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4th slot for equipment - discussion and poll

equipment slot gameplay patch new

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Poll: Make equipment 2.0 more juicy (63 members have cast votes)

You have to complete 250 battle in order to participate this poll.

Would you like to have the specialised EQ slot as a 4h slot?

  1. Yes (19 votes [30.16%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 30.16%

  2. No (44 votes [69.84%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 69.84%

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Private_Miros #21 Posted 14 September 2020 - 01:26 PM

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View PostFantacuzino, on 14 September 2020 - 12:14 PM, said:

 

Minimal?

Food gives 10% crew skill being better than any Vents equipment, even the Bounty one with 8.5%

 

Anyways let's talk new equipment.

I think the Lights and TDs are okay, they can benefit from new equipment.

 

But what about Heavies and Meds that can mount a rammer?

Rammer, VStab, Optics and Vents are still the best option here.

 

The specialized slot for Heavies is only usefull with Vents, because why would you give up Rammer or Vstab or Optics?

Same for Meds ( autoloaders might benefit from IRM instead of Vents)

 

The 4th slot would make builds more interesting and more diverse. :)

 

I don't think you understand well. Food vs food is minimal difference. Not food vs not food.

Good tank + food is not much better compared bad tank + food in comparison to good tank without food to bad tank without food.

Good tank with one bad trait + 4 equipment is much better compared to bad tank with multiple bad traits + 4 equipment, in comparison to the same two tanks with 3 equipment slot, further powercreeping the bad tank.

 

I don't find the dedicated slot system optimal either, but you contradict yourself.

4 slots would make the builds more straight forward and less diverse and you just explained why. Rammer, VStab, Optics and Vents are still the best option here for 90% of the tank. So if you can install all 4...

 



Fantacuzino #22 Posted 14 September 2020 - 02:00 PM

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View PostPrivate_Miros, on 14 September 2020 - 01:26 PM, said:

4 slots would make the builds more straight forward and less diverse and you just explained why. Rammer, VStab, Optics and Vents are still the best option here for 90% of the tank. So if you can install all 4...

 

No, I said that those 4 are the best option for 3 slots.

 

Let's take Maus for example.

Specialised equipment is:

  • Spall Liner - better HE and crew protection
  • Improved Hardening - more HP and stronger suspension
  • Modified Configuration - more repair speed and more module HP

 

But why would anyone install any of those instead of Vstab, Rammer and Vents ( or Optics) ?

 

With a 4th dedicated slot you don't have to give up reload speed, gun handling nor view range.

My suggestion for the 4th specialised slot would make the new equipment have a point.



Private_Miros #23 Posted 14 September 2020 - 02:10 PM

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View PostFantacuzino, on 14 September 2020 - 01:00 PM, said:

 

No, I said that those 4 are the best option for 3 slots.

 

And which are the best 4 for 4 slots, generally?

 

View PostFantacuzino, on 14 September 2020 - 01:00 PM, said:

Let's take Maus for example.

Specialised equipment is:

  • Spall Liner - better HE and crew protection
  • Improved Hardening - more HP and stronger suspension
  • Modified Configuration - more repair speed and more module HP

 

But why would anyone install any of those instead of Vstab, Rammer and Vents ( or Optics) ?

 

With a 4th dedicated slot you don't have to give up reload speed, gun handling nor view range.

My suggestion for the 4th specialised slot would make the new equipment have a point.

 

Maus is not a good example for the powercreep consequences, it's a gimmicky tank that focusses on only two things (armor and HP). It fits in those 10 or less percent that actually use the new equipment well.

With 3 places, you will always go for hardening at the least, the rest of the choices allow for variation: go full repair speed/arty protection, or get some DPM or gun handling next to it.

 

A better example would be Obj 430B vs Centurion AX. Would the 4th equipment slot decrease the distance between those two tanks, keep it the same, or further increase the power difference between the two in comparison to three slots.

