Jump to content


is6/kv5/112/wz111 buff


  • Please log in to reply
19 replies to this topic

saxsan4 #1 Posted 27 July 2020 - 06:28 PM

    Brigadier

  • Player
  • 26555 battles
  • 4,906
  • [-WR--] -WR--
  • Member since:
    11-08-2011

Hello,

 

these tanks I think need a little love

 

The other tier 8 pref mm tanks are better and are perfectly balanced but these need some love

 

this Is what id do 

 

IS6 - Buff AP pen to 205 and apcr pen at 240 

 

Buff dispersion to 0.39 (still worse than is3)

 

for KV5 id buff dispersion  to 0.37 and increase hp to 1,800 and increase accuracy when turning turret and hull

 

For 112 and wz-111 id buff ap pen to 205 and dispersion to 0.39 for 112 and 0.38 for wz-111

 

what do you guys think?


Edited by saxsan4, 27 July 2020 - 06:59 PM.


Infryndiira #2 Posted 27 July 2020 - 06:37 PM

    Staff Sergeant

  • Player
  • 24461 battles
  • 450
  • [GUP] GUP
  • Member since:
    09-20-2013

I am not qualified to talk about all of them, as I only own the KV-5. But its similarities to the IS-6 might allow me to give a couple of cents about that one as well.

 

The KV-5, at the very least, sometimes kinda works. Its armour is okay. Its mobility is okay (and due for an indirect buff thanks to the upcoming Turbocharger & Additional Grousers becoming equipment options for it). What is not okay is its gun.

 

It's not a matter of reload or DPM. It's not a matter of dispersion either. It's the fact that it has 167 186 mm standard penetration and less special/gold penetration (219 mm) than most Tier 8 heavy tanks (and even some mediums!) have standard penetration! And it's not like I can't make it work, but for the love of god, at least buff the gold shells a little bit. It's not like I spam them. I can make the AP work. But if I load APCR, I really, really need the pen. Except that if you need that pen, you might as well load HE, because your "high penetration" special shells usually can't do anything to the targets your standard shells can't hurt either.

 

TL;DR: Buff its penetration. Even if it is by a little bit. Pwetty pweez.

 

I imagine the IS-6 is in a similar situation. Not sure if I'd want 250 pen HEAT or not, as that's quite literally Tier X penetration levels (even if it's for standard ammo) but, as these tanks have preferential match making, they should have somewhat gutted guns, that's fine. But not as gutted as now.


Edited by Infryndiira, 27 July 2020 - 06:38 PM.


Lt_Pfaffenbach #3 Posted 27 July 2020 - 06:44 PM

    Lance-corporal

  • Player
  • 25433 battles
  • 72
  • Member since:
    09-12-2015

View Postsaxsan4, on 27 July 2020 - 06:28 PM, said:

 

what do you guys think?

 

i think you have listed all pref-mm tanks there, correct me if i'm wrong. also, here i'm even more sure, they got buff last year (different kind to different of them: armour, penetration, gun stats, etc.), as WG wanted to think about removing pref-mm from them. anyway, as always with consequent actions from WG, they got buffed but never lost pref-mm - who would have thought?!

 

and now you want to give them bigger buff? rather not good idea.



saxsan4 #4 Posted 27 July 2020 - 06:50 PM

    Brigadier

  • Player
  • 26555 battles
  • 4,906
  • [-WR--] -WR--
  • Member since:
    11-08-2011

View PostInfryndiira, on 27 July 2020 - 05:37 PM, said:

I am not qualified to talk about all of them, as I only own the KV-5. But its similarities to the IS-6 might allow me to give a couple of cents about that one as well.

 

The KV-5, at the very least, sometimes kinda works. Its armour is okay. Its mobility is okay (and due for an indirect buff thanks to the upcoming Turbocharger & Additional Grousers becoming equipment options for it). What is not okay is its gun.

