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WG doesnt do anything on cheaters!


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Stig_Stigma #141 Posted 13 October 2021 - 01:13 PM

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View Postnarad, on 09 September 2020 - 05:40 PM, said:

The ingame report system is crapin wot. If you look at all other big online games today when you report a suspected cheater you get feedback if the player is under investigation or got ban, but wg cant do this bc it cost them money to implement such a system, now you file a report ingame and no one really do anything about it, and their anticheat software is a piece of cheap crapthat even a tomatoe can go around. The game is full of ppl using aim cheats and other software advatage programs as well as ppl sharing accounts to get reward tanks. 

 

I dont think currently there is widespread cheating, like rigging or cheating with forbidden mods. But it was fairly common. And I have seen people rig Steel Hunter single player battles and I have reported them to player support with replays attached and I'm pretty sure they got at least 3 days ban.

The same for people who push (physics abuse). The last 2 months I have been extremely happy with Wg player support in that regard. I check the last time the player played after I send the ticket and they never start playing before the 3 day supposed ban period ends. 

 

So You need to save the replay, watch it to annotate the precise timestamp according to the in battle timer and send the replay to player support under the correct category. 



HeatResistantBFG #142 Posted 13 October 2021 - 01:25 PM

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View Postjabster, on 13 October 2021 - 12:13 PM, said:


What would you justify your position on?

 

Data I'm not allowed to share, information I know and am not allowed to share and a good healthy dollop of circumstantial evidence from my own and others playing experience.

 

It helps that any "evidence" shown to state otherwise has been very poor at showing anything too. So in the absence of anything to show otherwise and reasonable amounts saying it's true, I'm happy to stand by there are very few "cheats" in use and not many people who use them (although I do use a % scale compared to total players in my thinking of the term many, so this, of course, could be subjectively right or wrong depending on how you define it, aka 1,000 out of 1,000,000 = very few as an example of what I mean. And obviously, that isn't an actual number/data on the issue :)).



jabster #143 Posted 13 October 2021 - 01:33 PM

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View PostHeatResistantBFG, on 13 October 2021 - 12:25 PM, said:

 

Data I'm not allowed to share, information I know and am not allowed to share and a good healthy dollop of circumstantial evidence from my own and others playing experience.

 

It helps that any "evidence" shown to state otherwise has been very poor at showing anything too. So in the absence of anything to show otherwise and reasonable amounts saying it's true, I'm happy to stand by there are very few "cheats" in use and not many people who use them (although I do use a % scale compared to total players in my thinking of the term many, so this, of course, could be subjectively right or wrong depending on how you define it, aka 1,000 out of 1,000,000 = very few as an example of what I mean. And obviously, that isn't an actual number/data on the issue :)).


The evidence to show that there aren’t very few cheaters can be horribly poor, that doesn’t mean you can take the opposite position.


 



Dramya #144 Posted 13 October 2021 - 04:29 PM

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So if I’m reading this topic correctly the assumption that cheaters run rampant does not have to be proven, but the assumption that there are not a lot of cheaters (or that cheats/mods do not have a big impact) needs to be proven?

Both are assumptions, or theories as you will, and both need proof in order to be credible. Until proven they both are just theories or beliefs, and everyone can believe what he or she wants. However, since the “cheaters are running rampant” variant is being used to actually accuse others they do need to provide proof before they can use it as an argument, as in “innocent until proven guilty”.

So, unless someone is actually able to provide some proof I will regard any statement as what they are: just a lot of feels.

spidre #145 Posted Yesterday, 08:18 PM

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View Postspidre, on 13 October 2021 - 06:47 AM, said:

Check out a suspect player on wotlabs. Scroll down to the performance graphs and if the xp and dpg show large stepped increases, very likely using an illegal mod. The steps coincide with wot updates where the mod is lost until the developer uodates it.

this is the sort of thing I mean. This player aroused my suspicions and sure enough, there is the weird graph lines. I see these many times over and it annoys me a lot.

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Dramya #146 Posted Yesterday, 08:38 PM

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View Postspidre, on 14 October 2021 - 09:18 PM, said:

this is the sort of thing I mean. This player aroused my suspicions and sure enough, there is the weird graph lines. I see these many times over and it annoys me a lot.


Did you also check the values on the y-axis? The difference is negligible, the lines only “jump” because the y-axis don’t start at 0



NUKLEAR_SLUG #147 Posted Yesterday, 08:59 PM

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View Postspidre, on 14 October 2021 - 08:18 PM, said:

this is the sort of thing I mean. This player aroused my suspicions and sure enough, there is the weird graph lines. I see these many times over and it annoys me a lot.

