63 replies to this topic

[Sylver__]

Hello everyone!

 

After 4 years of silence, I am back with almost the same suggestion as in my previous post in 2016. I have kept playing WoT almost daily since then and my experience and the way the game has evolved has conforted me in the validity of this suggestion.

 

The idea would be to consider premium ammunition similarly to a consumable, something of fixed price that you pay once you first use it and is then reusable after a cooldown. That's in my opinion one of the best things Wargaming has done in the past 4 years on consumables, perhaps this could be done on premium ammo as well.

 

Please, if you want to discuss about this, let's no go into an endless debate about our opinions and whether or not prem ammo is good or bad, but instead let's discuss what good or bad impact such change could have or what different could be done.

 

How could a longer cooldown on premium ammo like consumables improve the situation (in my opinion)?

 

• It could still have a high price that provides some revenue for Wargaming
• Perhaps it could encourage more players to use premium ammo, but on the overall players would use it less frequently in the same game
• Using premium ammo well would require more skill now since you would need to chose the appropriate moment, plan your reloads and select your targets more wisely
• It will most likely bring back some balance (except those with ridiculous armor such as the Obj279e)
• However, the benefit would depend a lot on how the cooldown would be specific to each tank and well chosen
• Could encourage teamplay to synchronize the usage of the premium ammo on an enemy that requires it most
• Would prevent "gold spam"
• Does not seem easy to apply on autoloaders
• This might punish players that use very few premium ammo in a same game because they would need to pay more than before
• Could make Ranked mode more fun? (never played it, I can only guess here)

 

Alternatively, instead of something like a consumable you pay once and get unlimited uses, other similar forms could be chosen:

• Just put a cooldown but pay each use like before
• Have the choice between several plans, such as a cheaper one with fewer shells available and a more expensive one with more shells (but still a cooldown)

 

For instance, with the T54. Currently regular AP shell cost $1230 and HEAT cost $4800.

We could have 2 options of prem ammo consumables:

• $10000 with either 4 shells and a cooldown of 90 seconds
• $20000 with either 8 shells and a cooldown of 90 seconds

 

Result:

•  A 50% discount on the previous price if you fire all 4/8 (takes at least 6/12 minutes) and worth it if you fire at least 2/4 rounds
• Once you decide to pay it, you know that you will have to use the rest wisely in the rest of the game and that you should stay alive long enough
• Could allow some players to fire a few more shells for the same price as before, could be part of a strategy
• In the case of a T-54, that is about 1280/2560 total possible damage with prem ammo which seems reasonable (half or an entire tier X heavy), far more than a player using only HEAT and dealing more in less time. This would help the player but could not be his only solution to have good results in the game

 

So, what do you think? What effect would this have, could it make the game more interesting? In which way would it change your usage (or non-usage) or premium ammo? Personnaly, I choose to never use premium ammo but if prem ammo would change in such a way I could actually be interested in using it (for instance the cheaper package with very few shells).

 

Here are other ideas I have seen about changing the way premium ammo is made available that are interesting. Do not hesitate to share yours if you have some more.

 

• Limit the number of premium ammo to a percentage of the total ammo and like the idea a lot. However, even if easy to implement it does not sound realistic since it would clearly reduce Wargaming's revenue.
• Increase the reload time of the next premium shell when using premium ammo, making the reload time longer and longer the more you use it.

 

[IntruderFI]

An other person with no clue at all

[wsatnutter]

no no no

come back in 4 yrs 

gold spam is the best thing to happen in this game ever

 

if you dont have a full gold load out then you have failed to plan and have planned to fail

[Obsessive_Compulsive]

Sylver__, on 02 December 2020 - 07:17 PM, said:

Hello everyone!

 

After 4 years of silence, I am back with almost the same suggestion as in my previous post in 2016. I have kept playing WoT almost daily since then and my experience and the way the game has evolved has conforted me in the validity of this suggestion.

 

The idea would be to consider premium ammunition similarly to a consumable, something of fixed price that you pay once you first use it and is then reusable after a cooldown. That's in my opinion one of the best things Wargaming has done in the past 4 years on consumables, perhaps this could be done on premium ammo as well.

 

Please, if you want to discuss about this, let's no go into an endless debate about our opinions and whether or not prem ammo is good or bad, but instead let's discuss what good or bad impact such change could have or what different could be done.

