Jump to content


Make Low Tier Great Again


  • Please log in to reply
34 replies to this topic

Private_Miros #1 Posted 30 July 2020 - 08:33 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 30136 battles
  • 12,010
  • [EMU87] EMU87
  • Member since:
    07-09-2011

The newly announced bond earning mechanic is yet another incentive for people to only play tier 10. Other incentives highly favour tier 6-10 (missions, battle pass).

 

Tier 10 in particular I am not a fan of to guide the player base towards, as it is probably the most unbalanced tier where the problems of the game are highlighted the most in terms of map design and tank balance, and the tier that clearly causes the most frustration among players (you are always top tier, which despite many complaining about not being top tier, is actually a bad thing if you cannot carry).

 

I think WG should invest more in keeping all tiers populated (while, for spending reasons, also encouraging grinds obviously, but I think they do so enough already with top of the tier and new lines). I regret seeing tier 5 and below neglected currently. You could argue that playing low tiers is seal clubbing, but.... have you seen the players in tier 6-10? The number of seals vs clubbers really doesn't differ. New players basically start at tier 6 anyway.

 

WoT is great because every tier is end game. A good crew, equipment, and developing that feeling of knowing what the limits of the capabilities of a certain tank are, that's what WoT is about.

 

I think they should not neglect tiers 1-9; and put some more effort in tiers 1-5, such as including missions there (for like low tier reward/collector tanks, that aren't OP) and expanding MoE. Alternatively, and in line with the tech tree cuts, you could argue that tiers 1-5 could start to be phased out as players numbers fall in those tiers.



StronkiTonki #2 Posted 30 July 2020 - 08:47 PM

    Lieutenant

  • Clan Commander
  • 36523 battles
  • 1,714
  • [T0AST] T0AST
  • Member since:
    05-27-2011

I absolutely agree.

I actually made a topic as well regarding this issue, specifically about the bonds system, and trying to come up with some ideas to make bonds earnable on lower tiers as well.

 

I'm definitely fed up as well with how everyone is pushed into playing tier 10 all the time. Because that's obviously the tier where people spend most credits, thus the more people who play tier 10, the more it is needed to buy premium accounts and premium tanks.

Marks of excellence are only tier 5+

Battle pass progress is only tier 6+

I was genuinely surprised to see that the new progressive decals were available on all tiers. I expected them to be tier 5+ as well.

 

Most upsetting now is that they removed the ability to get any bonds from epic medals.

I came up with a few good ideas regarding bond earning in my topic mentioned above.



PowJay #3 Posted 30 July 2020 - 09:15 PM

    Lieutenant General

  • Player
  • 43573 battles
  • 6,082
  • Member since:
    09-07-2012

The fact that there are many fine- and very genuine- tanks in the lower tiers means that it would be a shame to forget those that did see action in war.

 

While we all play GW SPGs that did not exist, every American "T" tank that may not have even made it off the drawing boards, the German "E" tanks and all the VK models that were never adopted, the Japanese HTs and various vehicles that nobody can distinguish from the other "WZs" and "Type" we are missing out on some of the most famous tanks in history if you only play tier VI+

 

I am not judging them on their abilities and popularity, but here is a selection of the most famous tanks from tier V and below and this is only from memory. Pz I variants, Pz II variants, Pz III variants, Pz IV and III/IV variants. Two StuGs. Hetzer. Two Marders. Matilda. Churchill I and III if you are a Premium tank player. Not to mention a fair few of the Premium gift and other famous low-tier tanks.

 

And it goes on. Lee. Grant. Stuart. Sherman M4 and III. Valentine. Archer. KV-1 and T-34 not to mention the earlier Soviet tanks that are obviously not quite as famous. I am not so familiar with SPGs historically, but I know that there are a fair few genuine war-time vehicles in the low tier (collector) mix. While I am not (again) overly familiar with early French tanks, I know that there are some real gems in the line-up (from a historical PoV)

 

The various Czech tanks both in the Czech and German tree, used by the Germans after the conquest of Czechoslovakia as well as the Premiums that the Germans adopted for policing and local defence upon the fall of France. The list goes on and on.


And yet we are encouraged to play minimum tier IV (for general missions) tier VI for Battle Pass and even VII for Chimera missions while VI is the minimum for the T-55a and Object Campaigns- which is not unfair, just another reason not to play low tiers.

