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RNG seems broken in ranked battles

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timopost #1 Posted 04 November 2020 - 12:28 AM

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tldr: I had bad rng for 2 whole ranked seasons and according to wargamings own statistics the odds of some stuff I've seen in those 4 weeks are nearly impossible.

 

So I've been playing ranked this week and man... Just like the previous season the mode is terrible for more reasons than just terrible rng, but I don't want to cover those right now. The only thing I wan't to addres in this post is the fact that I feel like rng (for me) is broken, because it can not be statistically possible to get 2 ranked seasons lasting 2 weeks each where you're skill level drops by 50% just because rng screws you over.

 

If any wargaming staff read this, they might think im crazy, but I have like 100 scenarios with which I can describe why I believe this to be the case (and about 2 to counter it), so lets start off:

 

1. Repeatedly being on the losing team. Although this event is more noticable then anything else and this is actually balanced out, its still slightly favors the enemy team it seems so it's a nice starter.

2. Getting focussed by arty most of the games. No matter what tank I pick, somehow enemy artillery choses me out of the 13 or so tanks to shoot at (not counting ally arty). This would be fine if artillery shoots something else in between being spotted, but no, they wait for me to get spotted again or just keep firing at the bush I was last spotted in. It's like I have a massive blinking sign on my tank saying: 'screw me over piggies!'

3. Artillery killing on average 1 crew member per shot. This is an easy one, because there is actually an article stating that when a crew member is hit by HE, they have a 10% chance of recieving damage. A tank has 4 crew members so that is 4*10% = 40% chance of losing at least one crew member, but that's not nearly close enough to the 100% rate I am experiencing. I do not count shots that do no damage in this.

4. Missing shots that should hit more often than not every time. This is excluding long range shots at ebr's and whatnot, but my aim for those is on point and most of the time rng still makes me miss those but whatever, I blame that on range. Now emagine driving in a 60tp and shooting heat at the lower plate of an s.conq from 10-20 meters away. Now emagine that your aim circle in such a situation on the move is 80% filled with the lower plate of that tank. Due to the fact that the game uses normal distribution 60% of the shots should land in the center half of the circle, this means there should roughly be a 90% chance of hitting that shot due to the edges having very low odds. Now emagine doing something like that in multiple battles and never hitting that shot. Yes, that's [edited].

5. Enemies seem to have no rng. This is best phrased as a question, so: Why do enemies hit weakspot of certain tanks more often then I do in the same situation? Take an stb firing at the cupowla of a 268 v4 from 50-100m, why does that stb hat that shot more often then lets say me in an s.conq at 20-30m? Its not that im that bad at aiming, cuz like I said before, can hit ebr at the most rediculous distances (in randoms). Why is an WZ-111-5A able to penetrate the frontal turret of the is-4 while the is-4 bounces on the turret ring? Why is it that whenever I crest a ridge the enemy finds the tiniest shot into my lower plate, but when I do the same it either goes into the floor or into the upper plate? Why is it that when 2 s.conqs face eachother one of them (the enemy mostly) reliably hits the lower plate or cupowla while the other with the same shots bounces or misses everything?

 

Now here comes the list of things where rng actually was good:

1. I ammorack an is-7 from full hp. Then we lost the battle cuz my entire team played like bots and the enemy had an amx 50b and a leo and some td's camping behind an open field we had to cross.

2. No thats actually it, if I counted scenario's in which I hit a shot into this list I might get a very long list (that's about the same length as the list with missed shots). And since I usually don't take chancy shots except for when there is literally nothing else possilbe, all my shots should be 60-80% guaranteed hits.

 

Thanks for listening to this rant, but I do actually hope some1 seriously looks into this because it's ruining my ranked experience while im not actually a terrible player (top 5k on some aspects of the hall of fame, 1800wn8 overall and get up to 2200 recent and sometimes even 3k wn8).

And at the very least I want some1 to clearly explain:

1. The rng mechanics for dispersion.

2. The rng mechanics for penetration.

3. The rng mechanics for damage roles.

4. The rng mechanics for module/crew damage.

5. Why wargaming isn't able to balance the team better given that they have a kinda accurate measurment of skill-level in the game, because even I can think of a system within 10 seconds.

