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Equipment 2.0 will not cost you a single credit (let alone gold)

equipment 2.0 salt whiners

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Infryndiira #61 Posted 01 August 2020 - 05:58 PM

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View PostTeluminos, on 01 August 2020 - 05:23 PM, said:

Someone is defending this with wrong math?

Geez already had to disprove that point on another topic but here we go again.

Your math does not work at all first of all any Medium or Light Tank will loose value by the moment this goes live and just to quote something that may be explained later but for now implies every tank with mismatched Tier will be stripped later:

https://worldoftanks.eu/en/news/general-news/1-10-equipment-2-0/

Under Conversion conditions it reads as follows: 

 

This for me reads any medium Tank or Light tank that is tier 8 or above would be Stripped in a Future Patch and the mismatched Equipement will not work on those any more meaning just to maintain your current equipment you will have to indeed rebuy your stuff for those tanks I did some math with that like the price difference between current and upcomming equipment costs:

 

Unless wargaming states otherwhise not only will players who just want to keep their current Gear Value but also the sale prices of anything mounted right now on those tanks eventhough the equipment will still be lower then the original Buy price:

Medium Tank Vents cost: 150.000 now and their conversion will cost 200.000 witch sells for 100.000 wich is a loss of 50.000 credits.

Medium-Caliber Tank Gun Rammer cost 200.000 and will be converted to Class 2 aswell like the Vents wich cost 300.000 wich is a sell price of 150.000 wich is still a loss of 50.000.

 

So with that in mind no this does not add up I am sorry to say so.

No matter the angle higher tier tanks tier 8 and up will have insane price increases to just maintain current level equipment and this makes no sence.

You are misreading this. It means the following:

  1. Tier VI premium German heavy tank Tiger 131 currently has Improved Ventilation, Large-Caliber Gun Rammer, and Coated Optics.
  2. Improved Ventilation costs 600K; Large-Caliber Gun Rammer costs 500K; and Coated Optics cost 500K.
  3. As such, these are converted to Improved Ventilation Class 1, Gun Rammer Class 1, and Coated Optics Class 1, each costing 600K (an increase in price by up to 100K for each).
  4. This equipment will remain mounted on Tiger 131, and remain fully usable. You can freely reorder them to decide which one goes on the Survivability slot (it makes sense to use Vents for the +1% bonus).
  5. However, they are each marked by an arrow, signifying they are higher-tier equipment. This means they are 100% free to dismount from the tank, but if you dismount it, you can't mount it back on, as the Tiger 131 now needs Class 2 equipment as opposed to Class 1.

In this isolated example, you can dismount all 3 for free and either reuse them in Tier VIII+ vehicles, or sell them 50% off at 300K each. The sale price as of 1.10 is 100K higher than its sale price on 1.9, with the exception of Vents, which already sells for 300K since this is a Heavy Tank and they cost 600K without discounts on Live anyway. However, if you buy Class 2 equipment, they instead cost 200K (Vents, Optics) to 300K (Rammer), so you can actually convert two of the three to same-tier equipment and also add 200K to your credit pool (as Class 2 Vents and Optics cost 100K less to purchase than the sale price of Class 1 Vents and Optics).

 

Now, while the value of Class 2 Vents and Class 2 Optics is lower than the value of Class 1 Vents and Class 1 Optics, you should keep in mind that once purchased, equipment can only be converted back to credits by selling it 50% off. This means that once purchased, Class 1 Vents and Class 1 Optics are valued at 300K each (and not the 600K you spent purchasing it; unless you purchase it 50% off during a sale, in which case its value stays the same) but the value of non-purchased Class 2 Vents and Class 2 Optics is at 200K each (without an equipment sale going on), therefore by selling Class 1 equipment to purchase Class 2 rakes in a 100K profit in this case (except for the Gun Rammer; Class 1 Rammer costs 600K and Class 2 Rammer costs 300K, so converting it from Class 1 to Class 2 gives you a net gain/loss of 0 credits as opposed to a net gain of 100K credits with the other two).

 

Likewise for those:

  • Medium Tank Vents are valued at 75K once purchased (50% of the undiscounted purchase price) so their sale price increases to 100K (50% of the purchase price of Class 2 Vents).
  • Medium Gun Rammers are valued at 100K once purchased (50% of the undiscounted purchase price) so their sale price increases to 150K (50% of the purchase price of Class 2 Rammer).

 

However, a new Medium Tank will require more expensive Rammer now, since the purchase price of Class 2 Rammers (which are usable by higher-tier tanks, such as the Object 140 - see image below) increases from 200K to 300K. In this case, it is more profitable to purchase a new rammer for a Medium Tank (or any other tank using said rammer type) in 1.9 and not 1.10.

 

Now, why is the sale price more relevant than the purchase price? To put it simply, once you own equipment, its value in credits can only go down. There is absolutely no way to sell your existing equipment for 100% of its undiscounted purchase price; the best-case scenario is to sell it for 100% of its undiscounted purchase price after purchasing it at 50% off the regular price, or, in other words, purchasing it during an equipment sale for the same price as you can sell it during normal/non-sale periods. Purchase prices are only relevant for purchasing new equipment which you don't own yet (such as the Class 2 Improved Hardening the Object 140 can mount in the screenshot above; keep in mind that this is a Tier 10 tank, and as such it would normally use Class 1 equipment costing 600K like the Improved Rotation Mechanism pictured above, but high tier tanks sometimes keep lower-tier equipment classes that allows them to be equipped for a lower cost than others; eg a Maus has to pay for Class 1 rammers and hardening, but a 140 has to pay for Class 2 instead despite being the same tier).