 

Many call it seal-clubbing. I don't much care as I have explained before. My own ability means that tier IV and V are the tiers that I can carry at while VIII+ are those were I am, more generally, hopeless.

 

I also did a breakdown of the battle count and win rates of players in a tier III and IV battle once. I won't do it again because it took a LONG time, but there were plenty of "experienced" players on BOTH teams and a fair mix of skill. I believe that it was so close that swapping only one- possibly two- players between the teams would have been all that it took to make it much more balanced in battle count and skill. 

 

People seem to think that when I go into battle in a tier IV that I am somehow battering the newbies, but there are PLENTY of other players both experienced and competent who are more than happy to hand me my backside on a plate. It just happens to me less often with tier IVs than it does tier VII.



qpranger #4 Posted 30 July 2020 - 09:18 PM

    Lieutenant General

  • Player
  • 38889 battles
  • 7,091
  • [HAMMY] HAMMY
  • Member since:
    12-25-2013

I agree.

In War Thunder you can earn ALL OFFERED bonds playing tanks at battle ratings as low as 4.

And the battle ratings there go up to 10 as well, so you get the picture.

Shame on Wargaming.


Edited by qpranger, 30 July 2020 - 09:19 PM.


Yaccay #5 Posted 30 July 2020 - 09:22 PM

    Major

  • Player
  • 37409 battles
  • 2,576
  • [4TL] 4TL
  • Member since:
    11-21-2012
Please also notice: WG revokes the ability of earning BONDS of tier VIII (and VII and VI) premium tanks.

Gruff_ #6 Posted 31 July 2020 - 02:06 AM

    Major

  • Player
  • 26515 battles
  • 2,816
  • Member since:
    09-22-2011
They are determined to shove everyone into t10 randoms as that is the most profitable return for the company.

undutchable80 #7 Posted 31 July 2020 - 06:48 AM

    Major General

  • Player
  • 15607 battles
  • 5,147
  • [T-D-U] T-D-U
  • Member since:
    10-30-2014

View PostGruff_, on 31 July 2020 - 02:06 AM, said:

They are determined to shove everyone into t10 randoms as that is the most profitable return for the company.

A move which I really dislike. Not just because newbs can get to Tier X really really fast these days (blueprints, x5s, TotT), but also because I am not a fan of tier 10 gameplay.



AmphetamineLogic #8 Posted 31 July 2020 - 08:21 AM

    Private

  • Player
  • 4126 battles
  • 33
  • Member since:
    01-04-2017

I appreciate that I'm relatively new (although my account was created in 2017, I didn't play a competitive battle until March this year) but I currently have no desire to play higher than VI, so whatever WG are doing with their incentives isn't working on me.

 

I still enjoy playing tier I in my Medium 1 with its crawl speed and cardboard armour which evens up any experience I've gained. Beyond VI the game seems to be filled with tanks that never existed, which doesn't really appeal to me.



Bulldog_Drummond #9 Posted 31 July 2020 - 08:25 AM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 36552 battles
  • 12,582
  • [DRATT] DRATT
  • Member since:
    08-10-2014
I am pleased to see that what I have been saying for many years is becoming more widely accepted

qpranger #10 Posted 31 July 2020 - 08:25 AM

    Lieutenant General

  • Player
  • 38889 battles
  • 7,091
  • [HAMMY] HAMMY
  • Member since:
    12-25-2013

View PostAmphetamineLogic, on 31 July 2020 - 10:21 AM, said:

I appreciate that I'm relatively new (although my account was created in 2017, I didn't play a competitive battle until March this year) but I currently have no desire to play higher than VI, so whatever WG are doing with their incentives isn't working on me.

 

I still enjoy playing tier I in my Medium 1 with its crawl speed and cardboard armour which evens up any experience I've gained. Beyond VI the game seems to be filled with tanks that never existed, which doesn't really appeal to me.

 

Good man, stay real!



Unicorn_of_Steel #11 Posted 31 July 2020 - 08:47 AM

    Warrant Officer

  • Player
  • 21490 battles
  • 751
  • [R_D_A] R_D_A
  • Member since:
    12-29-2017

View PostBulldog_Drummond, on 31 July 2020 - 08:25 AM, said:

I am pleased to see that what I have been saying for many years is becoming more widely accepted

 

Strictly speaking for myself, it requires taking some steps tbh. The first step is admitting not being good enough to make it in the higher tiers. Which automatically leads to the question wether or not it is still worth the time to keep playing tanks that have been unlocked a long time ago. Because basically at this point the endgame has been reached. The second step is to overcome the fear of being frowned upon as a seal clubber when hitting battle in a Leopard with > 1.000 battles in it. I find this to be a difficult step although i know very well that skillwise i am and will remain somewhat of a seal myself. 

