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Would the developers pay any attention if we took a vote on it ?


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Poll: Proposed 1.10 change to lower tiers (42 members have cast votes)

You have to complete 250 battle in order to participate this poll.

What would you like to see wargaming do

  1. Continue as they plan to and remove equipment slots for tier I-III and rammer from tiers I - IV (4 votes [9.52%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 9.52%

  2. Leave it as it is with 3 slots and make equipment more affordable to lower tiers (38 votes [90.48%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 90.48%

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HMS_Birmingham #1 Posted 30 July 2020 - 06:40 PM

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As we all know WG propose to make some fairly drastic changes to the lower tiers in removing or reducing equipment slots for tier I - III and also removing the rammer option for tiers V and below.

 

The past couple days I have been playing my newly aquired Tier IV Russian T-28 training a 75% crew up to 100%. I thought I'd pay attention to mm during todays grind and after 22 games I was in a same tier match only 3 times and never top tier. The other 19 battles were roughly 75% tier 4/5/6 battles and the rest of them 4/5. I know the T-28 is fast firing but low alpha can leave this weak armoured huge target exposed so the more shots you can pump in to a target before ducking behind cover the better. It got me thinking how would I cope with out a rammer when faced against mostly higher tier tanks that would have higher alpha guns and rammers. I had hoped to jump on the common test server to get an idea but it appears no-one plays anything other than tier 10 and lower tier games often time out.

 

Just for a bare bones comparrison the T-28 with no equipment at all comparing it to the tier 5 & 6 tank I most often came accross in games being the KV1 no equipment or rammer and T34-85M with no equipment other than rammer. All based on a 100%, 0 skill crew in each tank.

 

T-IV T-28

85 damage a shot

112 pen

540 hit points

340m view range

1970 DPM

 

T-V KV1

160 damage

120 pen

840 hit points

310 view range

2003 DPM

 

T-VI T34-85M

180 damage

144 pen

810 hit points

360 view range

2407 DPM

 

The T-28 was found to be a very capable tank but tracked and up against a T34-85m I would be dead within 3 shots or 8.8 seconds. Return fire in a last ditch attempt to hold my head high in defeat would see me deal only 290 damage (340 with rammer) in return leaving the T34-85m with 519 HP. This is of course if I ever got the oportunity to trade with the T34-85m in the first place as he would have spotted me 20m sooner.

 

My point being is even with a reletivly strong tank like the T-28 you already struggle against higher tier tanks with out having more disadvantages imposed on us with removal of gun rammers or equipment / directive slots. Is it a ploy by war gaming to force free to play players in to higher tiers where earning credits starts to become that bit harder with ever increasing repair and ammo costs. Battle pass requires you to play tiers 6 and above. Tank rewards requires you to play tiers 6 and above. Even the revamped earning of bonds is for tier 10.

 

WG " how can we make more money" "I know lets make tiers 1-5 so unpleasent to play that everyone rushes up the tech tree" clueless players will spam gold in the hope shots will pen $$$$. They sit at the back most games because they get shot $$$$$ the moment they inexperiencely push forward otherwise. All this time the credits are slowly draining from thier banks. What do they then do? Either throw in the towel and play tetris or buy a premium tank and or premium time as they can't bear the thought of returning to the lower tiers to be farmed by tier 6 tanks every match they enter.

 

So I ask to put your thoughts to a vote.

 

Do you believe that removing equipment slots is a good thing and will help new players have a more enjoyable first experience ??

or

Do you believe it will be a big mistake by WG and it will not only make for a disapointing experience for beginners but for those who like the different game styles offered by playing lower tiers. ??


Edited by HMS_Birmingham, 30 July 2020 - 06:43 PM.


saxsan4 #2 Posted 30 July 2020 - 07:02 PM

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Perosnally i think its a good thing, will make it less about who pays for equipment and more on skill of the players, and i grinded every tank at tier 4 without using a single equipment and it was fine, just have to adapt also it means we may retain some more players and have some increase in server 

 

+2mm is the issue though and they really should have it +1/-1 onlybut they wont even entertain the idea so we will have to just make do and mend

 

no amount of complaining will change anything unless its the RU server.