Edited by Infryndiira, 01 August 2020 - 06:08 PM.


PlymArgyle1982 #62 Posted 01 August 2020 - 06:25 PM

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View PostInfryndiira, on 01 August 2020 - 01:20 PM, said:

Again, not correct. For example, I own a Tiger 131 and an HT No. VI. Both of these are equipped with Vents, Rammer and Optics on Live. On CT, they are equipped with the exact same equipment, upgraded to Class 1 (which cost 600K apiece) despite actually requiring Class 2 equipment. I am free to keep these six equipment pieces on the two tanks, or demount them for free, without using gold or demounting kits, at any time I like. This gives me 3 options:

  1. I keep them as-is and play them as it were (which is what I am going to do). This requires 0 effort, 0 credits and 0 gold.
  2. I demount the equipment, sell it for 900.000 credits, and then spend 600.000 credits to mount Class 2 equipment. This still costs 0 gold. I can then use those 300.000 surplus credits on other equipment, consumables, tanks, or hookers.
  3. I keep them as-is, but when I next purchase a Tier VIII+ tank that requires equipment I demount the Class 1 equipment I require from the tank(s), mount it on the VIII+ for free, and then choose whether or not I want to replace each of the dismounted equipment for 200.000 credits each.

As of dismounting kits, you receive up to 30 automatically, plus 21 via missions, plus 90 purchasable for credits during 1.10 for a total of 141. That's like giving up to 1410 gold per player in exchange for logging in, playing as you normally do, and spend approximately 3.4 million credits.

 

Hi there. For the most part, that wasn't what I saying. 

 

I'm a casual player. It's taken me 10 years to get all the equipment for the 60-70 tanks or whatever I have. After the patch, a lot of them will no longer be 'optimal'; so I need to buy the new stuff. That means, at some point, I will have to buy these. However, that means that I will have spare equipment lying around that I will no longer need. When/if I sell these to get the new, then I will only be getting half that value back; and will have to make up the difference when they are replaced with the new. Even if they have altered the prices a bit, since it is so many tanks, this adds up pretty quickly.

 

Even if I am wrong with this (which I am always open to), it is still only one of the reasons why I am very against this patch. And also, my misunderstanding would be down to poor communication on WG's part. 

 

With the dismounting kits, that is still in no way, shape, or form good enough.



Bulldog_Drummond #63 Posted 01 August 2020 - 06:30 PM

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View Postmpf1959, on 01 August 2020 - 11:32 AM, said:

 

It requires considerable maturity to remain graceful in situations of personal humiliation, from experience I would say most people do not have it. :girl:

 

I am rarely wrong about anything I have taken the trouble to think about, but it does happen from time to time.  I wouldn't see myself as especially mature (having a mental age of 17) but admitting a mistake or accepting new and relevant information is a splendid way of deflecting any further persiflage.  

 

“Oh, Jeeves,' I said; 'about that check suit.'
Yes, sir?'
Is it really a frost?'
A trifle too bizarre, sir, in my opinion.'
But lots of fellows have asked me who my tailor is.'
Doubtless in order to avoid him, sir.'
He's supposed to be one of the best men in London.'
I am saying nothing against his moral character, sir.”



Infryndiira #64 Posted 01 August 2020 - 06:33 PM

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View PostPlymArgyle1982, on 01 August 2020 - 07:25 PM, said:

 

Hi there. For the most part, that wasn't what I saying. 

 

I'm a casual player. It's taken me 10 years to get all the equipment for the 60-70 tanks or whatever I have. After the patch, a lot of them will no longer be 'optimal'; so I need to buy the new stuff. That means, at some point, I will have to buy these. However, that means that I will have spare equipment lying around that I will no longer need. When/if I sell these to get the new, then I will only be getting half that value back; and will have to make up the difference when they are replaced with the new. Even if they have altered the prices a bit, since it is so many tanks, this adds up pretty quickly.

 

Even if I am wrong with this (which I am always open to), it is still only one of the reasons why I am very against this patch. And also, my misunderstanding would be down to poor communication on WG's part. 

 

With the dismounting kits, that is still in no way, shape, or form good enough.

Hey there. I am a self-proclaimed filthy casual myself.

 

Whether or not the current standard load-outs will remain optimal is up to a little debate, but for the most part, they should keep your tanks at least as effective as they are now, if not make them outright better since you will have a specialised equipment slot to work with (see my Tiger 131 example above). In many cases, and especially in middle-tier vehicles, you can even exchange your current equipment for new one and even rake in a profit from the sale, as described above. I could literally sell my 131 equipment, mount the exact same stuff, and have 200K more credits in the bank to work with for my other mid-tier vehicles.

