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Why don't you use the player stats to balance the teams ?


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RemzDNB #1 Posted 21 November 2020 - 01:05 PM

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So this game is all about stats, win ratio, wn8, wg rating, etc, and you don't use them for something useful ? The worst thing about this game is not arty, matchmaking or whatever, it is very, very unbalanced games most of the time (I'd say 80%).

I'm done blaming the bad players, I mean if you're under 1k5 wn8 at 20k games you're an [content removed] period and you should play the sims instead, but when you think about it, it's like IRL, most people are dumb and nobody can do anything about it.

So I understand that you can't ban the [content removed] for the sole felony of being retarded, but you could at least put the same amount of them in each team.

Every competitive online game out there use stats to balance games, for example in League of Legend, bronze players don't play against diamonds, etc...

And I'm not complaining about losing games, tbh I find it better when my team gets rekt, so I can farm more for MOE. The games when the whole enemy team is dead before I even reach a position are worse.

And a bit off topic but I'm playing online games for 15 years, and I never witnessed so many clueless people in any of them. Sometimes I wonder if 75% of players are real bots filling up the servers. I mean how can those people have fun rushing in and dying in 1 minute in each and every game ? That's beyond comprehension for me


Average level insult. 

Post edited.

~BethHarmon, Forum Moderator


Edited by BethHarmon, 21 November 2020 - 03:11 PM.


GalmTwo #2 Posted 21 November 2020 - 01:07 PM

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Ranked - SBMM with ranks.

Random battles - purely random. 

We don't need SBMM in randoms, that defeats the purpose of matches being entirely RANDOM.

Also, jeez, cool it with the ableism. 


Edited by GalmTwo, 21 November 2020 - 01:10 PM.


UrQuan #3 Posted 21 November 2020 - 01:09 PM

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So you don't like playing with bad players; hence you propose a system that punishes good play? 

 

Think about it a little deeper. The system you propose would mean bad players are playing good & would see them carried every game by the better players (like you), while good players have to fight their counterpart each time & the guy that can play best with the baddies gets to win.

 

Do understand, ranked & stuff works, as you can see in various games, but the game has to accommodate for that as well. But even such systems have their issues as well (people playing to drop ranks are not fun to have on your team or smurfs disturbing the lower ranks)

And yes, in this game, the full stupidity of people can be laid bare, while in most multiplayer games, the ranked system shields you from the very bad & the very good players.


Edited by UrQuan, 21 November 2020 - 01:12 PM.


RemzDNB #4 Posted 21 November 2020 - 01:11 PM

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View PostGalmTwo, on 21 November 2020 - 01:07 PM, said:

Ranked works that way. SBMM with ranks.

Random battles don't. They never will.

 

Then why don't we have permanent ranked battles with separate stats then, like EVERY OTHER online game ?

So people could actually take time to build their accounts and L2P, then play for stats ?



GalmTwo #5 Posted 21 November 2020 - 01:14 PM

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View PostRemzDNB, on 21 November 2020 - 01:11 PM, said:

 

Then why don't we have permanent ranked battles with separate stats then, like EVERY OTHER online game ?

So people could actually take time to build their accounts and L2P, then play for stats ?

For real, though, perma ranked mode in this game would be dope. But no, WG likes to make fun modes (ranked, SH, FL etc) limited time only.



UrQuan #6 Posted 21 November 2020 - 01:16 PM

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View PostRemzDNB, on 21 November 2020 - 01:11 PM, said:

 

Then why don't we have permanent ranked battles with separate stats then, like EVERY OTHER online game ?

So people could actually take time to build their accounts and L2P, then play for stats ?

 

In this game, those are called rerolls. People that reset or create an account for better stats after they got through the learning period. If I got my internet lingo right, ranked games got something similar with accounts that get referred to as 'smurfs'

 

Note that we  all go through the early game as newbies, learning the game as we go on. Some learn faster, some slower (and sadly some never seem to learn). Imo, don't focus too hard on stats, enjoy the tanks, see what goes wrong when you die fast/did something that turned out dumb & learn for the next game, improving on the way.

 

And yes, a permanent ranked mode could be nice, but not sure I would play it, as I enjoy playing relaxed & in a ranked mode, I would drop as a brick when not playing my HT's. I am rather one dimensional when it comes to tanks. So if its ranked & I'm on your team with a light (because I fell like playing one) you have to accept the loss.

It is something you have to be at peace with in a ranked system, that some people are not good allrounders (which in WoT randoms is not a big issue tbh)


Edited by UrQuan, 21 November 2020 - 01:20 PM.


_LongRangeSniper_ #7 Posted 21 November 2020 - 01:21 PM

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View PostRemzDNB, on 21 November 2020 - 12:05 PM, said:

So this game is all about stats, win ratio, wn8, wg rating, etc, and you don't use them for something useful ? 