Edited by saxsan4, 30 July 2020 - 07:02 PM.


MaxandChloe4ever #3 Posted 30 July 2020 - 07:11 PM

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I reckon I would be spending around half an hour on each tank deciding what equipment to use after equipment 2.0 is released.

Edited by MaxandChloe4ever, 30 July 2020 - 07:12 PM.


HMS_Birmingham #4 Posted 30 July 2020 - 07:27 PM

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View Postsaxsan4, on 30 July 2020 - 07:02 PM, said:

Perosnally i think its a good thing, will make it less about who pays for equipment and more on skill of the players, and i grinded every tank at tier 4 without using a single equipment and it was fine, just have to adapt also it means we may retain some more players and have some increase in server 

 

+2mm is the issue though and they really should have it +1/-1 onlybut they wont even entertain the idea so we will have to just make do and mend

 

no amount of complaining will change anything unless its the RU server.

 

 

As you say it would be more about skill and not about who got their equipment advantage first. Again as you say this only viable when competing against the same tier or maybe 1 up 1 down. My point being here that in 22 games I saw my tier only 3 and more often than not I was bottom tier against tanks that would have equipment advantages as well as tier advantages which is in honesty not good for new players who are yet to learn the game.


Edited by HMS_Birmingham, 30 July 2020 - 07:28 PM.


saxsan4 #5 Posted 30 July 2020 - 07:47 PM

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View PostHMS_Birmingham, on 30 July 2020 - 06:27 PM, said:

 

 

As you say it would be more about skill and not about who got their equipment advantage first. Again as you say this only viable when competing against the same tier or maybe 1 up 1 down. My point being here that in 22 games I saw my tier only 3 and more often than not I was bottom tier against tanks that would have equipment advantages as well as tier advantages which is in honesty not good for new players who are yet to learn the game.


i agree, which is why the solution is to limit the mm to +1/-1, not allow players with more creditd to kit out equipment, becasue the new players dont equip their tank with equipment regalrdess so to them they areactually at even more of a dissadavantage 



gunslingerXXX #6 Posted 30 July 2020 - 07:51 PM

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Clearly the objective of equipment 2.0 is not to make it easier, cheaper and more competitive for new players.

 

Otherwise they would have made different choices such as no bounty/bond equipment below tier 6/7, limited the types of equipment at low tiers etc. 

 

Goal is again to keep players active in the game (spend time to get more/other stuff), drain credits gold and bonds and increase P2W. All powercreep in skills, directives food, now some feel they need to buy for example battle pass just to get competitive equipment.. 

 

 



Randomar #7 Posted 30 July 2020 - 08:27 PM

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As far I can tell, is Equipment 2.0 a step to Crew 2.0.

They have splitted one update into those two.


I believe it will be hard times in between them.



Mikanoid #8 Posted 30 July 2020 - 08:44 PM

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ALL they need to do with the low tiers is makes then PROPERLY ranked (not the faux ranked BS they are using for ranked battles)

 

That way no new nor crap players will be seal clubbed and the seal clubbers and stat padders can play each other to their hearts content without driving any more players away from the game

19:46 Added after 2 minute

View PostRandomar, on 30 July 2020 - 08:27 PM, said:

As far I can tell, is Equipment 2.0 a step to Crew 2.0.

They have splitted one update into those two.


I believe it will be hard times in between them.

Equipment 2.0 is SUPPOSED to be because not enough people use equipment, which I suspect would be fixed almost overnight by allowing you to remove equipment for 10 golds worth of silver without making ANY other game breaking poorly implemented changes (which we ALL know is exactly what it will be)

19:49 Added after 4 minute

As for the title, I suspect NO

 

Whilst they often blather on about changes being for the "players" its clear to see most of them are designed to drive away or penalise the players whilst creating extra revenue streams for WG nothing more

 

So short of a huge amount of players switching over to playing for free or leaving the game we wont be likely to see anything that actually benefits the players other than a small occasional gesture to maintain the pretence



HMS_Birmingham #9 Posted 31 July 2020 - 08:16 PM

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So it looks like WG really don't give a toss what it's player base thinks. https://worldoftanks...-equipment-2-0/

 

I feel it is a total insult what they are doing to the lower tiers. God help the gaming experience in the future. All the advantages tier 5 will have over the beginners in the lower tiers with less equipment, no directives and lower DPM!!! It is going to be one big [edited] show. Your either going to get a rush of inexperienced noobs trying to get to tier 5+ completely f'ing up game play with waste of time 3 minute battles or a mass migration of potential new long term players away from the game as they are farmed by all the seal clubbers visiting tier 5. With player numbers dwindling we will be left with an ever increase of AI bot players to the game.

