Medium tanks 9: E50 vs T54 vs M46 vs Bat C...
Rkrustnesis
08 Jan 2012
Comparison of medium tanks lvl 9 .
Guns
Defens
Hull Armor (mm)
Front : Side : Rear : Total Hull Armor
E50 : 120 - 80 - 80 - 280
T54 : 120 - 80 - 45 - 245
M46 : 102 - 76 - 51 - 229
Bat : 60 - 40 - 30 - 130
TOP Turret Armor (mm)
Front : Side : Rear : Total Turret Armor
E50 : 185 - 80 - 80 - 425
T54 : 200 - 160 - 65 - 340
M46 : 114 - 76 - 76 - 266
BAT : 50 - 30 - 15 - 95
Guns ( Dmg per minute )
E50 - 2730 : T54 2688 : M46 - 2999 : Bat Chatillon 25 t - 2400 (?)
+/-
E50
+[/b]
Best front armor . (120 what are equal to the T54 )
Biggest hit Points in level.
Big View Range. (460)
Best Aiming time in level.
Best Weapons Accuracy.
Very good max speed.
Very good acceleration.
-
Small top turrets traverse speed.
Slow maneuvering.
Weak side and rear armor.
Very big size tank , easy to hit .
Sniper that can be good in defens and attack . Only problem are that so many players are drive on E50 like it is T54 .
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
T54
+
Best maneuvering speed in level .
Best Total Turret Armor .
Tank are very low , hard to hit it .
Small tank , harder to detect it .
Have screens .
Have very ricochet front armor .
-
Not so many hit points .
Poor accuracy on the move .
Poor patency of the swamps and the ground .
Slow aiming time .
Poor vertical angles .
Rush rush rush . That only thing what can do this tank , but it is doing that very good .
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
M46 Patton
+
Magnificent vertical angles .
Small speed loss when maneuvering .
Best view range in level ( 480 )
Good accuracy on the move .
-[/]
Weak hull and turret armor ( paper tank )
Small max speed for medium tank.
Big tank , easy to hit easy to see .
Patton are very good tank . But its main problem are that his tank dont have specialization .
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bat Chatillon 25 t
[b]+
Epic fast acceleration .
Auto loader can shot very fast 6 shots .
Good accuracy .
Very small tank , hard to hit .
Best max speed in level . (65km/h)
Best penetration in level
[b]-
Not so many hit points .
Vert weak armor (glass tank)
Small tank , so one hit can do many critical dmg .
Very long reloding time .
Small alfa strike ( 300 )
Hit and run . This tank can be killer , but if enemy will find you , when your tank reloading ....
Guns
Defens
Hull Armor (mm)
Front : Side : Rear : Total Hull Armor
E50 : 120 - 80 - 80 - 280
T54 : 120 - 80 - 45 - 245
M46 : 102 - 76 - 51 - 229
Bat : 60 - 40 - 30 - 130
TOP Turret Armor (mm)
Front : Side : Rear : Total Turret Armor
E50 : 185 - 80 - 80 - 425
T54 : 200 - 160 - 65 - 340
M46 : 114 - 76 - 76 - 266
BAT : 50 - 30 - 15 - 95
Guns ( Dmg per minute )
E50 - 2730 : T54 2688 : M46 - 2999 : Bat Chatillon 25 t - 2400 (?)
+/-
E50
+[/b]
Best front armor . (120 what are equal to the T54 )
Biggest hit Points in level.
Big View Range. (460)
Best Aiming time in level.
Best Weapons Accuracy.
Very good max speed.
Very good acceleration.
-
Small top turrets traverse speed.
Slow maneuvering.
Weak side and rear armor.
Very big size tank , easy to hit .
Sniper that can be good in defens and attack . Only problem are that so many players are drive on E50 like it is T54 .
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
T54
+
Best maneuvering speed in level .
Best Total Turret Armor .
Tank are very low , hard to hit it .
Small tank , harder to detect it .
Have screens .
Have very ricochet front armor .
-
Not so many hit points .
Poor accuracy on the move .
Poor patency of the swamps and the ground .
Slow aiming time .
Poor vertical angles .
Rush rush rush . That only thing what can do this tank , but it is doing that very good .
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
M46 Patton
+
Magnificent vertical angles .
Small speed loss when maneuvering .
Best view range in level ( 480 )
Good accuracy on the move .