 

If you sell your equipment now, you will get less value overall than if you sell it in a few days. The next patch is going to increase the sale price of your equipment relative to now, unless we're talking about Christie Suspensions, which is literally the only case of equipment costs going down rather than up (Class 3 Improved Hardening costs 40K to buy, Christie costs 80K to buy).

 

EDIT: If you end up wishing to change equipment and lack the credits, just stay put, save up credits, purchase during the next Equipment Sale (whenever that is) and, once out of the sale, sell any unusable surplus. The surplus will still earn you more than it would earn you today.


Edited by Infryndiira, 01 August 2020 - 06:36 PM.


Teluminos #65 Posted 01 August 2020 - 08:23 PM

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View PostInfryndiira, on 01 August 2020 - 05:58 PM, said:

You are misreading this. It means the following:

  1. Tier VI premium German heavy tank Tiger 131 currently has Improved Ventilation, Large-Caliber Gun Rammer, and Coated Optics.
  2. Improved Ventilation costs 600K; Large-Caliber Gun Rammer costs 500K; and Coated Optics cost 500K.
  3. As such, these are converted to Improved Ventilation Class 1, Gun Rammer Class 1, and Coated Optics Class 1, each costing 600K (an increase in price by up to 100K for each).
  4. This equipment will remain mounted on Tiger 131, and remain fully usable. You can freely reorder them to decide which one goes on the Survivability slot (it makes sense to use Vents for the +1% bonus).
  5. However, they are each marked by an arrow, signifying they are higher-tier equipment. This means they are 100% free to dismount from the tank, but if you dismount it, you can't mount it back on, as the Tiger 131 now needs Class 2 equipment as opposed to Class 1.

In this isolated example, you can dismount all 3 for free and either reuse them in Tier VIII+ vehicles, or sell them 50% off at 300K each. The sale price as of 1.10 is 100K higher than its sale price on 1.9, with the exception of Vents, which already sells for 300K since this is a Heavy Tank and they cost 600K without discounts on Live anyway. However, if you buy Class 2 equipment, they instead cost 200K (Vents, Optics) to 300K (Rammer), so you can actually convert two of the three to same-tier equipment and also add 200K to your credit pool (as Class 2 Vents and Optics cost 100K less to purchase than the sale price of Class 1 Vents and Optics).

 

Now, while the value of Class 2 Vents and Class 2 Optics is lower than the value of Class 1 Vents and Class 1 Optics, you should keep in mind that once purchased, equipment can only be converted back to credits by selling it 50% off. This means that once purchased, Class 1 Vents and Class 1 Optics are valued at 300K each (and not the 600K you spent purchasing it; unless you purchase it 50% off during a sale, in which case its value stays the same) but the value of non-purchased Class 2 Vents and Class 2 Optics is at 200K each (without an equipment sale going on), therefore by selling Class 1 equipment to purchase Class 2 rakes in a 100K profit in this case (except for the Gun Rammer; Class 1 Rammer costs 600K and Class 2 Rammer costs 300K, so converting it from Class 1 to Class 2 gives you a net gain/loss of 0 credits as opposed to a net gain of 100K credits with the other two).

 

Likewise for those:

  • Medium Tank Vents are valued at 75K once purchased (50% of the undiscounted purchase price) so their sale price increases to 100K (50% of the purchase price of Class 2 Vents).
  • Medium Gun Rammers are valued at 100K once purchased (50% of the undiscounted purchase price) so their sale price increases to 150K (50% of the purchase price of Class 2 Rammer).

 

However, a new Medium Tank will require more expensive Rammer now, since the purchase price of Class 2 Rammers (which are usable by higher-tier tanks, such as the Object 140 - see image below) increases from 200K to 300K. In this case, it is more profitable to purchase a new rammer for a Medium Tank (or any other tank using said rammer type) in 1.9 and not 1.10.

 

Now, why is the sale price more relevant than the purchase price? To put it simply, once you own equipment, its value in credits can only go down. There is absolutely no way to sell your existing equipment for 100% of its undiscounted purchase price; the best-case scenario is to sell it for 100% of its undiscounted purchase price after purchasing it at 50% off the regular price, or, in other words, purchasing it during an equipment sale for the same price as you can sell it during normal/non-sale periods. Purchase prices are only relevant for purchasing new equipment which you don't own yet (such as the Class 2 Improved Hardening the Object 140 can mount in the screenshot above; keep in mind that this is a Tier 10 tank, and as such it would normally use Class 1 equipment costing 600K like the Improved Rotation Mechanism pictured above, but high tier tanks sometimes keep lower-tier equipment classes that allows them to be equipped for a lower cost than others; eg a Maus has to pay for Class 1 rammers and hardening, but a 140 has to pay for Class 2 instead despite being the same tier).

 

Why are you replying me with a Tier 6 Heavy being overequiped if my example was a Tier 8 medium beeing underequiped?

 

And no I understand I can keep it for the current update but read what I quoted again this does not imply you can just swap it around or remove mismatched equipment It clearly implies that they intent of removing it:

Block Quote

 Equipment whose class will change compared to the current vehicle type will be indicated with a warning icon. Feel free to use this equipment on this specific tank, but it will not be possible to remount it after demounting. This equipment will be sent to the Depot at the start of the next update.

