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We need skill based matchmaking

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Poll: We need skill based matchmaking (129 members have cast votes)

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Do you want a skill based matchmaking system?

  1. Yes (40 votes [31.01%])

    Percentage of vote: 31.01%

  2. No (state why in the comments) (89 votes [68.99%])

    Percentage of vote: 68.99%

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Black_Coyote #61 Posted 30 August 2020 - 12:36 PM

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Why many of as want no? Becouse you are affraid to play with others on the same level? 

jabster #62 Posted 30 August 2020 - 12:40 PM

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View PostPrivate_Miros, on 30 August 2020 - 11:21 AM, said:

 

I always find this funny considering the main challenge is to adapt to your team mates and make the best of what the game throws at you. In terms of difficulty the game is a easy or difficult to you as to me as to a great player as to a bad player.

 

Skill based MM in terms of a ranked system would IMO be detrimental to gameplay for the following reasons, for average and above players:

 

1. it kills the variety and defaults each map to a standard approach even more than already the case

2. it would punish early mistakes even more and cause more walkovers

3. it would serve to enhance issues with tank balance, where either everyone just plays the most meta tanks - or rages at team mates who don't and therefor handicap their team - or games are simply 99% decided by the tanks each team gets.

4. It would severely diminish the number of battles that players view as good and therefore fun, increasing the number of totally meh and therefore boring battles. Remember, in a perfectly balanced MM your average damage per game is about 70% of the average HP of that tier, and about 0.7 kills/game.


Depending on just how narrow, or broad, those ranks are I’m not convinced any players except those at the top and bottom end of the spectrum would notice any practical difference. My view, if for the vast majority the link between skill and performance in an individual battle is weak (my opinion) taking skill into account makes little difference except possibly from an almost placebo effect that the battles are set-up ‘fairly’.



beercritch #63 Posted 30 August 2020 - 12:44 PM

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The will not do it because they cant do it.

 

How do you set the skill level that you are in? 

 

As we all know doing the right thing in the game does not necessarily mean you get the reward you deserve in damage dealing / spotting or XP. Sometimes you need to block the advance of half the enemy team just by being in a spot  with good defensive properties. This might just earn you nothing but a win on your stats. 

 

On the other hand you get the guy who goes off half cocked into the enemy with his auto loader and ends up being top damage dealer in your team but is so ineffective your team lose the match.

 

Its simply not black and white as to who should be in whichever division in the game. 

 



Private_Miros #64 Posted 30 August 2020 - 12:44 PM

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View PostPitulusu, on 30 August 2020 - 11:30 AM, said:

1. it will not kill any variety, contrary.

2. better punishing me because i'm bad, than punishing me because half team is already dead after 1 and half minute of play.

3. no more than now, when unicums in they're T67 made T4-T6 unplayable. at least, against better players they are easy to counter.

4. ok, i understood, the unicum feel will disappear... but what about of the other 90% of playerbase which are encountering unicums every battle in they're xxx stock tank?

invite a friend , let him play alone and ask him about the great experience he had beeing always food for players with tenth of thousands battles. now we can't even move those idiot bino and camo from one tank to another...

 

1. Explain. Unpredictability and your team being either good or bad at the situations that come from that are more varied than same skill tried and tested standard approaches.

2. As explained, current MM is much better at rewarding skill and punishing lack of it. Games where half the team is dead will always happen, skill is to get more out of it that someone else in the same situation. Additionally, same skill teams mean that an early advantage for one team is highly unlikely to be lost, leading to more such games where your team melts than now, where teams often throw away advantages.

3. More than now, as a better tank becomes the only marked difference in performance. That also makes it harder to counter not easier.

4. As stated earlier - and pointed out by jabster while I was typing, unicums are such a small percentage that they will most likely be not much affected, I'm talking about what makes the average player stay and play, those occasional good damage and top gun games. It's very human to feel bored by always ending up averagely. Basically you take away what keeps the average player still around despite his partially rightful partially self-inflicted frustrations.