-[/]
Weak hull and turret armor ( paper tank )
Small max speed for medium tank.
Big tank , easy to hit easy to see .
Patton are very good tank . But its main problem are that his tank dont have specialization .
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bat Chatillon 25 t
[b]+
Epic fast acceleration .
Auto loader can shot very fast 6 shots .
Good accuracy .
Very small tank , hard to hit .
Best max speed in level . (65km/h)
Best penetration in level
[b]-
Not so many hit points .
Vert weak armor (glass tank)
Small tank , so one hit can do many critical dmg .
Very long reloding time .
Small alfa strike ( 300 )
Hit and run . This tank can be killer , but if enemy will find you , when your tank reloading ....
ahtrend
08 Jan 2012
what i noticed from the frechies is that all of them can be penetrated everywhere by everyone, loving them so far 
for the other 3 ... hmmm e50 is the onlyone i have problems with
for the other 3 ... hmmm e50 is the onlyone i have problems with
Zowie
08 Jan 2012
I like the up close brawling, running around in circles of the russian, still only on the 44 tho, cant wait to get the 54 
Nice writeup btw
Nice writeup btw
Army02
08 Jan 2012
best tank for me is the patton i can shot at driving and ive u have enough battles on the tank u have some bounce on it
best round with it 2400xp 8 kills not double i like this tank very much ^^
best round with it 2400xp 8 kills not double i like this tank very much ^^
Cobra6
09 Jan 2012
Another negative aspect of the E-50:
The shell cost, the shells cost 25% more than the Patton ones, even though the stats are the ~same.
Cobra 6
The shell cost, the shells cost 25% more than the Patton ones, even though the stats are the ~same.
Cobra 6
Uanubis
09 Jan 2012
I vote for T-54, because everytime I meet 1v1 any other med I usually come out winner with 60%ish HP left (I personally love fights with E-50s - it's so easy to flank them). So in my opinion if you play E-50 as a med you are mad - it's a good TD with decent maneuverability, but if you play it like med you'll get sliced as butter (my personal experience with the slicing )
)
ogremage
09 Jan 2012
Poll clearly shows Patton badly needs buffing. New HE and armour normalization changes have buffed its peers while the Bat is super OP.
Arkhell
09 Jan 2012
ogremage, on 09 January 2012 - 11:21 AM, said:
Poll clearly shows Patton badly needs buffing. New HE and armour normalization changes have buffed its peers while the Bat is super OP.
Are you insane? only thing it might need is a bid more accuracy in the gun, it frigging owns the crap out of everything.
It sees you before you see it, and it has a whooping 3000 dpm, i can kill an full hp IS-4 in a front slugging match (was pressed into that couldn't help it). and it can shoot from retarded positions which makes it allmost inpenetrable for the enemy cause hey have to shoot up.
Patton is a tank that needs brains, do not buff it it will be overpowered and more people will flock to it. I rather have a hard tank to drive that excells at flanking,scouting and killing stuff, then have a normal tank that just facerolls over people.
ogremage
09 Jan 2012
Back when I responded only 14% thought it is the best tier 9 med. I think you voted and someone else voted and now it is in third place, but still lagging behind badly.
The IS-4 was probably a noob with no rammer, 50% crew (with loader dead or drunk in barracks) and shooting your gun mantlet every time.
Do you disagree that the recent armour normalization and HE changes have made E-50s and T-54 (let alone most tier 9 heavies) even harder to tackle for low-tier opponents, while Patton has stayed the same? So effectively, Patton's competition has been buffed, but it has remained the same? So effectively, Patton has been nerfed?
Since 7.0 my Patton winrate has been steadily falling and E-50 winrate steadily rising. With 7.1 and Bat it may only get worse.
Really the only reason why Patton doesn't underperform in winrate stats is that mostly good players like you play it, driving up winrates artificially. Bad players stick to T-54 and E-50 where the armour saves them, and thus these tanks have worse winrates than their performance dictates. That is a flaw in WG's winrate based tank balancing.
And that is why an average player struggles with Patton, meaning it is a worse tank than the competition.
The IS-4 was probably a noob with no rammer, 50% crew (with loader dead or drunk in barracks) and shooting your gun mantlet every time.