 

Don't link me to the wiki articles please, because I've read those and are in my experience completely invalid in ranked.

 

Thank you :)



Slyspy #2 Posted 08 November 2020 - 03:02 PM

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View Posttimopost, on 04 November 2020 - 12:28 AM, said:

tldr: I had bad rng for 2 whole ranked seasons and according to wargamings own statistics the odds of some stuff I've seen in those 4 weeks are nearly impossible.

 

So I've been playing ranked this week and man... Just like the previous season the mode is terrible for more reasons than just terrible rng, but I don't want to cover those right now. The only thing I wan't to addres in this post is the fact that I feel like rng (for me) is broken, because it can not be statistically possible to get 2 ranked seasons lasting 2 weeks each where you're skill level drops by 50% just because rng screws you over.

 

If any wargaming staff read this, they might think im crazy, but I have like 100 scenarios with which I can describe why I believe this to be the case (and about 2 to counter it), so lets start off:

 

1. Repeatedly being on the losing team. Although this event is more noticable then anything else and this is actually balanced out, its still slightly favors the enemy team it seems so it's a nice starter.

2. Getting focussed by arty most of the games. No matter what tank I pick, somehow enemy artillery choses me out of the 13 or so tanks to shoot at (not counting ally arty). This would be fine if artillery shoots something else in between being spotted, but no, they wait for me to get spotted again or just keep firing at the bush I was last spotted in. It's like I have a massive blinking sign on my tank saying: 'screw me over piggies!'

3. Artillery killing on average 1 crew member per shot. This is an easy one, because there is actually an article stating that when a crew member is hit by HE, they have a 10% chance of recieving damage. A tank has 4 crew members so that is 4*10% = 40% chance of losing at least one crew member, but that's not nearly close enough to the 100% rate I am experiencing. I do not count shots that do no damage in this.

4. Missing shots that should hit more often than not every time. This is excluding long range shots at ebr's and whatnot, but my aim for those is on point and most of the time rng still makes me miss those but whatever, I blame that on range. Now emagine driving in a 60tp and shooting heat at the lower plate of an s.conq from 10-20 meters away. Now emagine that your aim circle in such a situation on the move is 80% filled with the lower plate of that tank. Due to the fact that the game uses normal distribution 60% of the shots should land in the center half of the circle, this means there should roughly be a 90% chance of hitting that shot due to the edges having very low odds. Now emagine doing something like that in multiple battles and never hitting that shot. Yes, that's [edited].

5. Enemies seem to have no rng. This is best phrased as a question, so: Why do enemies hit weakspot of certain tanks more often then I do in the same situation? Take an stb firing at the cupowla of a 268 v4 from 50-100m, why does that stb hat that shot more often then lets say me in an s.conq at 20-30m? Its not that im that bad at aiming, cuz like I said before, can hit ebr at the most rediculous distances (in randoms). Why is an WZ-111-5A able to penetrate the frontal turret of the is-4 while the is-4 bounces on the turret ring? Why is it that whenever I crest a ridge the enemy finds the tiniest shot into my lower plate, but when I do the same it either goes into the floor or into the upper plate? Why is it that when 2 s.conqs face eachother one of them (the enemy mostly) reliably hits the lower plate or cupowla while the other with the same shots bounces or misses everything?

 

Now here comes the list of things where rng actually was good:

1. I ammorack an is-7 from full hp. Then we lost the battle cuz my entire team played like bots and the enemy had an amx 50b and a leo and some td's camping behind an open field we had to cross.

2. No thats actually it, if I counted scenario's in which I hit a shot into this list I might get a very long list (that's about the same length as the list with missed shots). And since I usually don't take chancy shots except for when there is literally nothing else possilbe, all my shots should be 60-80% guaranteed hits.