 

It's not a matter of reload or DPM. It's not a matter of dispersion either. It's the fact that it has 167 186 mm standard penetration and less special/gold penetration (219 mm) than most Tier 8 heavy tanks (and even some mediums!) have standard penetration! And it's not like I can't make it work, but for the love of god, at least buff the gold shells a little bit. It's not like I spam them. I can make the AP work. But if I load APCR, I really, really need the pen. Except that if you need that pen, you might as well load HE, because your "high penetration" special shells usually can't do anything to the targets your standard shells can't hurt either.

 

TL;DR: Buff its penetration. Even if it is by a little bit. Pwetty pweez.

 

I imagine the IS-6 is in a similar situation. Not sure if I'd want 250 pen HEAT or not, as that's quite literally Tier X penetration levels (even if it's for standard ammo) but, as these tanks have preferential match making, they should have somewhat gutted guns, that's fine. But not as gutted as now.


112 already has 250 HEAT pen and is the Chinese counterpart to is6

 

keeping the kv5 pen low but making it accuracy better keeps it as the low pen high dpm tank able to shoot weak spots, 186 pen I think works with god accuracy and I dont struggle with pen on it



Balc0ra #5 Posted 27 July 2020 - 06:50 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 77944 battles
  • 23,765
  • [WALL] WALL
  • Member since:
    07-10-2012

Personally, I like the fact the Chinese have HEAT and the IS-6 don't due to shell mechanics etc. But yeah, their base pen is a tad to low to be effective on the HT lane most matches. It's rather rare my IS-6 has a 100% gold free round on the HT lane these days. It can on the medium lane. 186 pen is not ideal when most new armor on the tier 8 HT lane has 220mm weak spots. They wanted to buff the KV-5 to past 200, but wanted to remove the pref MM due to it. But showed right after with the T26E4 that you can have pref MM and 200 + pen and still make it work. 

 

Considering they will buff the T32 up to past 200 with a DPM buff. I don't see 205 as a major issue with the rest of the stats as is, nor the 250 gold pen. As the T26E4 has 258 gold pen. And for those that recall, the Chinse 175 pen guns had 300 HEAT pen when they did arrive, inc the IS-2 at tier 7 before they got 250. The STG got 212/248 pen. So having the same APCR shells at it would be good enough too. As in a massive buff either way. 

 

But, who knows. They might already be in their 2.0 balance plans... again. 


Edited by Balc0ra, 27 July 2020 - 06:51 PM.


rogash1775 #6 Posted 27 July 2020 - 06:51 PM

    Staff Sergeant

  • Player
  • 33826 battles
  • 470
  • [RF_] RF_
  • Member since:
    03-17-2011

The tanks are fine vs t6/t7 tanks :trollface:

 

Preferential matchmaking tanks seem to face more t8's and t9's in games now. The mentioned tanks have horrible gun bloom and aim time making them not enjoyable to play when you need to hit week spots to pen etc.

 They should reduce the gun blooms so weakspots can be hit for old premium tanks. fcm 50t etc

examples of power creep old tank vs new tank

t44/100 (100mm gun) vs prima victoria (83mm?). The below results totally make sense for a smaller caliber gun :trollface: - making the prima victoria a piece of poopy to play


Edited by rogash1775, 27 July 2020 - 06:53 PM.


saxsan4 #7 Posted 27 July 2020 - 06:55 PM

    Brigadier

  • Player
  • 26555 battles
  • 4,906
  • [-WR--] -WR--
  • Member since:
    11-08-2011

View PostLt_Pfaffenbach, on 27 July 2020 - 05:44 PM, said:

 

i think you have listed all pref-mm tanks there, correct me if i'm wrong. also, here i'm even more sure, they got buff last year (different kind to different of them: armour, penetration, gun stats, etc.), as WG wanted to think about removing pref-mm from them. anyway, as always with consequent actions from WG, they got buffed but never lost pref-mm - who would have thought?!