 

To be honest, some points you make are as if you don't play the game, or play it but don't really understand what's going on around you.


Edited by Private_Miros, 30 August 2020 - 12:48 PM.


_LongRangeSniper_ #65 Posted 30 August 2020 - 12:48 PM

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View PostPitulusu, on 30 August 2020 - 11:30 AM, said:

4. ok, i understood, the unicum feel will disappear... but what about of the other 90% of playerbase which are encountering unicums every battle in they're xxx stock tank?

 

Please explain how 0.1% of the playerbase manage to be in every battle?



Pitulusu #66 Posted 30 August 2020 - 12:48 PM

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View PostBlack_Coyote, on 30 August 2020 - 12:36 PM, said:

Why many of as want no? Becouse you are affraid to play with others on the same level? 


This is the only reason, i don't see other whatever they are saying. they will lose that unicum feel gained killing newbies in they're OP tanks with all equipment and best crew.

11:50 Added after 1 minute

View Post_LongRangeSniper_, on 30 August 2020 - 12:48 PM, said:

 

Please explain how 0.1% of the playerbase manage to be in every battle?

yeah, i've exaggerated with unicums, but green players are in all red players battles.



ZlatanArKung #67 Posted 30 August 2020 - 12:55 PM

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View Postbeercritch, on 30 August 2020 - 12:44 PM, said:

The will not do it because they cant do it.

 

How do you set the skill level that you are in? 

 

As we all know doing the right thing in the game does not necessarily mean you get the reward you deserve in damage dealing / spotting or XP. Sometimes you need to block the advance of half the enemy team just by being in a spot  with good defensive properties. This might just earn you nothing but a win on your stats. 

 

On the other hand you get the guy who goes off half cocked into the enemy with his auto loader and ends up being top damage dealer in your team but is so ineffective your team lose the match.

 

Its simply not black and white as to who should be in whichever division in the game. 

 

Setting skill levels is not that hard.

 

You just five everyone same starting rating. 

For each win, a player gains rating,  for each loss, he loses rating. After some time, all players will have a rating that corresponds fairly well with their ability to win games.



Kurat666 #68 Posted 30 August 2020 - 12:56 PM

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all the values they seek for are in single player games. In multyplayer ones there will be always better players than you are. All they really want is single player mode in WoT - but WG should be very careful when programming bots, or better , remove their guns - so our felllow snowflakes can dominate the battlefield ( not including some random rollowers or accidential falls and drownings, thos should be disabled as well maybe)

Pitulusu #69 Posted 30 August 2020 - 01:03 PM

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View PostKurat666, on 30 August 2020 - 12:56 PM, said:

all the values they seek for are in single player games. In multyplayer ones there will be always better players than you are. All they really want is single player mode in WoT - but WG should be very careful when programming bots, or better , remove their guns - so our felllow snowflakes can dominate the battlefield ( not including some random rollowers or accidential falls and drownings, thos should be disabled as well maybe)


I didn't read any comment about single player... the game will me more attractive for new players playing against new players than it is right now when a new player meets after few battles players with tenth of thousands battles... i know you feel like you have the right to punish newbies, but how about them? waiting for years to become ready(equipment and tanks) and have a chance against you?


Edited by Pitulusu, 30 August 2020 - 01:03 PM.


Kurat666 #70 Posted 30 August 2020 - 01:12 PM

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View PostPitulusu, on 30 August 2020 - 02:03 PM, said:


I didn't read any comment about single player... the game will me more attractive for new players playing against new players than it is right now when a new player meets after few battles players with tenth of thousands battles... i know you feel like you have the right to punish newbies, but how about them? waiting for years to become ready(equipment and tanks) and have a chance against you?

I was a beginner once too. I had to play years before I could consider myself even remotely capable of playing well. Traces of that are still seen on my german medium and heavy line stats. Why shouldn`t you?