 

Thanks for listening to this rant, but I do actually hope some1 seriously looks into this because it's ruining my ranked experience while im not actually a terrible player (top 5k on some aspects of the hall of fame, 1800wn8 overall and get up to 2200 recent and sometimes even 3k wn8).

And at the very least I want some1 to clearly explain:

1. The rng mechanics for dispersion.

2. The rng mechanics for penetration.

3. The rng mechanics for damage roles.

4. The rng mechanics for module/crew damage.

5. Why wargaming isn't able to balance the team better given that they have a kinda accurate measurment of skill-level in the game, because even I can think of a system within 10 seconds.

 

Don't link me to the wiki articles please, because I've read those and are in my experience completely invalid in ranked.

 

Thank you :)

 

Almost all of this is going to be a combination of bad luck and confirmation bias. Sorry, but there it is. 



Obsessive_Compulsive #3 Posted 08 November 2020 - 03:41 PM

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I am slowly going up the ranks, sometimes it's 3 steps backwards but all you can really aspire to is slow progression with the occasional setback, it is pushing through those setbacks that determines your placement.

 

You must have conviction and an iron will!

 

I know most of your post is RNG and such related but honestly on those matters I second what sly said.



aleksot #4 Posted 17 November 2020 - 09:17 PM

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Im, sory, why are you playing ranked? 

vikingmilo #5 Posted 22 December 2020 - 11:17 PM

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View Posttimopost, on 04 November 2020 - 12:28 AM, said:

tldr: I had bad rng for 2 whole ranked seasons and according to wargamings own statistics the odds of some stuff I've seen in those 4 weeks are nearly impossible.

 

So I've been playing ranked this week and man... Just like the previous season the mode is terrible for more reasons than just terrible rng, but I don't want to cover those right now. The only thing I wan't to addres in this post is the fact that I feel like rng (for me) is broken, because it can not be statistically possible to get 2 ranked seasons lasting 2 weeks each where you're skill level drops by 50% just because rng screws you over.

 

If any wargaming staff read this, they might think im crazy, but I have like 100 scenarios with which I can describe why I believe this to be the case (and about 2 to counter it), so lets start off:

 

1. Repeatedly being on the losing team. Although this event is more noticable then anything else and this is actually balanced out, its still slightly favors the enemy team it seems so it's a nice starter.

2. Getting focussed by arty most of the games. No matter what tank I pick, somehow enemy artillery choses me out of the 13 or so tanks to shoot at (not counting ally arty). This would be fine if artillery shoots something else in between being spotted, but no, they wait for me to get spotted again or just keep firing at the bush I was last spotted in. It's like I have a massive blinking sign on my tank saying: 'screw me over piggies!'

3. Artillery killing on average 1 crew member per shot. This is an easy one, because there is actually an article stating that when a crew member is hit by HE, they have a 10% chance of recieving damage. A tank has 4 crew members so that is 4*10% = 40% chance of losing at least one crew member, but that's not nearly close enough to the 100% rate I am experiencing. I do not count shots that do no damage in this.

4. Missing shots that should hit more often than not every time. This is excluding long range shots at ebr's and whatnot, but my aim for those is on point and most of the time rng still makes me miss those but whatever, I blame that on range. Now emagine driving in a 60tp and shooting heat at the lower plate of an s.conq from 10-20 meters away. Now emagine that your aim circle in such a situation on the move is 80% filled with the lower plate of that tank. Due to the fact that the game uses normal distribution 60% of the shots should land in the center half of the circle, this means there should roughly be a 90% chance of hitting that shot due to the edges having very low odds. Now emagine doing something like that in multiple battles and never hitting that shot. Yes, that's [edited].

5. Enemies seem to have no rng. This is best phrased as a question, so: Why do enemies hit weakspot of certain tanks more often then I do in the same situation? Take an stb firing at the cupowla of a 268 v4 from 50-100m, why does that stb hat that shot more often then lets say me in an s.conq at 20-30m? Its not that im that bad at aiming, cuz like I said before, can hit ebr at the most rediculous distances (in randoms). Why is an WZ-111-5A able to penetrate the frontal turret of the is-4 while the is-4 bounces on the turret ring? Why is it that whenever I crest a ridge the enemy finds the tiniest shot into my lower plate, but when I do the same it either goes into the floor or into the upper plate? Why is it that when 2 s.conqs face eachother one of them (the enemy mostly) reliably hits the lower plate or cupowla while the other with the same shots bounces or misses everything?