 

My point is that it would serve to further increase the difference in favour of the strongest tank, since a 4th slot means further accentuation of its good points or mitigation of its bad points (such as gun handling on the Obj 430), while the Cent AX gains little from a fourth slot in comparison.


Edited by Private_Miros, 14 September 2020 - 02:13 PM.


saxsan4 #24 Posted 14 September 2020 - 02:15 PM

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View PostFantacuzino, on 14 September 2020 - 01:00 PM, said:

 

No, I said that those 4 are the best option for 3 slots.

 

Let's take Maus for example.

Specialised equipment is:

  • Spall Liner - better HE and crew protection
  • Improved Hardening - more HP and stronger suspension
  • Modified Configuration - more repair speed and more module HP

 

But why would anyone install any of those instead of Vstab, Rammer and Vents ( or Optics) ?

 

With a 4th dedicated slot you don't have to give up reload speed, gun handling nor view range.

My suggestion for the 4th specialised slot would make the new equipment have a point.


why would anyone put vents or optics on maus when you have imrpoved hardning? 



Private_Miros #25 Posted 14 September 2020 - 02:33 PM

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View Postsaxsan4, on 14 September 2020 - 01:15 PM, said:


why would anyone put vents or optics on maus when you have imrpoved hardning? 

 

Hardening, Spall liner or Mod Conf, and Optics could work as a meme yolo scout option, I guess.



Robbie_T #26 Posted 15 September 2020 - 02:32 AM

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NO

Fantacuzino #27 Posted 15 September 2020 - 06:41 AM

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View PostPrivate_Miros, on 14 September 2020 - 02:10 PM, said:

And which are the best 4 for 4 slots, generally?

 

It depends on player prefference.

Me, for example, since I suck with slow tanks... I would run the Maus with Vstab, Rammer, Turbo and Vents in the specialised slot.

 

View Postsaxsan4, on 14 September 2020 - 02:15 PM, said:

why would anyone put vents or optics on maus when you have imrpoved hardning? 

 

To have 445+ view range without food.

 

View PostPrivate_Miros, on 14 September 2020 - 02:10 PM, said:

A better example would be Obj 430U vs Centurion AX. Would the 4th equipment slot decrease the distance between those two tanks, keep it the same, or further increase the power difference between the two in comparison to three slots.

 

My point is that it would serve to further increase the difference in favour of the strongest tank, since a 4th slot means further accentuation of its good points or mitigation of its bad points (such as gun handling on the Obj 430), while the Cent AX gains little from a fourth slot in comparison.

 

Cent AX has the same dispersion when traversing the turret as Obj 430U.

And it would greater benefit from IRM to improve dispersion since it has a weak cupola and is also more vulnerable to HEAT spam.

Thus being more important to peak fast and shoot accurately.

 

Obj 430U on the other hand, I'd personally run Turbo on it to make it faster.

 

Other example would be to run the Modified Configuration on some meds like Obj 140 and Leopard 1.

Those 2 tanks get ammo racked or damaged fuel tank with almost every hit they take.

+150% HP to those modules would make the tanks more comfortable to play.

 



_Old_Spice_ #28 Posted 15 September 2020 - 06:48 AM

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No, no way .We just received some variety to make with equipment layout and 4-th slot will kill it.
Also it’s a huge disadvantage for new players... when they grind their first tiers8-10 and play with old players with 5-skilled crew and 4- bond equipment...:facepalm:
P.S. lights will become even more OP - “invisible-turbo-spotting-damagers” :trollface:
For separate player - it’s OK, for the game environment - disaster:honoring:

Bordhaw #29 Posted 15 September 2020 - 08:23 AM

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View Postsaxsan4, on 14 September 2020 - 01:15 PM, said:


why would anyone put vents or optics on maus when you have imrpoved hardning? 


Because WG said Equipment 2.0 was to encourage "diversity". 