Do you disagree that the recent armour normalization and HE changes have made E-50s and T-54 (let alone most tier 9 heavies) even harder to tackle for low-tier opponents, while Patton has stayed the same? So effectively, Patton's competition has been buffed, but it has remained the same? So effectively, Patton has been nerfed?
Since 7.0 my Patton winrate has been steadily falling and E-50 winrate steadily rising. With 7.1 and Bat it may only get worse.
Really the only reason why Patton doesn't underperform in winrate stats is that mostly good players like you play it, driving up winrates artificially. Bad players stick to T-54 and E-50 where the armour saves them, and thus these tanks have worse winrates than their performance dictates. That is a flaw in WG's winrate based tank balancing.
And that is why an average player struggles with Patton, meaning it is a worse tank than the competition.
Arkhell
09 Jan 2012
ogremage, on 09 January 2012 - 12:13 PM, said:
Back when I responded only 14% thought it is the best tier 9 med. I think you voted and someone else voted and now it is in third place, but still lagging behind badly.
The IS-4 was probably a noob with no rammer, 50% crew (with loader dead or drunk in barracks) and shooting your gun mantlet every time.
The IS-4 was probably a noob with no rammer, 50% crew (with loader dead or drunk in barracks) and shooting your gun mantlet every time.
nope he got first shot on me came from behind while i was killing an ISU that just shot and missed me) penetrated every shot, 105 has such a high RoF and Dmg a shot it can out dmg him and i didn't have any bounces either
ogremage, on 09 January 2012 - 12:13 PM, said:
Do you disagree that the recent armour normalization and HE changes have made E-50s and T-54 (let alone most tier 9 heavies) even harder to tackle for low-tier opponents, while Patton has stayed the same? So effectively, Patton's competition has been buffed, but it has remained the same? So effectively, Patton has been nerfed?
Gun on the patton is still enough to penetrate them both head on, only thing it has trouble with is IS-4 and IS-7 at range from the front IMHO (but every gun has that since the patch) and you're not suppost to shot that paper hull of yours just the turret, preffably when your shooting down at them and they have to shoot up (something a chat bat can't even do thanks to crappy gun depresston and elevation thanks to that freak of nature turret design).
ogremage, on 09 January 2012 - 12:13 PM, said:
Since 7.0 my Patton winrate has been steadily falling and E-50 winrate steadily rising. With 7.1 and Bat it may only get worse.
people saw it in battle wanted one turned out it's not such a friendly tank to play with
ogremage, on 09 January 2012 - 12:13 PM, said:
Really the only reason why Patton doesn't underperform in winrate stats is that mostly good players like you play it, driving up winrates artificially. Bad players stick to T-54 and E-50 where the armour saves them, and thus these tanks have worse winrates than their performance dictates. That is a flaw in WG's winrate based tank balancing.
won't argue with that, it's indeed a flawed way to balance tanks, allthough the patton imho is really balanced, it a totally OP tank when played right buffing it will really make it OP though. E-50 is basicly a KT that drives way faster and T54 is an ufo tank tank that is allmost imume to lower tier fire but gets ripped to shreds by everything with a usefull gun.
ogremage, on 09 January 2012 - 12:13 PM, said:
And that is why an average player struggles with Patton, meaning it is a worse tank than the competition.
yeah but the problem with that is, it's a hard tank to learn, a solid tank ones adepted to and a really strong tank when mastered.
making it strong will make it easyer to learn, make it a really strong tank when learned and a frigging OP tank when mastared.
it's a delicate cituation just like the german tanks, they have a higher skill treshhold then the russians thanks to lower alfa and crappy side armor/ lower plate and gearbox, but when used right they shine. If you put equall skilled people in the current tier 9 meds i bet they end up winning and loosing from eachother equally.
ogremage
09 Jan 2012
Arkhell, on 09 January 2012 - 01:37 PM, said:
If you put equall skilled people in the current tier 9 meds i bet they end up winning and loosing from eachother equally.
.My claim is as follows: if you take the average skilled player (e.g., 48.5% wins, 48.5% losses guy) and give him 3 tier 9 meds (Patton, E-50, T-54) then he will do worst with the Patton for a long while (until he raises his skills to no longer be average skilled).
But my main point is that 7.0 effectively indirectly buffed the other tanks, with no compensation for Patton. It is not just about whether Patton's shots on enemies bounce more (and they do, and due to imprecision has harder time aiming at weak-points). It is also about whether low-tiers (e.g., Type59 which now plays with them way more) can damage those meds. And in case of T-54 and E-50 they are almost immune. In case of Patton he isn't, the armour is still paper.