 

The end part is what worries me not the rest I never implied I could not swap between slots and I do understand when wargaming gives me a warning I would not be able to remount it, even though I do not really see what they had to mess with the Equipment that was already there before price whise.

I do not see where anything actually gets cheaper for new players as most things have a higher base price.

As for your discount values yes you would get a profit in case you bought on a sale, however those weren't common in the early years, so not every piece of equipment would follow that, because only IF you got it on discount you would have this benefit otherwise that is still a loss.

Nobody argues that lower tier tanks for new players should be cheaper to gear out, but the fact any tier 8 and above medium and light basically looses on this metric because if you do demount something or if the upper message implies its gonna be done later no matter what this one is up in the air for me that means you will have to buy more expensive equipment to achieve the same function as the current patch.

 

Here some things that wargaming could have done:

Equipment would be fitted to the tank it is equiped on Currently.

This way people do not loose the access to the current outfit in any way even if they wanna experiment, because lets face it if wargaming tells me I would need to buy 600k (300k if on sale) Vents or Rammer if I want to experiment with the new gear on any of my High Tier tanks?

If you don't like your new kit on said medium tank there is after all no way to go straight back to its gear under this system.

Even if you argue that would make people gain money it would be essentially a win win because this way you could demount your stuff on any tank and can go back if you don't like what you get, and it would be pro user since everything would indeed go up in value and since this is a Closed economy even the people who would use this right now to get some free cash on selling stuff it does not harm anyone does it?

On no angle is the way wargaming is handling this good for the end user in this iteration.

I have 23 Medium tanks tier 8 and above kitted out and 5 light tanks, with that I could actually use the new system, instead now I gotta worry about their vague comment and would need to pay at least 600k if i do experiment (considering sale price would mean the new equipment and then for example the Vents) if i did want to go back after trying something new out.

 

Or who knows, maybe just get rid of demounting costs alltogether and make all equipment cheaper in general its not hurting anyone, I doubt many people would complain about equipment becoming cheaper instead of more expensive.

 

The point here is they went for the route that is infact the least Consumer Friendly for old players, and thats why I am quite unhappy as things are.

 

The last part is interesting, but for me wargaming did not emphasis at what exactly can be equiped In such special cases.

Don't get me wrong I thank you for telling me this, but since their post litterly says Some Tier VIII or higher.

It did not tell me exactly what and that's not a good thing for a company to do with such huge change what qualifies what doesn't.

If I have to right now guess wich Tanks Tier 8 or higher could use what Class 2 equipment, then that doesn't do much to me and is a bad look on wargamings part.

Kinda implies this has been rushed, so they could not even bother to give us all a full list on wich gear and wich tanks you know...


Edited by Teluminos, 01 August 2020 - 08:32 PM.


Bordhaw #66 Posted 01 August 2020 - 09:54 PM

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View PostOniichanSenpai, on 01 August 2020 - 09:04 AM, said:

There are so many threads about how much WG wants to screw us by making us repurchase / reequip equipment, it's just amusing how people are not able to read:

 

 

View PostOniichanSenpai, on 01 August 2020 - 10:23 AM, said:

It's a game. I play it for fun and I enjoy it. 

Again. It's a game. 

 



Jin91 #67 Posted 01 August 2020 - 11:06 PM

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View PostOniichanSenpai, on 01 August 2020 - 01:20 PM, said:

 

 

Fixed it for you.

 

No it was 500k., Can't always wait for the sales



Mikanoid #68 Posted 02 August 2020 - 03:27 AM

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View PostOniichanSenpai, on 01 August 2020 - 10:04 AM, said:

There are so many threads about how much WG wants to screw us by making us repurchase / reequip equipment, it's just amusing how people are not able to read:

 

https://worldoftanks.eu/en/news/general-news/equipment-2-0-conversion/

 

To address a few of the common misinformed rants:

 

"I will lose credits because I have to repurchase equipment that does not fit on my vehicle any longer!"

Spoiler

 

"I have to pay gold now to reequip Camo Net, Binos and the Box!"

Spoiler

 

"B-but I have a gazillion of tanks and I swap one pair of camo net and binos around them using a mod!"

Spoiler

Well lol, lets have a look then shall we?

 

Firstly, you have to keep buying DIFFERENT classes of the SAME equipment to use it ALL the way up a line, with current equipment you buy one then move it as you go for ZERO additional gold or silver cost

 

So now instead of 500 silver for one item you will spend around 5000 silver to put one on each vehicle, or lose about 2500 silver selling them and rebuying them, math isnt your strong suit is it?

 

So  "You can equip those as any other equipment and get half of the price back when you sell the tank, as any other equipment. This is now much cheaper and more feasible than it was before." You think getting back HALF what you paid (LOSING HALF OF  WHAT YOU PAID)) is somehow "cheaper" than being able to move  it for free?

 

Did you actually do math at school? Serious question 

 

Also I suspect that on an A20 it wont be class 1, but class 2 or 3 because its not a tier 8, 9 or 10

 

But as most of the complaints are actually about the free equipment that wont be free any more I fail to see the relevance of other equipment really which practically NOBODY is actually complaining about YET, that wont start till they see how much more OP it makes the already broken tanks and then the complaints wont be related to cost or moving them anyway so what youre blathering on about is just a tad irrelevant really on ALL levels

 

Secondly 

 

You "Equipment 2.0 will not cost you a single credit (let alone gold)"

ALSO YOU "You can equip those as any other equipment and get half of the price back when you sell the tank, as any other equipment. This is now much cheaper and more feasible than it was before."