 

I said it before on the forum, i have/had the most fun in WoT while playing tier 4-6 tanks. I love playing the Strv. 103 because of its looks, the fact that its real and because of the mechanics....but you rather not have me on your team in it. I love playing the StuG III B because of its looks, the historical impact of that machine and the overall design....and you do want me on your team in it. Yet i don't get myself to sell e.g. my non-performing BC 25 t AP and rebuy all those lower tier goodies...

 

You know, i am one of those players that started WOT with the wish to own a Panther. Jpanther, Tiger 1, Tiger 2, Strv. 103-B and Leopard 1. Just because they where real, made a real impact and are really beautifull models. Playing my Panther or the Tiger II simply adds to the fun and immersion. On the way i happened to fall in love with that beautifull French girl, the AMX 13-75 and grew fond of the WZ 131, indeed, both very real. 

 

If i only could just sell that BC i can reach my desired garage/endgame in 30 minutes from now....


Edited by Unicorn_of_Steel, 31 July 2020 - 08:52 AM.


vanderkat #12 Posted 31 July 2020 - 08:51 AM

    Lance-corporal

  • Player
  • 7171 battles
  • 87
  • Member since:
    12-31-2019

Block Quote

.............. no desire to play higher than VI, so whatever WG are doing with their incentives isn't working on me.

 I feel exactly the same - low-mid tiers, particularly French (H35 & S35) and British (Valentine, Matilda, Churchill etc.), are where I can enjoy the game. Higher tier play, above Tier VI, does nothing for me.

 



Hedgehog1963 #13 Posted 31 July 2020 - 09:27 AM

    Lieutenant General

  • Player
  • 59231 battles
  • 7,963
  • [DIRTY] DIRTY
  • Member since:
    04-26-2011
I can earn 25 bonds a day in as few as three battles and never leave Tier I.  That would be the fewest bonds per day you could achieve.  In reality witht he daily missions they drop at a greater rate.

Edited by Hedgehog1963, 31 July 2020 - 09:36 AM.


Gkirmathal #14 Posted 31 July 2020 - 10:28 AM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 8692 battles
  • 1,944
  • [2VTD] 2VTD
  • Member since:
    01-14-2013

View PostPrivate_Miros, on 30 July 2020 - 07:33 PM, said:

...snip...

 

WoT is great because every tier is end game. A good crew, equipment, and developing that feeling of knowing what the limits of the capabilities of a certain tank are, that's what WoT is about.

 

I think they should not neglect tiers 1-9; and put some more effort in tiers 1-5, such as including missions there (for like low tier reward/collector tanks, that aren't OP) and expanding MoE. Alternatively, and in line with the tech tree cuts, you could argue that tiers 1-5 could start to be phased out as players numbers fall in those tiers.

 

Sry for snipping: in short IMO it is already too late for that...though I do 100% fully agree with you...something with if the world was ideal and without greedy fcks running the show.

 

The ones responsible at WG, for pulling the strings, at WoT like the product directors/creative directors/executive directors/et al. They already have consolidated their design strategy how to best maximize revenue through in-game monetization with the most of it focused on higher tier content (over the past couple of years).

 

I guess in their view they created only the 'top content bracket' serves this purpose best. This can be clearly seen in the way they mostly focus development and they started catering towards this more and more over the past few years.

The new Bonds mechanics is just one little piece that fits this indication further, the simplification and 'obfuscation out of the tech tree' of lower tiered content is another jet very recent indication.

 

Catering to lower tiers and viewing each tier as being it's own 'end game content' or 'end tier content' does not play into their cards on how they see revenue progression and their vision how to best the monetization of the WoT product and it evolution/development direction.

Wargaming just has a far far different view as to what "their options are/were/could have been" that they could have pursued and they are now fully committed on the course they have chosen in which they do try (yes something positive) to omit some of the downsides vs lower tiers of their chosen direction.

 

I reckon they fully know that of the WoT consumers a >50% paying consumer base is not possible, so they have to cater a minimum amount of effort to maintain the consumer diversity to keep a stability between the "frequent/bigger spenders" that keep WG shows running and the "fillers" (f2p and low level spenders) that keep in the spenders. In SEA one can see this was mediated by having added in bots into lower tiers MM due to too low population.