 

What's weird about them and how are you matching up what you consider to be 'suspicious' with patches since nothing on those graphs you linked includes dates?



Gixxer66 #148 Posted Yesterday, 09:22 PM

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View Postspidre, on 14 October 2021 - 07:18 PM, said:

this is the sort of thing I mean. This player aroused my suspicions and sure enough, there is the weird graph lines. I see these many times over and it annoys me a lot.

 

I guess you have also looked at the tiers and the tanks he was playing, and if the tanks were stock or not ?

 

looking at anything in isolation is meaningless. You can read into it what ever you like. In the most recent snapshot on Wotlabs his most played tank is the LT100 and his WN8 in that is less than his average and his resent.

 

btw you have left the players name in the screenshot you might want to remove that - it could be seen as naming and shaming



barison1 #149 Posted Yesterday, 09:32 PM

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View Postspidre, on 14 October 2021 - 08:18 PM, said:

this is the sort of thing I mean. This player aroused my suspicions and sure enough, there is the weird graph lines. I see these many times over and it annoys me a lot.


maybe check the x axis

now remove all the doubles

start wondering if a large battle jump might be the reason and should be spread out

suddently it doesnt look as bumpy

 

like if i go to wot-life that doesnt create a wn8 curve by adding the same battle data over and over and then suddently take a 600-700 battle jump between 2 data points but takes day per day played data you get this instead, which unsurprisingly enough isnt as bumpy at all


Edited by barison1, Yesterday, 09:37 PM.


Downie #150 Posted Today, 01:38 AM

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All these wheres the evidence people are the fan boys of WG the ones who like to believe the world is fair and server side cant be messed with.  Its really easy search World of Tanks Aimbots/Hack/Cheats and it will take you to many sites offering their services with AI assisted Aim Mods.  The reason Wargaming can do nothing about them allot of the time is they dont show up on normal detection software.  The Fan boys will still try to defend the game but the amount of players banned sits around 3000-5000 everytime they do a check.  Asia actually showed there cheaters and shamed them which wont happen on EU because most of the players using the hacks are Unicoms this would discredit their attempts to get this game as an esport and also bring into question reward tanks achievements clan war results and many other thing so its easier to allow the cheaters to hide than admit your game is seriously flawed.  But its already well know to be populated by cheaters.  Its actually boring how many people think 36000 people on the RU server and 5000 on EU is all the cheaters lol.

unhappy__bunny #151 Posted Today, 04:52 AM

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View PostDownie, on 15 October 2021 - 12:38 AM, said:

All these wheres the evidence people are the fan boys of WG the ones who like to believe the world is fair and server side cant be messed with.  Its really easy search World of Tanks Aimbots/Hack/Cheats and it will take you to many sites offering their services with AI assisted Aim Mods.  The reason Wargaming can do nothing about them allot of the time is they dont show up on normal detection software.  The Fan boys will still try to defend the game but the amount of players banned sits around 3000-5000 everytime they do a check.  Asia actually showed there cheaters and shamed them which wont happen on EU because most of the players using the hacks are Unicoms this would discredit their attempts to get this game as an esport and also bring into question reward tanks achievements clan war results and many other thing so its easier to allow the cheaters to hide than admit your game is seriously flawed.  But its already well know to be populated by cheaters.  Its actually boring how many people think 36000 people on the RU server and 5000 on EU is all the cheaters lol.


Reading and understanding is not your strong point is it?

Us "fan boys" know there are sites that sell "cheats", we don't deny they exist. 

What we ask is that a player who comes to the forum saying they say another player cheating, offers evidence that cheating took place, not just make an accusation based upon a feeling, or because they were beaten in a battle.

You also have no clue to how servers work or how security works if you think these "cheats" can hack into the servers to alter the data. If that was as easy as you think, do you seriously think the makers of the "cheats" would waste time and effort in selling their work to a few sad individuals that want to be "better" at a video game, when they could be hacking servers for huge financial rewards?

Asia is a completely different company to WG, it is run by a Chinese company under liscense and has its own set of rules.

And there is another unsubstanciated claim, that most cheaters are Unicums. Have you evidence to back that claim or are just jealous that some players are better at this game than you are? Do you ever read the result announcements concerning events such as Clan Wars or Ranked Battles? You know, those events where reward vehicles are won? Try reading and understanding them, you will see that quite a number of players get caught using cheats and removed from the ranks. 