Pitulusu #71 Posted 30 August 2020 - 01:21 PM

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View PostKurat666, on 30 August 2020 - 01:12 PM, said:

I was a beginner once too. I had to play years before I could consider myself even remotely capable of playing well. Traces of that are still seen on my german medium and heavy line stats. Why shouldn`t you?


This is exactly the same response my fellow comrades gave me when i tried to keep them away from newbies...

"We were bullied by veterans, why would we not doing the same?"

This isn't an argument at all for me.



BrinklyWollox #72 Posted 30 August 2020 - 01:28 PM

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View PostPitulusu, on 30 August 2020 - 12:03 PM, said:

I didn't read any comment about single player... the game will me more attractive for new players playing against new players than it is right now when a new player meets after few battles players with tenth of thousands battles... 

 

That's not SBMM, that's using experience to determine MM. If I'd only faced other new players when I started playing, I still wouldn't have any idea about armour angling or effective positioning or reading the map because I'd have had no one to learn from.

 

View PostPitulusu, on 30 August 2020 - 12:21 PM, said:

This is exactly the same response my fellow comrades gave me when i tried to keep them away from newbies...

"We were bullied by veterans, why would we not doing the same?"

This isn't an argument at all for me.

 

That's not an argument, it's barely a coherent thought. You're thrown into a random battle with random players of varying skill levels and you have to destroy all the enemy or take their base without them stopping you within the time limit in order to win. How can you not end up "bullying" newer or weaker players? Do you propose that once two thirds of an enemy team is destroyed, we sue for peace and call in a UN negotiator to determine the result?

 

I've seen a number of comments in this thread claiming experienced players are afraid to face players of their own skill level. That begs the question of why those players are so afraid of learning from experience - unwilling to make the effort or incapable of understanding the lesson? 



Kurat666 #73 Posted 30 August 2020 - 01:29 PM

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View PostPitulusu, on 30 August 2020 - 02:21 PM, said:


This is exactly the same response my fellow comrades gave me when i tried to keep them away from newbies...

"We were bullied by veterans, why would we not doing the same?"

This isn't an argument at all for me.

Where did i say i was sealclubbing? Newbies should stay away from high tiers until they the understand the game. Sealclubbing seems to be more of a case in high tiers now - and its the seals that accumulate there, not the clubbers(that is their normal habitat) . So maybe the seals are to be blamed for the topic here, not the clubbers?



Vaunont #74 Posted 30 August 2020 - 01:29 PM

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View PostKurat666, on 30 August 2020 - 01:12 PM, said:

I was a beginner once too. I had to play years before I could consider myself even remotely capable of playing well. Traces of that are still seen on my german medium and heavy line stats. Why shouldn`t you?

 

You created your account in 2011. If this is not a re-roll account then that means the players that you where facing where maximum 1,5 years ahead of you. Compared to the 10 years gap new players are facing now.

 

Tiers 1-4 are brutal towards new players. No life seal clubbers with 7+ crew skills, knowing every detail of the maps and tanks, playing against new players that are trying out the game for the first time. Very demotivating and this most likely makes a lot of new players quit before they played even 20 battles. This is like a top premier league teams playing against little league teams and then telling them they had to learn once as well.



Pitulusu #75 Posted 30 August 2020 - 01:38 PM

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it's more like competing In F1 with F3 or Karts and telling them, LTP... This game it's about equipment and tank. i bought that T4 polish tank, i played one battle without any eq because i can't afford it and it was like... now it's rusting in garage because they took me the ability to mount free equipment on it. and this happen to me, what about a new player who has less money than i have and don't know almost anything about the game?

Kurat666 #76 Posted 30 August 2020 - 01:39 PM

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View PostVaunont, on 30 August 2020 - 02:29 PM, said:

 

You created your account in 2011. If this is not a re-roll account then that means the players that you where facing where maximum 1,5 years ahead of you. Compared to the 10 years gap new players are facing now.

