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Too much autoloaders and autoreloaders


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GalmTwo #21 Posted 22 November 2020 - 06:24 PM

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View Postsaxsan4, on 22 November 2020 - 03:11 PM, said:

as soon as WG tries to introduce British tanks you all complain 

 

also there isn't 'too many autolders' its a MYHT

But there are a lot of them, though. Almost the entire french tree (sans the M4 54), Czech T6/T9/T10, Italian top tier meds, T57 T8/T9/T10 et cetera.

Also, who in the heck complains about Brits getting more stuff in Wot?



Ghoststalker #22 Posted 22 November 2020 - 06:25 PM

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View Postsaxsan4, on 22 November 2020 - 03:24 PM, said:


people make this claim and never provide any substantial evidence 

 

This is a post from 2014 about what people estimate to be the average match length. Funny enough, there isn't a substantial difference between then and now. 

 

http://forum.worldof...-battle-length/



Obsessive_Compulsive #23 Posted 22 November 2020 - 06:41 PM

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View PostPanTHeR_HuN, on 22 November 2020 - 05:35 PM, said:

I don't care about my dying or survival rate. sometimes I fall down from cliff for fun and

die. It isn't about that. My win rate is also decent as you see, I am saying what I see. The battles are finishing in 4 or 5 minutes different than old times. 


Do you remain in battle after dying every time to see the timer, or perhaps check the duration in the stats after every battle?


Edited by Obsessive_Compulsive, 22 November 2020 - 06:42 PM.


StronkiTonki #24 Posted 22 November 2020 - 10:34 PM

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I've been shouting this for months.

 

I think the biggest problem is probably how normalized it is that autoloaders, for some insanely dumb reason, are expected to have competetive DPM. All while autoloaders are supposed to trade in their DPM in order to have that burst of the clip damage.

 

Just look at the entire retarded Progetto 65 discussion, where everyone was being a giant crybaby because their tier 10 medium tank that has an autoloader, without the drawback of an autoloader (having to reload an entire clip even if you want to only add 1 extra shell) did not have a "competetive DPM".

Well no sh** sherlock. It's not supposed to have competetive DPM if it can empy a clip of 1440 damage in a matter of seconds, or can just individually reload shells after firing only a single shot.



tajj7 #25 Posted 23 November 2020 - 09:13 AM

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Now the Progetto/Standard B has been nerfed then there aren't many that are too good, basically I'd say the Progetto tier 8 obviously is problematic because it didn't get nerfed and the Bourrasque is too good. IS-3A as well(basically its premiums they can't nerf)

 

Most of the rest I don't think they are exceptional, most are average or even out of the meta and most are pretty tough to play play with plenty of weaknesses.  (T57, TVP, Bat Chat, 50b, Foch B, 13-105 hardly like the MM is flooded with those tanks or people complain about them). Even the newer autoloaders like the T77, Skoda T 27, Char Futur 4 have plenty of weaknesses, long reloads etc. 

 

The incoming GSOR 1008 is going to have 1.5k DPM for example, something like a 44s reload. 

 

Don't see many people complaining about those tanks or something like the Somua SM or the Lorraine or the 50120 or 50100 or most of the others 

 

Basically the big fuss is because they made the Italian mediums too strong really. They gave them a too powerful mechanic that basically removed the main weakness of the auto-loader, the vulnerability in the reload and then decided to also give them gun handling more akin to single shot tanks, plus for some baffling reason gave them ability to mount a rammer so even their DPM in single shot was competitive. 

 

Hopefully the Italian Heavies start more balanced, on initial stats it looks like the might. 



guinty1 #26 Posted 23 November 2020 - 10:21 AM

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View Postsaxsan4, on 22 November 2020 - 02:11 PM, said:

as soon as WG tries to introduce British tanks you all complain 

 

also there isn't 'too many autolders' its a MYHT

 

They exited in real life and were experimented with , we dont have ENOUGH

 

 

There should be more UK tanks in game. This game is based around world war 2 tank warfare .The UK fought in ww2 from first day too last, instead of the mickey mouse tank corps of italy,japan,poland ,france ect,we acutally did something .More uk tanks !



saxsan4 #27 Posted 23 November 2020 - 12:21 PM

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View Postguinty1, on 23 November 2020 - 09:21 AM, said:

 

 

There should be more UK tanks in game. This game is based around world war 2 tank warfare .The UK fought in ww2 from first day too last, instead of the mickey mouse tank corps of italy,japan,poland ,france ect,we acutally did something .More uk tanks !


yesss I agree 100%



WingedArchon #28 Posted 23 November 2020 - 01:59 PM

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View PostGalan7891, on 22 November 2020 - 02:26 PM, said:


The Italian/ruski autoreloaders also are limited by a single shell type per magazine.Changing ammo types in an is2-2 or a Pantera is almost as detrimental as changing ammo in a BC...unless you fire early and try to stay in a fight with even worse DPM than usual.