 

and now you want to give them bigger buff? rather not good idea.


nope, the super Pershing, Mutant, Jagtiger 88 , type 59, fCM 50 t all have pref mm 

 

but the super Pershing already gets highier pen than these tanks do and its a medium

17:58 Added after 3 minute

View PostBalc0ra, on 27 July 2020 - 05:50 PM, said:

Personally, I like the fact the Chinese have HEAT and the IS-6 don't due to shell mechanics etc. But yeah, their base pen is a tad to low to be effective on the HT lane most matches. It's rather rare my IS-6 has a 100% gold free round on the HT lane these days. It can on the medium lane. 186 pen is not ideal when most new armor on the tier 8 HT lane has 220mm weak spots. They wanted to buff the KV-5 to past 200, but wanted to remove the pref MM due to it. But showed right after with the T26E4 that you can have pref MM and 200 + pen and still make it work. 

 

Considering they will buff the T32 up to past 200 with a DPM buff. I don't see 205 as a major issue with the rest of the stats as is, nor the 250 gold pen. As the T26E4 has 258 gold pen. And for those that recall, the Chinse 175 pen guns had 300 HEAT pen when they did arrive, inc the IS-2 at tier 7 before they got 250. The STG got 212/248 pen. So having the same APCR shells at it would be good enough too. As in a massive buff either way. 

 

But, who knows. They might already be in their 2.0 balance plans... again. 


that is true about is6, we could give the is6 apr gold pen at 240 , then it keeps the difference 



Infryndiira #8 Posted 27 July 2020 - 07:02 PM

    Staff Sergeant

  • Player
  • 24461 battles
  • 450
  • [GUP] GUP
  • Member since:
    09-20-2013

View Postsaxsan4, on 27 July 2020 - 07:55 PM, said:

but the super Pershing already gets highier pen than these tanks do and its a medium

A medium living next to McDonalds.

View Postsaxsan4, on 27 July 2020 - 07:50 PM, said:

keeping the kv5 pen low but making it accuracy better keeps it as the low pen high dpm tank able to shoot weak spots, 186 pen I think works with god accuracy and I dont struggle with pen on it

Good theory but it's not likely to work. Even at 0.37m dispersion, with 186/219 pen you can't reliably penetrate the "weakspots" of a lot of heavy tanks, and since the gun is only 105mm it can't overmatch roofs either. By comparison, you have glaring weakspots that can be penetrated with little to no effort without even requiring gold ammo anymore.

 

The KV-5 doesn't even have ramming going for it anymore, considering the E 75TS can pull it off better (as it has a higher top speed, better power-to-weight ratio, better terrain resistances, and even better dispersion, alpha damage, and penetration at the cost of slightly longer reload and being "just 20t lighter...)

 

186mm pen works for medium tanks. But medium tanks can flank, even if a little bit. The KV-5 has a hard time reaching its top speed (even with a Removed Speed Governor), it is terrible at turning, and unreliable at penetrating weak spots (assuming it can even hit them).



Balc0ra #9 Posted 27 July 2020 - 07:12 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 77944 battles
  • 23,765
  • [WALL] WALL
  • Member since:
    07-10-2012

View PostInfryndiira, on 27 July 2020 - 07:02 PM, said:

A medium living next to McDonalds.

 

Well back in the day the SP had 170 pen before it got buffed the first time. The reasoning for the T26E4 buff back then was that he takes the role of a HT fairly often when your main armor fails... so he needs to have pen to take over that role. So they buffed it to 192. Basically giving it more pen than the pref MM tanks that has that as their main role, on a tank they wanted it to have it as a secondary role. The same reasoning was given to buff it again, to even go past the +2 MM US tier 8 mediums. WG logic. 



MrKrotchy #10 Posted 27 July 2020 - 07:31 PM

    Corporal

  • Player
  • 25563 battles
  • 137
  • Member since:
    12-08-2014

If you go over 190mm then what's the point of regular MM tanks that have 200-215 but can still see T10.

 

IS6 has pretty nice DPM for its alpha so it still works with 186. Bonus for being a 122mm so you can overmatch some tanks. I'd rather see its mobility buffed a bit. Like top speed 40 and extra 2 HP/t

SP was good with 192 and buffing it to over 200 was kinda unnecessary but then again it has bad alpha and bad DPM so that's kind of its balancing point. Then again it has the stupid 258 APCR shells...

JgTig88 is a turret less TD so 212 is kind of a pain sometimes but at least you can go with quantity instead of quality.