 

Would that be them losing HALF OF THE CREDITS? You know, the things you said it wouldnt cost them a single one of? Those credits?

 

Also, the higher classes cost MORE than the existing versions, so they ACTUALLY lose more than if they HAD to sell the current versions (which they DONT because they can move them FOR FREE)

 

And lol at the last one

 

The removal kits ON SALE in the store you mean? That you buy WITH CREDITS, you know, the things you said it wouldnt cost any of,,,,, THOSE credits?

 

So thats 0 for 3, not doing very well are you?



Infryndiira #69 Posted 02 August 2020 - 04:43 AM

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View PostTeluminos, on 01 August 2020 - 09:23 PM, said:

 

Why are you replying me with a Tier 6 Heavy being overequiped if my example was a Tier 8 medium beeing underequiped?

 

And no I understand I can keep it for the current update but read what I quoted again this does not imply you can just swap it around or remove mismatched equipment It clearly implies that they intent of removing it:

 

The end part is what worries me not the rest I never implied I could not swap between slots and I do understand when wargaming gives me a warning I would not be able to remount it, even though I do not really see what they had to mess with the Equipment that was already there before price whise.

I do not see where anything actually gets cheaper for new players as most things have a higher base price.

As for your discount values yes you would get a profit in case you bought on a sale, however those weren't common in the early years, so not every piece of equipment would follow that, because only IF you got it on discount you would have this benefit otherwise that is still a loss.

Nobody argues that lower tier tanks for new players should be cheaper to gear out, but the fact any tier 8 and above medium and light basically looses on this metric because if you do demount something or if the upper message implies its gonna be done later no matter what this one is up in the air for me that means you will have to buy more expensive equipment to achieve the same function as the current patch.

 

Here some things that wargaming could have done:

Equipment would be fitted to the tank it is equiped on Currently.

This way people do not loose the access to the current outfit in any way even if they wanna experiment, because lets face it if wargaming tells me I would need to buy 600k (300k if on sale) Vents or Rammer if I want to experiment with the new gear on any of my High Tier tanks?

If you don't like your new kit on said medium tank there is after all no way to go straight back to its gear under this system.

Even if you argue that would make people gain money it would be essentially a win win because this way you could demount your stuff on any tank and can go back if you don't like what you get, and it would be pro user since everything would indeed go up in value and since this is a Closed economy even the people who would use this right now to get some free cash on selling stuff it does not harm anyone does it?

On no angle is the way wargaming is handling this good for the end user in this iteration.

I have 23 Medium tanks tier 8 and above kitted out and 5 light tanks, with that I could actually use the new system, instead now I gotta worry about their vague comment and would need to pay at least 600k if i do experiment (considering sale price would mean the new equipment and then for example the Vents) if i did want to go back after trying something new out.

 

Or who knows, maybe just get rid of demounting costs alltogether and make all equipment cheaper in general its not hurting anyone, I doubt many people would complain about equipment becoming cheaper instead of more expensive.

 

The point here is they went for the route that is infact the least Consumer Friendly for old players, and thats why I am quite unhappy as things are.

 

The last part is interesting, but for me wargaming did not emphasis at what exactly can be equiped In such special cases.

Don't get me wrong I thank you for telling me this, but since their post litterly says Some Tier VIII or higher.

It did not tell me exactly what and that's not a good thing for a company to do with such huge change what qualifies what doesn't.

If I have to right now guess wich Tanks Tier 8 or higher could use what Class 2 equipment, then that doesn't do much to me and is a bad look on wargamings part.

Kinda implies this has been rushed, so they could not even bother to give us all a full list on wich gear and wich tanks you know...

Tier 8 mediums won't be underequipped. For example, my Object 140, T-62A and Centurion AX on Sandbox and CT all came with their equipment from live, but all was properly fitted; that is, no equipment was required to be changed in the future, such as with the Tiger 131. They require Class 2 Gun Rammers, specifically, which is what Medium Calibre Gun Rammers are being converted to; and other equipment they can mount is also sometimes Class 2 rather than Class 1 (eg. Improved Hardening, and others). Other vehicles also benefit from this: for example, the Strv 103B requires a Class 2 Camo Net, not a Class 1 Camo Net, despite being Tier 10.

 

Basically, if the equipment matches the tank, it won't be dropped or whatever. You can personally check which of your tanks will be over- or under-equipped by logging in the Common Test server. Just install the SD client, log on, and check your garage. And given the vehicle-by-vehicle peculiarities such as those listed above, you will mostly need your demounting kits (free or otherwise) for tier 8+ vehicles you want to experiment with.