 



RANDOM_PLAYER123 #152 Posted Today, 08:33 AM

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The console version has no mods  ---> so no cheats

Downside is a ps6 is 600 notes atm

apparently WoT have just turned the game interface into a disaster zone, so they have their own issues lol



Dramya #153 Posted Today, 10:28 AM

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View PostRANDOM_PLAYER123, on 15 October 2021 - 09:33 AM, said:

The console version has no mods  ---> so no cheats

Downside is a ps6 is 600 notes atm

apparently WoT have just turned the game interface into a disaster zone, so they have their own issues lol


Do you really think the ability to run mods has any effect on the ability to run cheats? The modding system is only to make life of modders easier, not impossible. If there were no mods, there would still be cheats, just in a different way.

 

And in respect to console having no mods/cheats, it is the platform that makes the difference, which either makes creating mods/cheats more difficult or is less interesting because of lower popularity.



NUKLEAR_SLUG #154 Posted Today, 10:45 AM

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View PostDownie, on 15 October 2021 - 01:38 AM, said:

All these wheres the evidence people are the fan boys of WG the ones who like to believe the world is fair and server side cant be messed with.  

 

Congrats, one sentence in and you've demonstrated you have zero understanding of how server side games operate and what is and isn't possible.

 

I appreciate the brevity, I can safely ignore the rest of the inevitable drivel you posted.

 

 

View PostRANDOM_PLAYER123, on 15 October 2021 - 08:33 AM, said:

The console version has no mods  ---> so no cheats

 

So what will you blame when you don't do as well as you feel you should? 



Only_Slightly_Bent #155 Posted Today, 11:53 AM

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View PostNUKLEAR_SLUG, on 15 October 2021 - 09:45 AM, said:

 

So what will you blame when you don't do as well as you feel you should? 

The Algorithm ™, obviously...



DreadPirateRobert #156 Posted Today, 11:57 AM

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View PostNUKLEAR_SLUG, on 15 October 2021 - 10:45 AM, said:

 

Congrats, one sentence in and you've demonstrated you have zero understanding of how server side games operate and what is and isn't possible.

 

 

There was once a Youtube video which showed a mod that was able to mark all enemy positions on the mini map if one of the enemy players also had that mod installed.

It was possible because the mods communicated with each other outside of the game. Now imagine that mod would secretly be included in a very popular mod pack.

So yes, it's technically possible to have cheats like a wallhack in a server side operated game.

 

 

Noone (WG included) knows how many players are cheating.

But you can simply apply logics to get a glimpse of the current situation.

Shooter games generally have massive amounts of cheaters (you can view banlists for many games online that probably only show the tip of the iceberg).

So it would be very naive to believe that World of Tanks would be any different. In fact Wargaming even "encourages" cheating by their anti cheat policy.

If you get a "second chance" after you've been caught, how is that supposed to scare cheaters away? The worst that can happen to a cheater, that gets caught for the first time in WoT, is that he gets a 14 days ban. That's laughable and I've never seen something like that in any other online game.

That's the reason why I believe that there are probably even more cheaters in World of Tanks than in most other shooter games.

And if someone tells me that there is almost no cheating in World of Tanks and that the cheats are bad and irrelevant and don't give you a big advantage, I usually think that person is either new to online games, very naive or is a cheater himself.

 

I remember many years ago when a guy here on the forums was accused of cheating. You could clearly see in the replay that he was using an aimbot because the gun did not follow the mouse cursor and was autonomously aiming for weakspots. It was really obvious but there were many players on the forums (mostly unicum players) that defended said person. They said that it's normal and that their replays sometimes also look like that. ;)  And even if it really was an aimbot it would not give a big advantage.

After the guy was banned he admitted that he was cheating on his Twitch channel and said that an aimbot gives a very big advantage even to super-unicum players like him because he can spend much more time to look at the minimap.

 

When I see threads about cheats here on the forums I often have the feeling that people underestimate how powerful cheating in WoT can be.

I've seen Youtube videos of cheaters that had a very sophisticated aimbot, a mod that removes foliage, laserpointers at the tip of all guns, reload timers on top of enemy tanks, ghost tanks where enemy tanks were last seen, markers where to shoot for tanks that are out of render range, markers for destroyed buildings/trees and lots of other stuff.

Even a single one of those cheats gives you a big advantage but if you add them all together the advantage is huge. And the better the player is the more he can utilize them.

Don't let others fool you by telling you that cheats in World of Tanks are harmless.