 

Now here comes the list of things where rng actually was good:

1. I ammorack an is-7 from full hp. Then we lost the battle cuz my entire team played like bots and the enemy had an amx 50b and a leo and some td's camping behind an open field we had to cross.

2. No thats actually it, if I counted scenario's in which I hit a shot into this list I might get a very long list (that's about the same length as the list with missed shots). And since I usually don't take chancy shots except for when there is literally nothing else possilbe, all my shots should be 60-80% guaranteed hits.

 

Thanks for listening to this rant, but I do actually hope some1 seriously looks into this because it's ruining my ranked experience while im not actually a terrible player (top 5k on some aspects of the hall of fame, 1800wn8 overall and get up to 2200 recent and sometimes even 3k wn8).

And at the very least I want some1 to clearly explain:

1. The rng mechanics for dispersion.

2. The rng mechanics for penetration.

3. The rng mechanics for damage roles.

4. The rng mechanics for module/crew damage.

5. Why wargaming isn't able to balance the team better given that they have a kinda accurate measurment of skill-level in the game, because even I can think of a system within 10 seconds.

 

Don't link me to the wiki articles please, because I've read those and are in my experience completely invalid in ranked.

 

Thank you :)

Everything you say is exactly what happens to me, all very dodgy indeed, i have made my assumptions about this game on many occasions, nice to hear someone who can see the same things happening almost every game, and just to let you know i played 33 games today and won just 8, it seems wot have no shame.



SteveO222 #6 Posted 30 December 2020 - 02:02 PM

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View Posttimopost, on 04 November 2020 - 12:28 AM, said:

tldr: I had bad rng for 2 whole ranked seasons and according to wargamings own statistics the odds of some stuff I've seen in those 4 weeks are nearly impossible.

 

So I've been playing ranked this week and man... Just like the previous season the mode is terrible for more reasons than just terrible rng, but I don't want to cover those right now. The only thing I wan't to addres in this post is the fact that I feel like rng (for me) is broken, because it can not be statistically possible to get 2 ranked seasons lasting 2 weeks each where you're skill level drops by 50% just because rng screws you over.

 

If any wargaming staff read this, they might think im crazy, but I have like 100 scenarios with which I can describe why I believe this to be the case (and about 2 to counter it), so lets start off:

 

1. Repeatedly being on the losing team. Although this event is more noticable then anything else and this is actually balanced out, its still slightly favors the enemy team it seems so it's a nice starter.

2. Getting focussed by arty most of the games. No matter what tank I pick, somehow enemy artillery choses me out of the 13 or so tanks to shoot at (not counting ally arty). This would be fine if artillery shoots something else in between being spotted, but no, they wait for me to get spotted again or just keep firing at the bush I was last spotted in. It's like I have a massive blinking sign on my tank saying: 'screw me over piggies!'

3. Artillery killing on average 1 crew member per shot. This is an easy one, because there is actually an article stating that when a crew member is hit by HE, they have a 10% chance of recieving damage. A tank has 4 crew members so that is 4*10% = 40% chance of losing at least one crew member, but that's not nearly close enough to the 100% rate I am experiencing. I do not count shots that do no damage in this.

4. Missing shots that should hit more often than not every time. This is excluding long range shots at ebr's and whatnot, but my aim for those is on point and most of the time rng still makes me miss those but whatever, I blame that on range. Now emagine driving in a 60tp and shooting heat at the lower plate of an s.conq from 10-20 meters away. Now emagine that your aim circle in such a situation on the move is 80% filled with the lower plate of that tank. Due to the fact that the game uses normal distribution 60% of the shots should land in the center half of the circle, this means there should roughly be a 90% chance of hitting that shot due to the edges having very low odds. Now emagine doing something like that in multiple battles and never hitting that shot. Yes, that's [edited].