Arkhell
10 Jan 2012
ogremage, on 09 January 2012 - 03:41 PM, said:
But my main point is that 7.0 effectively indirectly buffed the other tanks, with no compensation for Patton. It is not just about whether Patton's shots on enemies bounce more (and they do, and due to imprecision has harder time aiming at weak-points). It is also about whether low-tiers (e.g., Type59 which now plays with them way more) can damage those meds. And in case of T-54 and E-50 they are almost immune. In case of Patton he isn't, the armour is still paper.
Type 59 as example again.
VS E-50: lower plate sides, back, side and back turret copula.
VS T-54: Lower plate and seem (harder to hit) copula side and back turret also but thats a bid of a hit or miss thanks to it's slope.
VS M46: front entirely but it can bounce now (it also benefits from the amor buff, were it used to allmost never bounce it does now), copulas (front turret is to sloped) sides and back like always and side and back turret.
not to much difference, and besides if the patton is hill shooting the type needs to fire up into extra artificial slope and the patton just needs to generally aim in the types direction with a very high chance to ammorack if he actually does aim for teh right side of the Type (right side of the tank seen from teh Type driver, left side seen from the m46)
ogremage
10 Jan 2012
No, that's not my point.
Take the guy in a KV w/ 105mm gun or noob in Type59 (both using HE on every high tier tank). Previously dealing a couple of hundred DMG vs E-50 and T-54 on every shot. Now often dealing no damage or ridiculous 30 dmg on every shot vs them, but still near full damage vs Patton.
Take the guy in a KV w/ 105mm gun or noob in Type59 (both using HE on every high tier tank). Previously dealing a couple of hundred DMG vs E-50 and T-54 on every shot. Now often dealing no damage or ridiculous 30 dmg on every shot vs them, but still near full damage vs Patton.
Arkhell
10 Jan 2012
ogremage, on 10 January 2012 - 12:35 PM, said:
No, that's not my point.
Take the guy in a KV w/ 105mm gun or noob in Type59 (both using HE on every high tier tank). Previously dealing a couple of hundred DMG vs E-50 and T-54 on every shot. Now often dealing no damage or ridiculous 30 dmg on every shot vs them, but still near full damage vs Patton.
Take the guy in a KV w/ 105mm gun or noob in Type59 (both using HE on every high tier tank). Previously dealing a couple of hundred DMG vs E-50 and T-54 on every shot. Now often dealing no damage or ridiculous 30 dmg on every shot vs them, but still near full damage vs Patton.
yeah i know it's a weaker tank normally, but if you make it stronger it will litterly roll over every other tank in game cause for it's weaker nature is compensated by not so obvious really strong pro's. this makes it a special tank that can and will hold it's own when used correctly, if you remove to weak points it still has the old strong point plus the new ones... it would be unstoppable.
trispect
10 Jan 2012
Problem with Patton is that if it is buffed it will be OP in hands of a good Patton player. Problem if it remains unchanged is that it is useless at endgame-content (CW) due to low speed.
Copula?
Sorry about that, but I kinda get annoyed of how many ways word cupola can be misspell...
So far I have spotted: Copula, Coppula, Cuppula, Cappule, Coppule, Cuppola and I guess that I forgot few. This might be the pet peeve after that people write 'to' instead of 'too'.
"The gun bounce to much!!"
"Sorry the gun bounce to where? Much? "
EDIT: Forgot to put smiley =)
Arkhell, on 10 January 2012 - 08:14 AM, said:
Type 59 as example again.
VS E-50: lower plate sides, back, side and back turret copula.
VS T-54: Lower plate and seem (harder to hit) copula side and back turret also but thats a bid of a hit or miss thanks to it's slope.
VS M46: front entirely but it can bounce now (it also benefits from the amor buff, were it used to allmost never bounce it does now), copulas (front turret is to sloped) sides and back like always and side and back turret.
not to much difference, and besides if the patton is hill shooting the type needs to fire up into extra artificial slope and the patton just needs to generally aim in the types direction with a very high chance to ammorack if he actually does aim for teh right side of the Type (right side of the tank seen from teh Type driver, left side seen from the m46)
VS E-50: lower plate sides, back, side and back turret copula.