Edited by DreadPirateRobert, Today, 01:07 PM.


Homer_J #157 Posted Today, 12:06 PM

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View Postspidre, on 14 October 2021 - 08:18 PM, said:

this is the sort of thing I mean. This player aroused my suspicions and sure enough, there is the weird graph lines. I see these many times over and it annoys me a lot.

Their average exp and damage go up a couple of times, never down.  So you are saying when patches are released and they can't use their mods they play better and somehow stay at that level until the next patch is released when they improve again?

 



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View PostDreadPirateRobert, on 15 October 2021 - 11:57 AM, said:

 

There was once a Youtube video which showed a mod that was able to mark all enemy positions on the mini map if one of the enemy players also had that mod installed.

It was possible because the mods communicated with each other outside of the game. Now imagine that mod would secretly be included in a very popular mod pack.

So yes, it's technically possible to have cheats like a wallhack in a server side operated game.

 

Yes, this was a proof of concept mod that required the prescence of a third party server to relay information between two known nodes. The information it was relaying was only publically available information for that client. At no point would it be able to manipulate or alter the information relayed to the client directly by the server. So while it would be able to show the minimap position of an enemy tank if that tank was currently unspotted then the client would not be able to render it since the server did not provide that information.

 

However this isn't anything unique to WoT. In any system, if I'm relaying the contents of my screen to a third party via a secondary route then that third party will be privy to whatever I can see, irrespective of whatever security might otherwise be in place.

 

Also setting up a connection between two consenting parties is vastly different to setting up a connection unknowingly between multi-hundred random parties. So, whilst not arguing the technically possibility of doing so, the practical application isn't realistically feasible.

 

 

View PostDreadPirateRobert, on 15 October 2021 - 11:57 AM, said:

Noone (WG included) knows how many players are cheating.

But you can simply apply logics to get a glimpse of the current situation.

Shooter games generally have massive amounts of cheaters (you can view banlists for many games online that probably only show the tip of the iceberg).

So it would be very naive to believe that World of Tanks would be any different. In fact Wargaming even "encourages" cheating by their anti cheat policy.

If you get a "second chance" after you've been caught, how is that supposed to scare cheaters away? The worst that can happen to a cheater, that gets caught for the first time in WoT, is that he gets a 14 days ban. That's laughable and I've never seen something like that in any other online game.

That's the reason why I believe that there are probably even more cheaters in World of Tanks than in most other shooter games.

And if someone tells me that there is almost no cheating in World of Tanks and that the cheats are bad and irrelevant and don't give you a big advantage, I usually think that person is either new to online games, very naive or is a cheater himself.

 

No you can't, you're comparing entirely different scenarios. FPS shooters do not function the same way as WoT. They are primarily client side and as such are susceptible to the input being manipulated before output to the server.

 

In a game with hitscan weapons being able to accurately pinpoint someones head at range is obviously going to be beneficial. In WoT you can run an aimbot that grants you pixel perfect shooting all you like, it isn't going to help you a jot when the server then takes that shot, applies an RNG dispersion value against it to decide where it lands, applies an RNG penetration value to decide if the shot can penetrate (assuming you even hit anything), then applies an RNG damage value to the hit to decide whether the target dies or not.

 

 

View PostDreadPirateRobert, on 15 October 2021 - 11:57 AM, said:

I remember many years ago when a guy here on the forums was accused of cheating. You could clearly see in the replay that he was using an aimbot because the gun did not follow the mouse cursor and was autonomously aiming for weakspots. It was really obvious but there were many players on the forums (mostly unicum players) that defended said person. They said that it's normal and that their replays sometimes also look like that. ;)  And even if it really was an aimbot it would not give a big advantage.

After the guy was banned he admitted that he was cheating on his Twitch channel and said that an aimbot gives a very big advantage even to super-unicum players like him because he can spend much more time to look at the minimap.

 

When I see threads about cheats here on the forums I often have the feeling that people underestimate how powerful cheating in WoT can be.

I've seen Youtube videos of cheaters that had a very sophisticated aimbot, a mod that removes foliage, laserpointers at the tip of all guns, reload timers on top of enemy tanks, ghost tanks where enemy tanks were last seen, markers where to shoot for tanks that are out of render range, markers for destroyed buildings/trees and lots of other stuff.

Even a single one of those cheats gives you a big advantage but if you add them all together the advantage is huge. And the better the player is the more he can utilize them.

Don't let others fool you by telling you that cheats in World of Tanks are harmless.