 

I constantly struggle to work out how people can come to the conclusion that balancing by stats could be good for the game.

 

 

50% winrate for everyone

Three week queues for a game for the top and bottom players.

Wn8 can't be used as it has winrate in the metric.

 

View PostRemzDNB, on 21 November 2020 - 12:11 PM, said:

Then why don't we have permanent ranked battles with separate stats then, like EVERY OTHER online game ?

So people could actually take time to build their accounts and L2P, then play for stats ?

 

I've never understood the play for stats players. If you're good the stats will follow. If you're not good and "play for stats" it's easy to spot, so you lose any credibility from your stats. Ergo...why play for stats.

 

People just check recent stats anyway. Who cares what someone played in 2013?

 

The reason ranked isn't on all the time is it isn't actually a "skill based mode", it's a time based mode where skill helps. But as you can see from the sheer number of 48% players in high ranks, you can find your niche, play to it, and eventually you can claw yourself up the ranks. Ranked doesn't have a measure for "contribution", just uses the proxy measure of XP.

 

So, if you want a healthy game in randoms where there are enough people in the queue to form games, then we have to suck up the fact there are players who play with their monitors off. Unless you can find a skill metric that doesn't have winning as part of the calculation in a game where the objective is to win.



RemzDNB #8 Posted 21 November 2020 - 01:21 PM

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View PostUrQuan, on 21 November 2020 - 01:16 PM, said:

 

In this game, those are called rerolls. People that reset or create an account for better stats after they got through the learning period. If I got my internet lingo right, ranked games got something similar with accounts that get referred to as 'smurfs'

 

Note that w  all go through the early game as newbies, learning the game as we go on. Some learn faster, some slower (and sadly some never seem to learn). Imo, don't focus too hard on stats, enjoy the tanks, see what goes wrong when you die fast/did something that turned out dumb & learn for the next game, improving on the way.

 

Yeah I know what a reroll is and I'm not aware of any other game in which people are rerolling for stats. I put much money and time on my account and I will never drop everything just to get a better win ratio, that's dumb af. Your stats should not be taken in account from your very first game, that's also dumb af. That's why most games have unranked battles for fun and ranked battles for stats.



RemzDNB #9 Posted 21 November 2020 - 01:33 PM

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View Post_LongRangeSniper_, on 21 November 2020 - 01:21 PM, said:

 

I constantly struggle to work out how people can come to the conclusion that balancing by stats could be good for the game.

 

 

50% winrate for everyone

Three week queues for a game for the top and bottom players.

Wn8 can't be used as it has winrate in the metric.

 

 

I've never understood the play for stats players. If you're good the stats will follow. If you're not good and "play for stats" it's easy to spot, so you lose any credibility from your stats. Ergo...why play for stats.

 

People just check recent stats anyway. Who cares what someone played in 2013?

 

The reason ranked isn't on all the time is it isn't actually a "skill based mode", it's a time based mode where skill helps. But as you can see from the sheer number of 48% players in high ranks, you can find your niche, play to it, and eventually you can claw yourself up the ranks. Ranked doesn't have a measure for "contribution", just uses the proxy measure of XP.

 

So, if you want a healthy game in randoms where there are enough people in the queue to form games, then we have to suck up the fact there are players who play with their monitors off. Unless you can find a skill metric that doesn't have winning as part of the calculation in a game where the objective is to win.

 

Yeah I didn't think about it that way ... that may be true.



shikaka9 #10 Posted 21 November 2020 - 01:37 PM

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and skill should be buyable :great:

 

oh wait ..

 

oh no ...

 

oh waaait ..


Edited by shikaka9, 21 November 2020 - 01:38 PM.


_LongRangeSniper_ #11 Posted 21 November 2020 - 01:40 PM

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View PostRemzDNB, on 21 November 2020 - 12:33 PM, said:

 

Yeah I didn't think about it that way ... that may be true.

 

Think about it another way. You're currently in the top 0.1% of players by recent Wn8. Even if you allowed for being in the top 0.5% of players for average tier spread, then went +- 0.5% to find players of "equal skill". That would mean with 50k players on the server you could only be matched in teams with 500 of them. Let's then say that they are playing tiers 6-10, and there are five classes to pick from for each player. 

 

How long do you think it would take to form balanced teams by vehicles when you're picking 30 players for games from a pool of 500 who can then choose any vehicle in the game among five tiers?

 

Basically, it can't be done. 

 

The other options people have argued for are to form teams normally, and then swap players between two teams like you might have done for school football teams. All that would do would be to extend the time it would take to get to a 50% winrate overall.

 

The issue for balancing by skill is finding a skill metric that isn't hugely impacted by winrate, and is flexible enough to form teams quickly. The fact is though once you're in the top 20% of players you would have huge queue times due to the diversity of tiers and tanks you can choose from.