 

Didn't really play others. I do want an FCM for some reason...



saxsan4 #11 Posted 27 July 2020 - 07:35 PM

    Brigadier

  • Player
  • 26555 battles
  • 4,906
  • [-WR--] -WR--
  • Member since:
    11-08-2011

View PostMrKrotchy, on 27 July 2020 - 06:31 PM, said:

If you go over 190mm then what's the point of regular MM tanks that have 200-215 but can still see T10.

 

IS6 has pretty nice DPM for its alpha so it still works with 186. Bonus for being a 122mm so you can overmatch some tanks. I'd rather see its mobility buffed a bit. Like top speed 40 and extra 2 HP/t

SP was good with 192 and buffing it to over 200 was kinda unnecessary but then again it has bad alpha and bad DPM so that's kind of its balancing point. Then again it has the stupid 258 APCR shells...

JgTig88 is a turret less TD so 212 is kind of a pain sometimes but at least you can go with quantity instead of quality.

 

Didn't really play others. I do want an FCM for some reason...


because the other pref mm tanks all have over 200 pen

 

FCM 50 t gets 212

M6A2E1 Gets 204 (with excellent armour and decent dmg)

Super Pershing gets 202

jagtiger 88 gets 212

 

speed buff for is6 is pointless , it doesnt struggle to reach its spots it struggles to pen even tier 8s

 

so there is no 190mm rule for pref mm tanks


Edited by saxsan4, 27 July 2020 - 07:37 PM.


Bennie182 #12 Posted 27 July 2020 - 10:48 PM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 55264 battles
  • 1,801
  • Member since:
    03-13-2012

It would be awesome to see these tanks indeed get a buff on penetration like around 200. Tech tree tanks are clearly better then these, so it makes sense in the way premiums are introduced.

I got WZ-111 as Frontline reward and this is the point where I usually struggle with, partly because of the poor accuracy. I am a player that despises the fact that special ammo or however you want to call it, exists for credits. The time when it was for gold was the time when things were balanced in my opinion. I think a change like this will make tanks like this one, 112 and IS-6 more competitive again and better for earning credits.



wAr_God_11 #13 Posted 28 July 2020 - 12:05 AM

    Corporal

  • Player
  • 27394 battles
  • 147
  • [SYFY] SYFY
  • Member since:
    08-28-2017
most of the old premiums need pen buff at least, around 200+ ish if not the other parameters, mostly will be playable then , plus i don;t think there's need to be balancing after the pen buff since its pretty common for tier 8.

MrKrotchy #14 Posted 28 July 2020 - 03:30 AM

    Corporal

  • Player
  • 25563 battles
  • 137
  • Member since:
    12-08-2014

View Postsaxsan4, on 27 July 2020 - 07:35 PM, said:


because the other pref mm tanks all have over 200 pen

 

FCM 50 t gets 212

M6A2E1 Gets 204 (with excellent armour and decent dmg)

Super Pershing gets 202

jagtiger 88 gets 212

 

speed buff for is6 is pointless , it doesnt struggle to reach its spots it struggles to pen even tier 8s

 

so there is no 190mm rule for pref mm tanks

 

FCM has 0 armor and 240 alpha

Mutant has 1.6k DPM 320 alpha

SP has 240 alpha and 1.8k DPM

JgTig88 has no turret and 240 alpha

 

IS6 on the other hand has 2k DPM with a 122mm 390 alpha boomstick. Just go to the medium side and molest all those sub 215 pen meds with puny 240 alpha guns. Most of them don't even have 2k base DPM.

 

And even most T8 non TD, standard MM tanks with 390-400 alpha have low ROF and very mediocre pen ranging between 200 and 218

 

Revalorise 200

STG 212

ISM  212

AMX 65 218

 

So putting it at 190 AP pen would already contest the M4Rev, a slow medium tank with no armor and no PMM.

 

So for IS6 I'd rather see something else buffed than pen going over 190, like for eg:

Low top speed

Turret roof overmatch

Gun mantlet weakspot



StronkiTonki #15 Posted 28 July 2020 - 06:19 AM

    Lieutenant

  • Clan Commander
  • 36343 battles
  • 1,658
  • [T0AST] T0AST
  • Member since:
    05-27-2011

They should at least be able to pen the LFP of other tanks with standard ammo, especially their own tier...