A point, but still not enough to invalidate my statement.

And no, its not nearly as detrimental, because the mechanic is more like conventional+ , rather than the 'original' autoloader.

The IS 2 II, Obj 703 II and the lot are basically have a normal 12-ish firing cannon like a normal IS-3 for instance, with added benefit that they get a bonus 5 second intraclip as opposed to just a single-shell reload.

Changing a shell is only as detrimental asbit would for a normal single shot tank.

For the french autoloader (take Lorraine 40T) shell change would be 30 something seconds.

For the AMX (an LT): 12 something seconds I believe, and whats normal for an LT? Half that?



Galan7891 #29 Posted 23 November 2020 - 03:57 PM

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View PostWingedArchon, on 23 November 2020 - 01:59 PM, said:

A point, but still not enough to invalidate my statement.

And no, its not nearly as detrimental, because the mechanic is more like conventional+ , rather than the 'original' autoloader.

The IS 2 II, Obj 703 II and the lot are basically have a normal 12-ish firing cannon like a normal IS-3 for instance, with added benefit that they get a bonus 5 second intraclip as opposed to just a single-shell reload.

Changing a shell is only as detrimental asbit would for a normal single shot tank.

For the french autoloader (take Lorraine 40T) shell change would be 30 something seconds.

For the AMX (an LT): 12 something seconds I believe, and whats normal for an LT? Half that?

I cant tell about the 703 since i dont have it.But the is2-2 is more like an is2...one tier higher.And changing ammo types still hurts ...



WingedArchon #30 Posted 23 November 2020 - 04:26 PM

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View PostGalan7891, on 23 November 2020 - 03:57 PM, said:

I cant tell about the 703 since i dont have it.But the is2-2 is more like an is2...one tier higher.And changing ammo types still hurts ...

Changing ammo type hurts basically everyone if you generalise, you have to go through a reload after all.

 



Galan7891 #31 Posted 23 November 2020 - 04:41 PM

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View PostWingedArchon, on 23 November 2020 - 04:26 PM, said:

Changing ammo type hurts basically everyone if you generalise, you have to go through a reload after all.

 


Not if your intuition procs...



WingedArchon #32 Posted 23 November 2020 - 04:49 PM

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View PostGalan7891, on 23 November 2020 - 04:41 PM, said:


Not if your intuition procs...

These kinds of whatif scenarios aren't constructive.

If you 'anticipate correctly' to hit the 2 key (say start of battle) then even arty and TDs with stupid high cooldowns are excused. Why, lets add stun for everyone at the start at it would even matter at that point

We're talking mechanics here.



Galan7891 #33 Posted 23 November 2020 - 05:04 PM

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View PostWingedArchon, on 23 November 2020 - 04:49 PM, said:

These kinds of whatif scenarios aren't constructive.

If you 'anticipate correctly' to hit the 2 key (say start of battle) then even arty and TDs with stupid high cooldowns are excused. Why, lets add stun for everyone at the start at it would even matter at that point

We're talking mechanics here.


Refusing to accept the negatives of a mechanic in the game isnt constructive either...but hey to each their own...



HansiVonHinten #34 Posted 23 November 2020 - 06:58 PM

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Wargaming don't give a flying f about balance in game. All new tanks shall be better than exisiting tanks, especially premium tanks.
Balance in game is long gone. 

Edited by HansiVonHinten, 23 November 2020 - 06:59 PM.


WingedArchon #35 Posted 24 November 2020 - 09:04 AM

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View PostGalan7891, on 23 November 2020 - 05:04 PM, said:


Refusing to accept the negatives of a mechanic in the game isnt constructive either...but hey to each their own...

What exactly have I been refusing that is not engaging in your whatif theorycrafts?

I tried giving a breakdown with examples.

 



pnzrKmndnt #36 Posted 09 January 2021 - 02:36 PM

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View Postpihip, on 22 November 2020 - 10:01 AM, said:

Autoreloaders are a mistake and are toxic for the game imho, as they remove one of the main weaknesses of autoloaders - if you want to refill your magazine, you have to manually force a reload and that means reloading the whole magazine, which can take anywhere from 7-8 to 50 seconds and can be a game changer.






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