 

Here's some specifics, tested with tier 8+ vehicles from Common Test:

  • My Centurion 5/1, Obj 430, Obj 140 and Strv 103B both require Class 2 Rammers, Hardening, Vents, Camo Nets, as well as Medium Spall Liners. Everything else required is Class 1.
  • My Sheridan requires Class 3 Vents, Class 2 Hardening & Camo Net, Light Spall Liner. Everything else is Class 1. Keep in mind that it mounts a 152mm Gun-Launcher, hence the Class 1 Rammer included.
  • My M41 90mm and M41D both require the same as the Sheridan, except they instead use Class 2 Rammers.

 

It's interesting that the Object 430 uses a Class 2 Rammer despite having a 122mm gun, and I honestly can't remember if I unequipped a Class 1 Rammer on it or not prior to beginning my tests in CT. This might be a case of a vehicle being under-equipped, but in turn that means that it will require cheaper equipment in the future.

 

In short, the costs for the equipment they can already mount is what they will require in the future as well. It's simply that not all tier 8+ vehicles need Class 1 equipment in every slot, just like they don't need large-caliber gun rammers or heavy tank vents right now.

 

If the equipment changed classes depending on what tank it was fitted on, however, you would lose out in equipment worth millions of credit (whether we measure by purchase price or sale price) because low and middle tier vehicles will no longer require things such as what will become Class 1 Vents or Rammers regardless of their class (the Tiger 131 serves as a brilliant example here).

 

You can personally check each and every single one of your tanks in Common Test, but the rule of thumb for 8+ is "if it can mount X right now, it can mount Y after patch, with Y being the replacement equipment that is closest to the price of the equipment X on live".

 

And, no offence, but all this has been in publicly available testing since July 2. There have been several sandbox and common test iterations, and simply logging in to any single one of them would allow you to answer such questions.



Mikanoid #70 Posted 02 August 2020 - 05:16 AM

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View PostInfryndiira, on 02 August 2020 - 04:43 AM, said:

Tier 8 mediums won't be underequipped. For example, my Object 140, T-62A and Centurion AX on Sandbox and CT all came with their equipment from live, but all was properly fitted; that is, no equipment was required to be changed in the future, such as with the Tiger 131. They require Class 2 Gun Rammers, specifically, which is what Medium Calibre Gun Rammers are being converted to; and other equipment they can mount is also sometimes Class 2 rather than Class 1 (eg. Improved Hardening, and others). Other vehicles also benefit from this: for example, the Strv 103B requires a Class 2 Camo Net, not a Class 1 Camo Net, despite being Tier 10.

 

Basically, if the equipment matches the tank, it won't be dropped or whatever. You can personally check which of your tanks will be over- or under-equipped by logging in the Common Test server. Just install the SD client, log on, and check your garage. And given the vehicle-by-vehicle peculiarities such as those listed above, you will mostly need your demounting kits (free or otherwise) for tier 8+ vehicles you want to experiment with.

 

Here's some specifics, tested with tier 8+ vehicles from Common Test:

  • My Centurion 5/1, Obj 430, Obj 140 and Strv 103B both require Class 2 Rammers, Hardening, Vents, Camo Nets, as well as Medium Spall Liners. Everything else required is Class 1.
  • My Sheridan requires Class 3 Vents, Class 2 Hardening & Camo Net, Light Spall Liner. Everything else is Class 1. Keep in mind that it mounts a 152mm Gun-Launcher, hence the Class 1 Rammer included.
  • My M41 90mm and M41D both require the same as the Sheridan, except they instead use Class 2 Rammers.

 

It's interesting that the Object 430 uses a Class 2 Rammer despite having a 122mm gun, and I honestly can't remember if I unequipped a Class 1 Rammer on it or not prior to beginning my tests in CT. This might be a case of a vehicle being under-equipped, but in turn that means that it will require cheaper equipment in the future.

 

In short, the costs for the equipment they can already mount is what they will require in the future as well. It's simply that not all tier 8+ vehicles need Class 1 equipment in every slot, just like they don't need large-caliber gun rammers or heavy tank vents right now.

 

If the equipment changed classes depending on what tank it was fitted on, however, you would lose out in equipment worth millions of credit (whether we measure by purchase price or sale price) because low and middle tier vehicles will no longer require things such as what will become Class 1 Vents or Rammers regardless of their class (the Tiger 131 serves as a brilliant example here).

 

You can personally check each and every single one of your tanks in Common Test, but the rule of thumb for 8+ is "if it can mount X right now, it can mount Y after patch, with Y being the replacement equipment that is closest to the price of the equipment X on live".

 

And, no offence, but all this has been in publicly available testing since July 2. There have been several sandbox and common test iterations, and simply logging in to any single one of them would allow you to answer such questions.

The other think people dont seem to have mentioned is that not everyone wants to keep paying over and over for equipment on tanks when they have tanks they hate or dont want to play. whereas before you could just unmount it and use it on a different tank the new system is designed to  give you equipment that once dismounted might not even be ABLE to be fitted on the tanks you want to equip, so you have to buy more equipment than you have tanks needing it because its the wrong class for the vehicle you want to equip

 

So that equipment  then either sits on a tank you dont play or in the depot unused whilst you have to waste more silver you could have been using for upgrades or buying new tanks just to equip a tank that needs the exact same equipment but at a different class despite being the same class of tank

 

Not as wide reaching an issue as many of others, but just another one on the endless list of what is wrong with the equipment 2.0 wallet gouging exercise

 

Where now if you have a tank line where you might have used binos and cammo all the way up the line costing you a 1 off 600 credit expense for the ENTIRE line, now you will be looking at either

 

6,200,000 credits if you leave them on each tank OR 

3,800,000 credits if you sell them each time or

700,000 and 170 "gold best case"

 

Compared to a one off 600,000 now and NOTHING ELSE

 

So how on earth there is ANYONE trying to claim its "cheaper" is just beyond me lol

 

And thats just ONE tank line to tier 10, just one. How many lines are there?