 

I get your frustration. I look at players who clearly don't know what the funny green and red colours are on that square in the corner. But it's the price we pay for short queue times, and the game being sustainable.


Edited by _LongRangeSniper_, 21 November 2020 - 01:40 PM.


Rakii #12 Posted 21 November 2020 - 01:53 PM

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We have fast (unbalanced or whatever called) battles bcos of 

 

- early spots bcos of too fast vehicles with long spoting range on rather small maps

- too fast and strong vehicles overall (high DPM, alfa, ...) vs small HP pool

- +/- 2 MM; unfair teams, stock vehicles vs OP premiums

- RNG in every aspect of the game (25% is just too much for such PvP game)

- players not watching minimap

- unpredictable individual player´s decision (yolo rush, hero complex, afk phone, etc. )

 

Unfair (unbalanced teams) are just small part of the problem.

We have seen what they did with premium progetto. What a balance:facepalm:


Edited by Rakii, 21 November 2020 - 02:05 PM.


Private_Miros #13 Posted 21 November 2020 - 01:58 PM

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I honestly like randoms:

 

- you are guaranteed to have equally skilled allies and enemies over time;

- the games are less predictable, since mistakes can be made and non-meta positioning happens (I honestly find this the main fun challenge of the game, adapt yourself to what the team and enemy is doing, even if it isn't always the best for damage farming);

- you don't have to play only the meta tanks to be competitive, you can go out in any tank and caarry your weight as a good player;

 

I wouldn't oppose a permanent ranked mode on the side, but that does imply more campy/careful standard map approaches, more pressure to only play the good tanks in a certain tier, less variety in the way games progress (though at least the same number of sudden snowballs, simply because early advantages now matter more and are less likely to be thrown away through mistakes).



Rakii #14 Posted 21 November 2020 - 02:00 PM

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View PostPrivate_Miros, on 21 November 2020 - 01:58 PM, said:

I honestly like randoms:

 

- you are guaranteed to have equally skilled allies and enemies over time;

- the games are less predictable, since mistakes can be made and non-meta positioning happens (I honestly find this the main fun challenge of the game, adapt yourself to what the team and enemy is doing, even if it isn't always the best for damage farming);

- you don't have to play only the meta tanks to be competitive, you can go out in any tank and caarry your weight as a good player;

 

I wouldn't oppose a permanent ranked mode on the side, but that does imply more campy/careful standard map approaches, more pressure to only play the good tanks in a certain tier, less variety in the way games progress (though at least the same number of sudden snowballs, simply because early advantages now matter more and are less likely to be thrown away through mistakes).

I don´t like +/- 25% RNG and fast games and it´s getting worse with faster and stronger vehicles.

Also maps are fine for tanks like Maus but not these twisters

The game has been very different as I remember (NO formulas, fast autoloaders and other crap).


Edited by Rakii, 21 November 2020 - 02:04 PM.


Ghoststalker #15 Posted 21 November 2020 - 02:10 PM

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Call of Duty players complain about skill based matchmaking in casual matchmaking, because it means that every single game you play requires you to play at your best just to remain competitive with the people around you. While players may occasionally enjoy playing at a level that challenges their skill, players also want to relax and mess around. It takes stamina to play for a long time at a decent level. If the purpose of skill based matchmaking is to make the game more enjoyable, then it simply does not achieve its purpose. Though I have to say that reading the OP left a sour taste in my mouth. It is vulgar to the point where I'd seriously suggest that you take a good look into the mirror before you start blaming others. 



baratoz1701 #16 Posted 21 November 2020 - 02:11 PM

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man 1500 games in 30 days...... take a break, chill, then come back and kill the tomatoes?

wsatnutter #17 Posted 21 November 2020 - 02:13 PM

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funny you describe me as insane 

guess what you could just be right



baratoz1701 #18 Posted 21 November 2020 - 02:15 PM

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Also calling players an "insane retard" because they don't live up to your high expectations seems a little excessive. Not everyone plays to be the top dog, some just enjoy zooming around in a tank.......

Edited by baratoz1701, 21 November 2020 - 02:16 PM.


mpf1959 #19 Posted 21 November 2020 - 02:21 PM

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Why don't you use the player stats to balance the teams ?

 

They do, hence 15-1! :teethhappy:



Gixxer66 #20 Posted 21 November 2020 - 02:42 PM

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OP:

 

I bet you are a barrel of laughs down the pub

 

Funny with SBB your stats would drop faster than a pair of knickers in a brothel - ofc that would be some other [edited]fault.

 

Seriously you need some lessons in humility, people like you are exactly what's wrong with society, I guess that's what happens when play online games for 15 years and skip school.






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