on this forum about the aiming circle thing being a visual bug and that the shell always lands where you aim nonetheless whether that "visual bug" appears. I'll make sure I take some replays with me even though no one will accept it as proof of "replays being inaccurate" or "your ping is fluctuatiing, we can't tell if it actually happened while you were playing". It's complete BS and the OP was specifically talking about the aiming reticle and not the gun preparing for a ballistic trajectory. It already gets calculated as you are aiming. Why the aiming circle aims lower, but fires higher resulting in incoordination, thanks to these debatophiliac gremlins all over the forums, will never be answered.

Misago #17 Posted 25 July 2020 - 06:49 PM

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Am I the only one who thinks certain tanks have a more pronounced "tendency"?

My M4A1 Rev has 0.32 accuracy and very high shell velocity, and I feel it tends to drop many shots below the aim circle.



Dava_117 #18 Posted 25 July 2020 - 07:21 PM

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View PostLee3452, on 24 July 2020 - 08:13 PM, said:

Thanks. Have watched the video which confirms that my shot should have hit the target and not ploughed into the rubble. So it seems that shots don't always conform consistently excluding RNG. But I guess it will be another working as intended and not a bug in the system.

I would put up pictures but it does not seem to want to upload them.

Replay if anyone's interested. Shot is at 12:02.

http://wotreplays.eu/site/5483383#ruinberg-lee3452-t-10https://imgur.com/ce7lCdG

https://imgur.com/ce7lCdG

 

Wich graphic settings do you use? Those pics loos like it's very low quality graphic, meaning that the rubble you see is not actually the rubble the server see. Bet the shot didn't went out of the reticule but impacted a piece of rubble you don't see.



Dava_117 #19 Posted 25 July 2020 - 07:31 PM

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I watched the replay and this is how the rubble pile looks like on my mid-high settings:

 

shot_332.jpg

 

As you can see there is a huge piece of concrete just in the middle of the crossair. Very likely you hit that. You can also see it's actually solid as the penetration indicator don't light up.

Definitely a graphic problem.






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