VS T-54: Lower plate and seem (harder to hit) copula side and back turret also but thats a bid of a hit or miss thanks to it's slope.
VS M46: front entirely but it can bounce now (it also benefits from the amor buff, were it used to allmost never bounce it does now), copulas (front turret is to sloped) sides and back like always and side and back turret.
not to much difference, and besides if the patton is hill shooting the type needs to fire up into extra artificial slope and the patton just needs to generally aim in the types direction with a very high chance to ammorack if he actually does aim for teh right side of the Type (right side of the tank seen from teh Type driver, left side seen from the m46)
Copula?
Sorry about that, but I kinda get annoyed of how many ways word cupola can be misspell...
So far I have spotted: Copula, Coppula, Cuppula, Cappule, Coppule, Cuppola and I guess that I forgot few. This might be the pet peeve after that people write 'to' instead of 'too'.
"The gun bounce to much!!"
"Sorry the gun bounce to where? Much? "
EDIT: Forgot to put smiley =)
Arkhell
10 Jan 2012
trispect, on 10 January 2012 - 01:33 PM, said:
Problem with Patton is that if it is buffed it will be OP in hands of a good Patton player. Problem if it remains unchanged is that it is useless at endgame-content (CW) due to low speed.
Copula?
Sorry about that, but I kinda get annoyed of how many ways word cupola can be misspell...
So far I have spotted: Copula, Coppula, Cuppula, Cappule, Coppule, Cuppola and I guess that I forgot few. This might be the pet peeve after that people write 'to' instead of 'too'.
"The gun bounce to much!!"
"Sorry the gun bounce to where? Much? "
Copula?
Sorry about that, but I kinda get annoyed of how many ways word cupola can be misspell...
So far I have spotted: Copula, Coppula, Cuppula, Cappule, Coppule, Cuppola and I guess that I forgot few. This might be the pet peeve after that people write 'to' instead of 'too'.
"The gun bounce to much!!"
"Sorry the gun bounce to where? Much? "
rogue, rouge, roegu,reugo
think i've seen that before
but yeah not really into checking my spelling much sorry too have made your eyes bleed
Dan_Abnormal
13 Jan 2012
I'm just about to set out on my medium journey (although to be fair I have already started somewhat) I don't want to go down the Russian tree, even if I have already got to the T-43, I give up with them.
I want to know whether I should go German or Yank? or maybe French although I'm not enjoying my AMX 13/75 experience as it's just so brittle.
At the minute I'm thinking either E-50 or Patton but can't decide.
I want to know whether I should go German or Yank? or maybe French although I'm not enjoying my AMX 13/75 experience as it's just so brittle.
At the minute I'm thinking either E-50 or Patton but can't decide.
R0guy
13 Jan 2012
Dushan79, on 13 January 2012 - 03:00 PM, said:
I want to know whether I should go German or Yank? or maybe French although I'm not enjoying my AMX 13/75 experience as it's just so brittle.
At the minute I'm thinking either E-50 or Patton but can't decide.
At the minute I'm thinking either E-50 or Patton but can't decide.
I have played all the mediums so I'll see if i can help you out.
E-50: Essentially a faster Tiger II with a better gun, so if you enjoyed the Tiger II you'll love it. Amazing sniper tank, very fun as a battering ram.
Patton: Similar gameplay to the easy 8, or the T20. So if you liked those you'll enjoy the patton. Gameplay-wise, the best thing this tank has going for it, is it's ability to pop it's turret over hills and shoot people from unexpected directions with one of the highest damage-per-minute guns in the game.
BatChat: Same as AMX 13/75, that i also didn't enjoy but doesn't get screwed by the matchmaker since it's top tier. So think of how you currently perform VS Tigers/Panthers/Jagdpanzer IV/IS etc, and you have an accurate idea of what it's like.
^ So far my pref goes Bat>E50>Patton>T54 .
Hope that helps
PS: And if Clan War performance matters to you, the preference usually goes T54=Bat (size, speed, camo) > Patton (view range) > E50.
Dan_Abnormal
13 Jan 2012
Thanks, I haven't played any of the tanks that you mention so I have nothing to compare against, but I think I'll stick with my plan of going for the E-50. Long long way off yet though!
SapBro
16 Jan 2012
anyone else noticed some insane e50 camo not breaking even when they shot at close distance (10m)? 