Fantacuzino #30 Posted 15 September 2020 - 11:14 AM

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View Post_Old_Spice_, on 15 September 2020 - 06:48 AM, said:

1.No, no way .We just received some variety to make with equipment layout and 4-th slot will kill it.
2.Also it’s a huge disadvantage for new players... when they grind their first tiers8-10 and play with old players with 5-skilled crew and 4- bond equipment...
3.P.S. lights will become even more OP - “invisible-turbo-spotting-damagers”

 

I disagree.

 

  1. my ideea for the 4th slot came because for most tanks I don't see the use of the new equipment over the classic setup
  2. paying another 600k credits for an extra equipment is extremely minor investment compared to running food, having crew skills or bond equipment.
  3. lights are quite underpowered, expecially now since the introduction of Ebola Racers

 

If we're talking EBRs, they're already prohibited from mounting certain equipment, like Binos for example.

This could be extended for ballancing reasons to other equipment ( can EBR mount Turbo BTW? )



ArsenalTank #31 Posted 15 September 2020 - 11:37 AM

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i would also love to have 4th or 5th slots.

but is that good for the game?

the answer is: NO

to balance some tanks you might need a little differences (like - or + extra 10 meter viewrange) ( +- 0.02 accuracy)

adding 4th slot will destroy such aspects of balance.



Private_Miros #32 Posted 15 September 2020 - 12:38 PM

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View PostFantacuzino, on 15 September 2020 - 05:41 AM, said:

 

It depends on player prefference.

Me, for example, since I suck with slow tanks... I would run the Maus with Vstab, Rammer, Turbo and Vents in the specialised slot.

 

 

 

So, let me get this straight, with 3 slots, these 4 equipment pieces are the only relevant pieces in 90% of the cases: Rammer, VStab, Optics and Vents?

But you argue that when you have 4 slots, you don't use those to fit those 4 equipment pieces in 90% of the cases, because reasons. And to illustrate that, you take one of the prime 10% examples, Maus?

 

Sure, tanks would be more comfortable with 4 pieces, but as people tell you, it would just serve to make strong points stronger and weak points less weak point,s so making the difference between stronger tanks and weaker tanks even bigger, hence it would increase powercreep even more.

 

 

 

 



Fantacuzino #33 Posted 15 September 2020 - 01:59 PM

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View PostPrivate_Miros, on 15 September 2020 - 12:38 PM, said:

So, let me get this straight, with 3 slots, these 4 equipment pieces are the only relevant pieces in 90% of the cases: Rammer, VStab, Optics and Vents?

But you argue that when you have 4 slots, you don't use those to fit those 4 equipment pieces in 90% of the cases, because reasons. And to illustrate that, you take one of the prime 10% examples, Maus?

Sure, tanks would be more comfortable with 4 pieces, but as people tell you, it would just serve to make strong points stronger and weak points less weak point,s so making the difference between stronger tanks and weaker tanks even bigger, hence it would increase powercreep even more.

 

Pls don't be manipulative, I explained very clearly what I said.

 

I said that you wouldn't compromise firepower and vision on most tanks.

That means that you would equip Rammer, Vstab  and Optics ( or Vents ) on most tanks.

 

When you have the 4th slot, you can more easily consider Turbo, Modified Configuration etc.

Otherwise, on most tanks the newly introduced equipment is useless because it's very hard to chose any of those over the classic setup.

 

Clear and simple!



Ghoststalker #34 Posted 15 September 2020 - 10:19 PM

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View PostFantacuzino, on 13 September 2020 - 07:06 PM, said:

 

I disagree.

 

Example: I would love to max out the DpM on my M48 Patton and also have Turbo on it.

Patton would benefit a lot from turbo, since it's a slow to relocate tank and being faster would make it more flexible.

 

And I'm talking about game economy, you talk about personal savings.

More spendings =  4th slot better for spinning the money wheel.