 

Thinking about why too low a population to rectify bots...well the fillers mostly fill the lower to mid tiers and the fillers stick around much much less.

This can be seen on big patches being released and or on high XP events, when most "fillers" come back to also checking what's happening/was released and leave after a few days to weeks/month (reasons are their own, yet are very meaningfull).

So WoT has seen a rather substantial decline of the amount of consumers that filled the lower tiers, hence WG rework of the lower tiers with the argument (if I remember correctly) those lower tiers had become much less popular (lower population).

 

And instead of making it 'more popular' keeping in the "fillers", through better maintaining content balanced/power levels throughout all tiers, they do what works best for them....pushing the remaining population of spenders and filler ever so slowly up to where most of the population resides and where most monetization can be done so the spenders stay and the fillers fill.

 

Well at least this is my view on the matter and my opinion is this will only get more apparent as WoT evolves.

 

And in that one can make a choice:

a) go with this flow (keep playing/paying) , even if you don't like it and where it is going; OR

b) don't (keep playing/paying), decide when your tipping point has been reached and stick to it.

 


Edited by Gkirmathal, 31 July 2020 - 10:32 AM.


Private_Miros #15 Posted 31 July 2020 - 10:33 AM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 30136 battles
  • 12,010
  • [EMU87] EMU87
  • Member since:
    07-09-2011

View PostGkirmathal, on 31 July 2020 - 09:28 AM, said:

 

Sry for snipping...

 

 

I agree, but I do think small steps can be made.

 

I notice I play tier 6 and up mostly because of points for the battle pass. Including all tiers in that, even if the rewards would be minimal under tier 6, would already make me take out my lower tier tanks for a spin. And that's really all that's needed to keep them populated and interested. Seasoned players playing like 5/100 games there.

 

WG can do that without abandoning their push to tier X and money spending, which, you know, from a business point is legitimate.



Famepackexe #16 Posted 31 July 2020 - 10:35 AM

    Warrant Officer

  • Player
  • 53857 battles
  • 877
  • [FARMS] FARMS
  • Member since:
    09-07-2014
Maybe they should have left the premium missions for bonds for lower tier and excluded tier 10 from it.So if i decide to only farm credits in my tier 8 premiums for a week no bonds :(

iuytr #17 Posted 31 July 2020 - 07:25 PM

    Warrant Officer

  • Player
  • 14240 battles
  • 818
  • Member since:
    06-04-2015

Well it is possible to just ignore the higher tiers. I've never played above tier 7 and I only play tier 7 because the E25 is so much fun.

 

I want to minimum 1 mark every tier 5 and 6 in the game using a different account for each nation, and not doing too bad so far :) Try it, it's quite hard as you need so many playing styles :confused:



Bulldog_Drummond #18 Posted 31 July 2020 - 08:16 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 36552 battles
  • 12,582
  • [DRATT] DRATT
  • Member since:
    08-10-2014

I just played in a random Tier 2/3 game in my Tetrarch.  It was an easy win for us but what intrigued me was that this was only 12/side

That's at 8pm UK time, I have never seen reduced sides before except in the small hours

Maybe WG are right that low tiers are vanishing.  Maybe it's just the warm weather



qpranger #19 Posted 31 July 2020 - 08:52 PM

    Lieutenant General

  • Player
  • 38889 battles
  • 7,091
  • [HAMMY] HAMMY
  • Member since:
    12-25-2013

View PostBulldog_Drummond, on 31 July 2020 - 10:16 PM, said:

I just played in a random Tier 2/3 game in my Tetrarch.  It was an easy win for us but what intrigued me was that this was only 12/side

That's at 8pm UK time, I have never seen reduced sides before except in the small hours

Maybe WG are right that low tiers are vanishing.  Maybe it's just the warm weather

 

Maybe someone has been clubbing too many seals in their KV 220 and seals have moved elsewhere.



Bulldog_Drummond #20 Posted 31 July 2020 - 09:15 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 36552 battles
  • 12,582
  • [DRATT] DRATT
  • Member since:
    08-10-2014

View Postqpranger, on 31 July 2020 - 07:52 PM, said:

 

Maybe someone has been clubbing too many seals in their KV 220 and seals have moved elsewhere.

 

I find that hard to believe as all forum posters see the KV220 as UP so in running it I do feel that I am giving the other fellow a chance






1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users