5. Enemies seem to have no rng. This is best phrased as a question, so: Why do enemies hit weakspot of certain tanks more often then I do in the same situation? Take an stb firing at the cupowla of a 268 v4 from 50-100m, why does that stb hat that shot more often then lets say me in an s.conq at 20-30m? Its not that im that bad at aiming, cuz like I said before, can hit ebr at the most rediculous distances (in randoms). Why is an WZ-111-5A able to penetrate the frontal turret of the is-4 while the is-4 bounces on the turret ring? Why is it that whenever I crest a ridge the enemy finds the tiniest shot into my lower plate, but when I do the same it either goes into the floor or into the upper plate? Why is it that when 2 s.conqs face eachother one of them (the enemy mostly) reliably hits the lower plate or cupowla while the other with the same shots bounces or misses everything?

 

Now here comes the list of things where rng actually was good:

1. I ammorack an is-7 from full hp. Then we lost the battle cuz my entire team played like bots and the enemy had an amx 50b and a leo and some td's camping behind an open field we had to cross.

2. No thats actually it, if I counted scenario's in which I hit a shot into this list I might get a very long list (that's about the same length as the list with missed shots). And since I usually don't take chancy shots except for when there is literally nothing else possilbe, all my shots should be 60-80% guaranteed hits.

 

Thanks for listening to this rant, but I do actually hope some1 seriously looks into this because it's ruining my ranked experience while im not actually a terrible player (top 5k on some aspects of the hall of fame, 1800wn8 overall and get up to 2200 recent and sometimes even 3k wn8).

And at the very least I want some1 to clearly explain:

1. The rng mechanics for dispersion.

2. The rng mechanics for penetration.

3. The rng mechanics for damage roles.

4. The rng mechanics for module/crew damage.

5. Why wargaming isn't able to balance the team better given that they have a kinda accurate measurment of skill-level in the game, because even I can think of a system within 10 seconds.

 

Don't link me to the wiki articles please, because I've read those and are in my experience completely invalid in ranked.

 

Thank you :)

With you on EVERY thing you have said.

 

I do not buy the Random part at all, that would imply that it should even out eventually and a lot of us are simply not seeing that happen.

 

What does make me curious is whether the chat bans are increasing due to frustrated players needing to vent their frustration and choose to do it with the players who have FreeExp'd up a line with less than 150 games and are still looking at the helicopters/birds/buildings etc at Tier VIII/IX & X.

 

I play WOT to shoot things and hopefully get the odd game where I make a good decision and arrive behind something soft-skinned and completely at my mercy only to see my shots bounce off the back of a tank two tiers lower than mine, and it doesn't bounce just once, then I get three critical hits in a row NONE of which seem to have any discernible effect on that tanks performance. Afterward you check their stats to find they have played 149 games and clearly have no clue what they are doing BUT they still manage to negate EVERY advantage you had.

 

 



Slyspy #7 Posted 31 December 2020 - 08:27 PM

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View PostSteveO222, on 30 December 2020 - 02:02 PM, said:

With you on EVERY thing you have said.

 

I do not buy the Random part at all, that would imply that it should even out eventually and a lot of us are simply not seeing that happen.

 

What does make me curious is whether the chat bans are increasing due to frustrated players needing to vent their frustration and choose to do it with the players who have FreeExp'd up a line with less than 150 games and are still looking at the helicopters/birds/buildings etc at Tier VIII/IX & X.

 

I play WOT to shoot things and hopefully get the odd game where I make a good decision and arrive behind something soft-skinned and completely at my mercy only to see my shots bounce off the back of a tank two tiers lower than mine, and it doesn't bounce just once, then I get three critical hits in a row NONE of which seem to have any discernible effect on that tanks performance. Afterward you check their stats to find they have played 149 games and clearly have no clue what they are doing BUT they still manage to negate EVERY advantage you had.

 

 

 

And sometimes your pocket aces get beaten because a donkey refused to fold their 7-2 off suit. Happens. 







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