Basically just to use two  of the currently free to move pieces of equipment on a tank now you will have lost the entire cost of a tier 10 tank

 

Wow, these WG "improvements" arent very good  


Edited by Mikanoid, 02 August 2020 - 05:17 AM.


Slyspy #71 Posted 02 August 2020 - 10:58 AM

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The only thing that I've learnt from this thread is that people use binocs, nets and toolboxes far too often. 

CmdRatScabies #72 Posted 02 August 2020 - 11:00 AM

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View PostSlyspy, on 02 August 2020 - 10:58 AM, said:

The only thing that I've learnt from this thread is that people use binocs, nets and toolboxes far too often. 

And own more than one of each, which is an eye opener.



FizzleMcSnizzle #73 Posted 02 August 2020 - 11:01 AM

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View PostSlyspy, on 02 August 2020 - 10:58 AM, said:

The only thing that I've learnt from this thread is that people use binocs, nets and toolboxes far too often. 

Not really where binos are concerned, particularly at lower tiers. Vision is key down there. I'll put them in almost anything. 



Slyspy #74 Posted 02 August 2020 - 11:09 AM

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View PostFizzleMcSnizzle, on 02 August 2020 - 11:01 AM, said:

Not really where binos are concerned, particularly at lower tiers. Vision is key down there. I'll put them in almost anything. 

 

Yes, but 300k vehicle carrying at least 500k of equipment has always seemed odd. Especially when facing new pkayers who barely have two pennies to rub together. 



FizzleMcSnizzle #75 Posted 02 August 2020 - 11:14 AM

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View PostSlyspy, on 02 August 2020 - 11:09 AM, said:

 

Yes, but 300k vehicle carrying at least 500k of equipment has always seemed odd. Especially when facing new pkayers who barely have two pennies to rub together. 

I think more experienced players will gather in greater numbers than ever at lower tiers now. You have to be pretty committed to find any pleasure at tier X as it is. 



Private_Miros #76 Posted 02 August 2020 - 11:55 AM

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View PostSlyspy, on 02 August 2020 - 10:09 AM, said:

 

Yes, but 300k vehicle carrying at least 500k of equipment has always seemed odd. Especially when facing new pkayers who barely have two pennies to rub together. 

 

Which is why a single investment for 1 binocs, 1 camo net and 1 toolbox that you can move around and cover dozens of tanks with made sense.



FizzleMcSnizzle #77 Posted 02 August 2020 - 11:59 AM

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View PostPrivate_Miros, on 02 August 2020 - 11:55 AM, said:

 

Which is why a single investment for 1 binocs, 1 camo net and 1 toolbox that you can move around and cover dozens of tanks with made sense.

Indeed. The pro sealclubber, who CAN afford to equip each of his  favourite sealclubbing tanks with nets and binos, will be at an even bigger advantage now. 



Enherjaren #78 Posted 02 August 2020 - 12:04 PM

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View PostInfryndiira, on 01 August 2020 - 02:20 PM, said:

As of dismounting kits, you receive up to 30 automatically, plus 21 via missions, plus 90 purchasable for credits during 1.10 for a total of 141. That's like giving up to 1410 gold per player in exchange for logging in, playing as you normally do, and spend approximately 3.4 million credits.

 


That is NOT like giving players 1410 gold for logging on.


That is more like getting your salary in food stamps instead of money.
Food stamps that you can't sell and only you can use them.

Or say you buy a new car and the dealership put a a new turbo-charger in it.
The turbo-charger will stop working next week, but it's fine we will sell you this demount-kit that fix everything. 


Edited by Enherjaren, 02 August 2020 - 12:06 PM.


Bora_BOOM #79 Posted 02 August 2020 - 12:58 PM

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I am an intelligent, educated and math savy person.

After reading most of the posts, I just partially understand what will happen.

In order to fully understand I should deep-dive in calculations, specs of new equipment, layouts, current tanks in my garage and all the half-assed explanations WG gave us.

 

That all being said my conclusion is that I will simply not bother to do all that crap. What will happen is that I will probably miss the best chance to adopt to the stupid unnecessary changes, spend a fortune of credits to buy what I will need after the changes. And still end being short for some tanks. 

 

My choice is not to give a f.uck, exactly as WG feels about all of the players who were taking care of running the tanks and game budget in the most optimal way so far.

 

When all the equipment shenanigans end I will come back and shitpost about the whole thing. That is easier.

 

Oh, another thing also got easier - keeping my wallet closed. So, to the WG's initial idea of milking this player I say one thing:

 

haha.jpg


Edited by Bora_BOOM, 02 August 2020 - 01:02 PM.