 

Tiers 1-4 are brutal towards new players. No life seal clubbers with 7+ crew skills, knowing every detail of the maps and tanks, playing against new players that are trying out the game for the first time. Very demotivating and this most likely makes a lot of new players quit before they played even 20 battles. This is like a top premier league teams playing against little league teams and then telling them they had to learn once as well.

WG titles like WoT and WoWs are one of the few that are not " jump in and win" multyplayer games out there. If you are not up to the task, maybe its not a game for you? 

For as much as I care, they can limit tier V and below to beginners. But how? Some 25k game player is just as bad as 500 game player. 



trispect #77 Posted 30 August 2020 - 01:43 PM

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View PostKurat666, on 30 August 2020 - 02:39 PM, said:

WG titles like WoT and WoWs are one of the few that are not " jump in and win" multyplayer games out there. If you are not up to the task, maybe its not a game for you? 

For as much as I care, they can limit tier V and below to beginners. But how? Some 25k game player is just as bad as 500 game player. 

Well it would level the playing field immensely if at tier V and below you couldn't use game breaking equipment and über crews. That would also most likely drive away some of the sealclubbers.



Pitulusu #78 Posted 30 August 2020 - 01:46 PM

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That's why they should make it based on WTR ratting or something, no one likes to be punished because is new... In AW it's single player, they can play there and make money as in random, also they can learn the game, wot has nothing. wot just throw new players against old ones making them to leave. and even if they don't leave, they will ruin the battles of old players because they will die in like 2 minutes or less. the problem is that they are almost every time more in one team or in the other.



jabster #79 Posted 30 August 2020 - 01:53 PM

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Did anyone mention that newbie protection up to battle tier III is a thing, unless it’s been removed, and levelling out the advantage that experienced players have from equipment, consumables and crew is rather different from a SBMM?

BrinklyWollox #80 Posted 30 August 2020 - 01:56 PM

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View PostVaunont, on 30 August 2020 - 12:29 PM, said:

This is like a top premier league teams playing against little league teams and then telling them they had to learn once as well.

 

I'm guessing you've never heard of cup competitions outside of domestic league championships, right? You know, like the FA Cup in the UK or the DFB-Pokal in Germany or the Europa Cup or even the European Champions League, where small teams regularly qualify. Strangely enough, the Sunday league team made up of regulars at the Dog & Duck with whoever's fattest playing in goal won't get a balanced game against Barcelona.

 

View PostPitulusu, on 30 August 2020 - 12:38 PM, said:

it's more like competing In F1 with F3 or Karts and telling them, LTP... This game it's about equipment and tank. i bought that T4 polish tank, i played one battle without any eq because i can't afford it and it was like... now it's rusting in garage because they took me the ability to mount free equipment on it. and this happen to me, what about a new player who has less money than i have and don't know almost anything about the game?

 

What does any of that have to do with skill? Your complaint that having an untrained crew with zero equipment facing multi-skilled crews in fully upgraded tanks with all the equipment slots used is valid but it's unrelated to the skill of each player.

 

View PostPitulusu, on 30 August 2020 - 12:46 PM, said:

That's why they should make it based on WTR ratting or something, no one likes to be punished because is new... In AW it's single player, they can play there and make money as in random, also they can learn the game, wot has nothing. wot just throw new players against old ones making them to leave. and even if they don't leave, they will ruin the battles of old players because they will die in like 2 minutes or less. the problem is that they are almost every time more in one team or in the other.

 

Nothing you state here will change with skill-based match-making. I agree that WoT could use a co-op mode to allow players to earn some credits and gain experience (which will be limited because real players don't play like bots, evidenced by what I've seen in Warships repeatedly). They trialled such a mode with Homefront last year but that appears to have been dropped for reasons only known to WG. 







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