 

Is it documented anywhere why they felt the need to remove gun rammers from tier 4 and below?? They gave their explanation why they wanted to reduce the number of equipment slots as it was all too confusing (for monkeys maybe!) and that it would help new players ease in to the game ??!!? Ease them in to thinking why the [edited] I downloaded this [edited] when I move 600yrds and get hit 3 times and explode maybe?!?!?!

 

Do WG have any intention of making changes to the match maker so that tier 1-4 can have fair games avoiding being placed against tanks two tiers above them running rammers and directives ?? I'm just blown away by the mentality behind their thinking and how they came to this solution to increasing the player base in WOT ??

 

I can only liken it to the mentality of a dairy farmer slaughtering their cows to sell the meat ??

 

 

19:17 Added after 0 minute
Anyone know how I can get a refund for all my time and money from WG ??

Edited by Homer_J, 01 August 2020 - 02:03 PM.
Profanity


Bulldog_Drummond #10 Posted 31 July 2020 - 08:33 PM

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View PostHMS_Birmingham, on 31 July 2020 - 07:16 PM, said:

So it looks like WG really don't give a toss what it's player base thinks. https://worldoftanks...-equipment-2-0/

 

I feel it is a total insult what they are doing to the lower tiers. God help the gaming experience in the future. All the advantages tier 5 will have over the beginners in the lower tiers with less equipment, no directives and lower DPM!!! It is going to be one big [edited] show. Your either going to get a rush of inexperienced noobs trying to get to tier 5+ completely f'ing up game play with waste of time 3 minute battles or a mass migration of potential new long term players away from the game as they are farmed by all the seal clubbers visiting tier 5. With player numbers dwindling we will be left with an ever increase of AI bot players to the game.

 

Is it documented anywhere why they felt the need to remove gun rammers from tier 4 and below?? They gave their explanation why they wanted to reduce the number of equipment slots as it was all too confusing (for monkeys maybe!) and that it would help new players ease in to the game ??!!? Ease them in to thinking why the [edited] I downloaded this [edited] when I move 600yrds and get hit 3 times and explode maybe?!?!?!

 

Do WG have any intention of making changes to the match maker so that tier 1-4 can have fair games avoiding being placed against tanks two tiers above them running rammers and directives ?? I'm just blown away by the mentality behind their thinking and how they came to this solution to increasing the player base in WOT ??

 

I can only liken it to the mentality of a dairy farmer slaughtering their cows to sell the meat ??

 

 

19:17 Added after 0 minute
Anyone know how I can get a refund for all my time and money from WG ??

 

This all sounds very positive for my Tier 5 KV220 with its 7 skill crew



nc30_guy #11 Posted 31 July 2020 - 08:42 PM

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This smacks of the armored warfare fiasco where they messed about with these things so many just left the game after that.

Edited by nc30_guy, 01 August 2020 - 09:50 AM.


hi_im_kalenji #12 Posted 31 July 2020 - 08:44 PM

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Must stop seal clubbers.

HMS_Birmingham #13 Posted 31 July 2020 - 09:39 PM

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View PostBulldog_Drummond, on 31 July 2020 - 08:33 PM, said:

 

This all sounds very positive for my Tier 5 KV220 with its 7 skill crew

 

 

Well I was thinking more along the lines of an SU-85 with 122mm punching out 450+ alpha every 6.33 seconds with bond improved equipment rammer, vents & gld with a full camo crew, BIA, situational awareness and recon.. My guess in the right position and top tier it might be possible to turn a 3 min turbo battle in to 95 seconds damage fest.

 

I wouldn't mind but reading through the changes the lower tiers don't even get the choice of all the new fancy 2.0 equipment available.