And considering 3 of these are derpy 122mm's, it's already tedius enough to even hit a weakspot.



Thejagdpanther #16 Posted 28 July 2020 - 07:39 AM

    Major General

  • Player
  • 40235 battles
  • 5,070
  • [TKBS] TKBS
  • Member since:
    07-16-2012

No.

They just need the pref MM to work.

 

Nowadays ending in a monotier 8 with those tanks could be a problem.



Marlekin #17 Posted 28 July 2020 - 07:46 AM

    Brigadier

  • Beta Tester
  • 34141 battles
  • 4,284
  • [BEUKR] BEUKR
  • Member since:
    11-10-2010

View Postsaxsan4, on 27 July 2020 - 06:28 PM, said:

what do you guys think?

 

I think the tanks you mentioned are just not worth it anymore due to the matchmaking changes and powercreep. But do we really need these premiums? 

 

This game has plenty of tier 8 premiums already, one could argue that these tanks could simply be removed from sales alltogether, permanently. Players who own one of these tanks could get the option to sell them for their gold value instead of credits. Only if any of the ingame nations is at risk of having no premium tank for crew training, I would suggest a premium tank being rebalanced to a normal MM version of what it is today. WG owning up to their own powercreep and balance changes would seem fair to me. 

But.. WG is most likely very aware of these premiums having problems these days, but will try to sell you these obsolete premiums for their full price none the less. This makes me believe nothing will change.

 



Blubba #18 Posted 28 July 2020 - 07:47 AM

    Major

  • Player
  • 64012 battles
  • 2,662
  • Member since:
    05-30-2011

I'd buff all of them to 192 pen and buff the soviets premium penetration to something akin to the PRC's (around the 250 mark). I'd give it 6 months and go back and have a look at the stats again.

As a premium tank, they can earn far more so gold round performance plays a much larger role for them. The fact that the IS6 and KV-5's version is so poor tends to make them a victim before the encounter has even begun. 

Increasing the premium penetration wouldn't alter other tanks performances as we already have that with the Chinese versions. The standard pen buff shouldn't alter much either as, once again, it's still subpar but hopefully enough to compete a little better with todays newer tanks.

I might also look at other smaller things on the KV-5 like shell velocity and dispersion values. It is after all a small gun on a BIG platform.

 



rush0620 #19 Posted 28 July 2020 - 11:11 AM

    Corporal

  • Player
  • 25688 battles
  • 199
  • Member since:
    01-03-2012

I have 2000+ battle IS6!

 

186 pen enough tier 6 and tier 7!

Buff 212 mm pen enough only tier 8 balanced only shot weakspots!

Buff 225 mm pen enough tier 9 heavys!

 

I have a dream! Remove tier limit and add BL 9 gun, fine and balanced toy in tier 8. All tier limit underpowered tank have useless very weak standard shell!

 

I have 5000+ battle Type 59! Me best and loved tank WG ever made! This tank totall killed the WG powercreep concept.

 

And 185 mm pen not get +25% rng useless, and tier 9 more problems....

 

Dreams! IS6 and BL9!

 

T54 Mod 1 190 mm pen standard AP! Watch the real life penetrations, D10T have 100 m 208 mm pen not 175 mm and buffed underpowered 190 mm pen!

 

WG pls fix this problems!!!!


Edited by rush0620, 28 July 2020 - 11:43 AM.


rush0620 #20 Posted 28 July 2020 - 12:47 PM

    Corporal

  • Player
  • 25688 battles
  • 199
  • Member since:
    01-03-2012

Only for IS6 lovers!

 

Real life IS6 have 122 mm BL13 not the 122 mm D30! 122 mm D30 only test not more and the D30 same as the D25T +50 m/s more shell speed!

 

 

122-мм пушка БЛ-13, разработанная ОКБ-172 для ИС-6. Именно её часто путают с Д-30

 

https://warspot.ru/15654-ne-popavshiy-v-amplitudu






1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users