Teluminos #80 Posted 02 August 2020 - 01:36 PM

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View PostInfryndiira, on 02 August 2020 - 04:43 AM, said:

Tier 8 mediums won't be underequipped. For example, my Object 140, T-62A and Centurion AX on Sandbox and CT all came with their equipment from live, but all was properly fitted; that is, no equipment was required to be changed in the future, such as with the Tiger 131. They require Class 2 Gun Rammers, specifically, which is what Medium Calibre Gun Rammers are being converted to; and other equipment they can mount is also sometimes Class 2 rather than Class 1 (eg. Improved Hardening, and others). Other vehicles also benefit from this: for example, the Strv 103B requires a Class 2 Camo Net, not a Class 1 Camo Net, despite being Tier 10.

 

Basically, if the equipment matches the tank, it won't be dropped or whatever. You can personally check which of your tanks will be over- or under-equipped by logging in the Common Test server. Just install the SD client, log on, and check your garage. And given the vehicle-by-vehicle peculiarities such as those listed above, you will mostly need your demounting kits (free or otherwise) for tier 8+ vehicles you want to experiment with.

 

Here's some specifics, tested with tier 8+ vehicles from Common Test:

  • My Centurion 5/1, Obj 430, Obj 140 and Strv 103B both require Class 2 Rammers, Hardening, Vents, Camo Nets, as well as Medium Spall Liners. Everything else required is Class 1.
  • My Sheridan requires Class 3 Vents, Class 2 Hardening & Camo Net, Light Spall Liner. Everything else is Class 1. Keep in mind that it mounts a 152mm Gun-Launcher, hence the Class 1 Rammer included.
  • My M41 90mm and M41D both require the same as the Sheridan, except they instead use Class 2 Rammers.

 

It's interesting that the Object 430 uses a Class 2 Rammer despite having a 122mm gun, and I honestly can't remember if I unequipped a Class 1 Rammer on it or not prior to beginning my tests in CT. This might be a case of a vehicle being under-equipped, but in turn that means that it will require cheaper equipment in the future.

 

In short, the costs for the equipment they can already mount is what they will require in the future as well. It's simply that not all tier 8+ vehicles need Class 1 equipment in every slot, just like they don't need large-caliber gun rammers or heavy tank vents right now.

 

If the equipment changed classes depending on what tank it was fitted on, however, you would lose out in equipment worth millions of credit (whether we measure by purchase price or sale price) because low and middle tier vehicles will no longer require things such as what will become Class 1 Vents or Rammers regardless of their class (the Tiger 131 serves as a brilliant example here).

 

You can personally check each and every single one of your tanks in Common Test, but the rule of thumb for 8+ is "if it can mount X right now, it can mount Y after patch, with Y being the replacement equipment that is closest to the price of the equipment X on live".

 

And, no offence, but all this has been in publicly available testing since July 2. There have been several sandbox and common test iterations, and simply logging in to any single one of them would allow you to answer such questions.

 

You do not see this an issue?

Your telling me to have to check every tank weather the equipment will work or not after the patch on it, how is that a more simple system for the end user how wargaming marketed, this more convinient and simple?

Current system says have a medium tank use vents class 2 have a heavy tank thats class 3, and rammers are based on how big your gun is, everyone for the past 10 years has used the system perfectly fine I never seen a single topic go "God i wish they would completely change how that mounting system works"

 

To quote the current newspost again:

 

Block Quote

 

As all of the above aspects are closely interconnected, we’re conducting a comprehensive rework of the equipment system. Our top priorities are:

  • Simplifying the choice and use of all equipment.
  • Increasing diversity, including various modifications used by players.
  • Make equipment more affordable for low and medium tiers.

 

How is it more simple if I have to go around now and check weather my Tank will be using Tier 1 or 2?

How is a system that has so many exceptions anything but botched in terms of making it simple for the user?

If everyone playing this game will have to check, wich tank gets what and having to make to make their own list that's not simple that's literally the opposite of Simplifying things.

 

That is a direct failure of their objective plain and simple...

 

Now to go to your example on the main server currently I have no heavy Tank below tier 8 equiped with its respective equipment that's currently all mounted on my higher tier tanks since I play those more often, infact your killing your own point, because right now I can just take my tier 8 heavy tank stuff and put it on my own Tiger 131, but wont be able to do that in the future anymore meaning that's another part where something that was straight foreward was overhauled for no benefit to any end user.

 

Your telling me sale prices exceptions to the rules, wich literally is killing the topics point and your own this is not more convinent for the user and that's why people hate it.

Everything you say is basically right, but your missing the point of why this isn't a well thought out system if it has tons of exeptions ifs and buts for people and got so complicated they had to make 2 articles just explaining this new system while saying their goal is to make this more simple.

 

You cant say well if you bought it in the past on a sale you'd be making a profit if you sell it after the patch because sales used to be very rare especially in the early years so old users most likely have more full price equipment then discounted pieces, yeah your earlier example of sale price also only works if everyone always bought their medium rammer and vents class 2 on a sale, otherwise they will still loose more then they gain.

This topic is about why people aren't loosing value and your own explanation at least, while there is some rare player cases where you do not loose value, you will indeed loose the convinence of using the system that worked fine since this games beta.







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