GodTank2 #14 Posted 31 July 2020 - 09:45 PM

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The forums arent even 1% of the active playerbase , it doesnt matter what you vote, wg already have surveys and statistics from the test servers.

Slyspy #15 Posted 31 July 2020 - 09:45 PM

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Meh, my prediction is that within a week it will be the new normal and no one will give a damn about it. That is how most "community" outrages normally go. 

__Eric__ #16 Posted 31 July 2020 - 11:01 PM

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No, they won't.

FizzleMcSnizzle #17 Posted 01 August 2020 - 01:27 AM

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no. They are not aware that any of us exist. We are just sone vague cash cow munching on the silage of their once sweet meadow.

Balc0ra #18 Posted 01 August 2020 - 01:41 AM

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View PostHMS_Birmingham, on 30 July 2020 - 06:40 PM, said:

got me thinking how would I cope with out a rammer when faced against mostly higher tier tanks that would have higher alpha guns and rammers.

 

Tbh most tier 4's won't notice much of a difference facing +2, with or without the rammer. As tbh, the few tier 4's I have in the garage will focus on getting other support aspects up vs just the DPM. As I don't have much plans to trade shots with a T-34-85M for the corner he has in any of my tier 4's. But increasing mobility, camo or even the view range or spotting sounds like a more solid idea to replace the rammer if +2 matches are your concern. As for most, a rammer at that tier is a pricey tool that only gives you an edge over a new player and his 75% crew. As he can't afford it. And you said your crew is sub 100% as is, so you are already crippled vs any 5 crew tier 6 you might face. 

 

View Postsaxsan4, on 30 July 2020 - 07:02 PM, said:

+2mm is the issue though and they really should have it +1/-1 onlybut they wont even entertain the idea so we will have to just make do and mend

 

But +2 is not the issue alone at lower tiers is it? It had a massive impact on tier 3 when they got +1, even for the Pz1c. But it was still not the only fix needed. Most at tier 3 and 4 are new or casuals, and thus there are gaps in both crew, affordable equipment and... even food etc. Thus why I like the new approach on lower tiers with equipment and consumables. It reduces some of the gaps. Even more so lower down. As now you can't use a tier 1 with camo net, binocs, food, vents and a 4 skilled crew to pad WN8 vs new players. You just have the crew now. On tier II you have to pick binocs or vents etc. As you only have the one slot. And the Marders won't farm their blind preys as fast, but they might spot them faster. 


Edited by Balc0ra, 01 August 2020 - 01:43 AM.


Robbie_T #19 Posted 01 August 2020 - 03:00 AM

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About the lower tiers getting there equipment removed i dont care. ( who plays tier 1 to 4_

And would make it better for  new players without experienced players having 6 skill crews and equipment on there tanks.

But they should make tier 1 till 4 with  same tier MM 

But i think some of people worry how to keep there winrate up with sealclubbing lower tiers.

 

 



Mikanoid #20 Posted 01 August 2020 - 06:09 AM

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View PostBulldog_Drummond, on 31 July 2020 - 08:33 PM, said:

 

This all sounds very positive for my Tier 5 KV220 with its 7 skill crew

To be perfectly honest I was thinking similar


 

If WG seem so intent on killing the game then why not help them by making the experience for new and free to play players so utterly unbearable they just delete the game in sheer disgust


 

Right about now thats about the most compelling reason I can think of for playing after equipment 2.0 is introduced

05:12 Added after 2 minute

View PostRobbie_T, on 01 August 2020 - 03:00 AM, said:

About the lower tiers getting there equipment removed i dont care. ( who plays tier 1 to 4_

And would make it better for  new players without experienced players having 6 skill crews and equipment on there tanks.

But they should make tier 1 till 4 with  same tier MM

But i think some of people worry how to keep there winrate up with sealclubbing lower tiers.

 

 

They still WILL be seal clubbing, and without new players having the ability to use equipment I suspect it will actually be easier to do rather than harder with a good crew that has BIA, repairs, cammo on them


 

Fish in a barrel


 

And when they poor suckers get up a few tiers and start facing tanks that have more equipment slots AND better crews it will get even easier again as you will have equipment they cant even install to begin with






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