Don't think WG would mind. :coin:

 

You're contradicting your own arguments. In the opening post you mention that you want "people to play more with different builds". There is diversity in builds because they offer trade offs, you choose to improve certain statistics at the cost of others a.k.a specialization. Trying to make your tank more "flexible" is the exact opposite of that. Flexibility means that it is a jack of all trades, bad at nothing, but great at nothing either.


Personal savings and the game economy as a whole are intertwined. People might not necessarily spend more, just because the game requires you to spend more to remain competitive. Especially new players may find that the bar is set too high for them. Even more experienced players will burn out faster, because the cost is cumulative depending on the amount of tanks that you own and play.



Dwigt #35 Posted 16 September 2020 - 11:13 AM

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View PostFantacuzino, on 14 September 2020 - 01:14 PM, said:

 

Minimal?

Food gives 10% crew skill being better than any Vents equipment, even the Bounty one with 8.5%

 

Anyways let's talk new equipment.

I think the Lights and TDs are okay, they can benefit from new equipment.

 

But what about Heavies and Meds that can mount a rammer?

Rammer, VStab, Optics and Vents are still the best option here.

 

The specialized slot for Heavies is only usefull with Vents, because why would you give up Rammer or Vstab or Optics?

Same for Meds ( autoloaders might benefit from IRM instead of Vents)

 

The 4th slot would make builds more interesting and more diverse. :)

There are many reasons why we wouldn't add a 4th equipment slot and most of them were brought up already.

You always need to find an optimal configuration on your tank that fits your playstyle and the raw stats. Having a 4th slot will remove this current "compromise", damaging the game balance by increasing the gaps between some tanks.

Take the CS-52 LIS for example. The spotting range isn't that good, you need an mobility boost and ofc a firepower increase. You'll have to chose between mobility or view range.  

Some of the new equipment added in Equipment 2.0 proved to be very effective and brought more diversity to the game. Some tanks will benefit from the Turbo charger, IRM, CVS and the new Improved configuration. 

 

 



Homer_J #36 Posted 16 September 2020 - 04:44 PM

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View PostFantacuzino, on 15 September 2020 - 01:59 PM, said:

 

That means that you would equip Rammer, Vstab  and Optics ( or Vents ) on most tanks.

 

And with 4 slots it would be Rammer, Vsab, optics and vents on 90% of tanks.

 

With 3 slots some people will have optics, some will have vents.  This is variety, not much but some.

 

With 4 slots everyone will have the same, this is less variety.



BR33K1_PAWAH #37 Posted 16 September 2020 - 05:19 PM

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No

 

There is like 3-5 builds for every tank. Players need to have to choose what to use and what to leave, it's diversity.

16:24 Added after 4 minute

View PostFantacuzino, on 15 September 2020 - 03:59 PM, said:

 

Pls don't be manipulative, I explained very clearly what I said.

 

I said that you wouldn't compromise firepower and vision on most tanks.

That means that you would equip Rammer, Vstab  and Optics ( or Vents ) on most tanks.

 

When you have the 4th slot, you can more easily consider Turbo, Modified Configuration etc.

Otherwise, on most tanks the newly introduced equipment is useless because it's very hard to chose any of those over the classic setup.

 

Clear and simple!

 

I see your point, but let me argue - on tanks like M48, 140 or stb you can and mb even should drop vStab for things like turbo, vents or survivability equipment. Those are more than viable choices.

What you say is more true for lower tiers.


Edited by BR33K1_PAWAH, 16 September 2020 - 05:20 PM.


Hedgehog1963 #38 Posted 16 September 2020 - 10:20 PM

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As it is you have to make decisions as to what to enhance and what you'll have to compromise in deciding on your build.  I Iike it as it is.

Inappropriate_noob #39 Posted 16 September 2020 - 11:31 PM

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View PostObsessive_Compulsive, on 13 September 2020 - 08:39 PM, said:

NO. I demand 5 slots!

Hell, lets make an even number, how about 6:D



Lanrefni #40 Posted 17 September 2020 - 12:10 AM

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No.





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