 

Nobody has said there aren't cheats, just that in a server side game they aren't the major deal that people like to make out. If you went by those forum threads you mentioned then you should expect to be falling over cheats since the OPs usually seem firmly convinced 2/3 of the players in their games are cheating. 

 

You might think if the problem is that endemic they would be able to show a replay or two of these cheat filled games but we never seem to see any. Plenty of accusations of course, but no actual proof. Why is that?

 

Why do we only ever see some Youtube video from months ago of somebody showing themselves with a bunch of dodgy mods running, but everyone seems completely incapable of posting up a single replay where we can say 'Yeah, that guy is clearly cheating'.



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View Postnarad, on 09 September 2020 - 05:40 PM, said:

The ingame report system is crapin wot. If you look at all other big online games today when you report a suspected cheater you get feedback if the player is under investigation or got ban, but wg cant do this bc it cost them money to implement such a system, now you file a report ingame and no one really do anything about it, and their anticheat software is a piece of cheap crapthat even a tomatoe can go around. The game is full of ppl using aim cheats and other software advatage programs as well as ppl sharing accounts to get reward tanks. 

no my friend, this is happening, because the others* as you say, pay more than you, is simple.



DreadPirateRobert #160 Posted Today, 04:51 PM

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View PostNUKLEAR_SLUG, on 15 October 2021 - 03:43 PM, said:

 

No you can't, you're comparing entirely different scenarios. FPS shooters do not function the same way as WoT. They are primarily client side and as such are susceptible to the input being manipulated before output to the server.

 

In a game with hitscan weapons being able to accurately pinpoint someones head at range is obviously going to be beneficial. In WoT you can run an aimbot that grants you pixel perfect shooting all you like, it isn't going to help you a jot when the server then takes that shot, applies an RNG dispersion value against it to decide where it lands, applies an RNG penetration value to decide if the shot can penetrate (assuming you even hit anything), then applies an RNG damage value to the hit to decide whether the target dies or not.

 

 

Where did I say that cheats in WoT manipulate data before output to the server? Nowhere did I say that.

Of course an aimbot doesn't affect RNG but it still gives an unfair advantage because you don't have to waste your attention on aiming.

And for a bad player that doesn't have the motoric skills to lead shots or doesn't know weakspots it is a very big advantage.

 

View PostNUKLEAR_SLUG, on 15 October 2021 - 03:43 PM, said:

 

Nobody has said there aren't cheats, just that in a server side game they aren't the major deal that people like to make out. If you went by those forum threads you mentioned then you should expect to be falling over cheats since the OPs usually seem firmly convinced 2/3 of the players in their games are cheating. 

 

You might think if the problem is that endemic they would be able to show a replay or two of these cheat filled games but we never seem to see any. Plenty of accusations of course, but no actual proof. Why is that?

 

 

If you want to see proof you need the replay from the person that used the cheats and the aimbot is the only cheat that you will be able to see in the replay. Of course most cheaters are not dumb enough to upload replays where they're obviously cheating but a few do exist.

For example from the person that I mention earlier (many here probably know him) but I won't post the name or the Youtube video because of naming/shaming.

Another guy that obviously used an aimbot was shown by a community contributor 2 months ago but I won't post that as well because of naming/shaming.

 

You are the typical guy that tries to downplay the impact of cheats in WoT. You say that cheats in a server side game are not the major deal which is complete nonsense. I mentioned a few examples of cheats in my earlier post which especially for a good player are a huge advantage. The aimbot replays/videos alone show how powerful an aimbot is if it's used by a good player. Just do some search on Youtube and you will probably find the videos that I'm talking about.

16:00 Added after 8 minute

View PostNUKLEAR_SLUG, on 15 October 2021 - 03:43 PM, said:

 

Yes, this was a proof of concept mod that required the prescence of a third party server to relay information between two known nodes. The information it was relaying was only publically available information for that client. At no point would it be able to manipulate or alter the information relayed to the client directly by the server. So while it would be able to show the minimap position of an enemy tank if that tank was currently unspotted then the client would not be able to render it since the server did not provide that information.

 

I've seen cheats on youtube that were able to render a "ghost tank" at the position where an enemy was last seen or a 3d object as a aim marker for tanks that are out of render range so I don't accept your argument that the server has to provide the information to render a tank and therefore I still think that a wallhack is still technically possible. All you need are the coordinates of the enemy tanks that the client in the enemy team sends to you. No server manipulation needed.


Edited by DreadPirateRobert, Today, 05:08 PM.





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