 

How could a longer cooldown on premium ammo like consumables improve the situation (in my opinion)?

 

• It could still have a high price that provides some revenue for Wargaming
• Perhaps it could encourage more players to use premium ammo, but on the overall players would use it less frequently in the same game
• Using premium ammo well would require more skill now since you would need to chose the appropriate moment, plan your reloads and select your targets more wisely
• It will most likely bring back some balance (except those with ridiculous armor such as the Obj279e)
• However, the benefit would depend a lot on how the cooldown would be specific to each tank and well chosen
• Could encourage teamplay to synchronize the usage of the premium ammo on an enemy that requires it most
• Would prevent "gold spam"
• Does not seem easy to apply on autoloaders
• This might punish players that use very few premium ammo in a same game because they would need to pay more than before
• Could make Ranked mode more fun? (never played it, I can only guess here)

 

Alternatively, instead of something like a consumable you pay once and get unlimited uses, other similar forms could be chosen:

• Just put a cooldown but pay each use like before
• Have the choice between several plans, such as a cheaper one with fewer shells available and a more expensive one with more shells (but still a cooldown)

 

For instance, with the T54. Currently regular AP shell cost $1230 and HEAT cost $4800.

We could have 2 options of prem ammo consumables:

• $10000 with either 4 shells and a cooldown of 90 seconds
• $20000 with either 8 shells and a cooldown of 90 seconds

 

Result:

•  A 50% discount on the previous price if you fire all 4/8 (takes at least 6/12 minutes) and worth it if you fire at least 2/4 rounds
• Once you decide to pay it, you know that you will have to use the rest wisely in the rest of the game and that you should stay alive long enough
• Could allow some players to fire a few more shells for the same price as before, could be part of a strategy
• In the case of a T-54, that is about 1280/2560 total possible damage with prem ammo which seems reasonable (half or an entire tier X heavy), far more than a player using only HEAT and dealing more in less time. This would help the player but could not be his only solution to have good results in the game

 

So, what do you think? What effect would this have, could it make the game more interesting? In which way would it change your usage (or non-usage) or premium ammo? Personnaly, I choose to never use premium ammo but if prem ammo would change in such a way I could actually be interested in using it (for instance the cheaper package with very few shells).

 

Here are other ideas I have seen about changing the way premium ammo is made available that are interesting. Do not hesitate to share yours if you have some more.

 

• Limit the number of premium ammo to a percentage of the total ammo and like the idea a lot. However, even if easy to implement it does not sound realistic since it would clearly reduce Wargaming's revenue.
• Increase the reload time of the next premium shell when using premium ammo, making the reload time longer and longer the more you use it.

 

This sounds like a nerf to any tank that is bottom tier or any tank that is using it's stock gun.

 

have you considered bottom tier tanks and stock guns?

 

 

[Dava_117]

No thanks. When I need premium ammo, I need to get access to the whole rack if needed, not being forced to wait for an eternity before I can deal damage again.

Premium ammo don't need cool down. It need real drawbacks, to prevent abuse, but without penalising bottom tier and low pen guns tanks.

Edited by Dava_117, 02 December 2020 - 08:25 PM.

[Balc0ra]

Nope. Again, until WG does some actual balance. It won't fix anything other than give power the wrong way to the wrong tanks. 279E's would have a field day if they knew they could trade half their HP and not be penned for the next 90 seconds. 

 

Nor do I want my IS-6 to have to go with a 20% chance shot vs the second VK 100.01 in that platoon every 90 seconds WG are too lacy to give it a vital pen buff. 

[Sylver__]

Obsessive_Compulsive, on 02 December 2020 - 08:05 PM, said:

This sounds like a nerf to any tank that is bottom tier or any tank that is using it's stock gun.

 

have you considered bottom tier tanks and stock guns?

 

 

 

With regards to stock guns, well what about the fact they probably are sometimes that bad to make players use premium-ammo? Perhaps premium ammo is the cause and not the solution. And you would still have the ability to use some, one shell in a while, and the rest of the time you should find weaker targets or put yourself in a better position.

 

Same answer for bottom tiers. Yes that makes the game harder and it requires players to think more.

[Obsessive_Compulsive]

Sylver__, on 02 December 2020 - 09:18 PM, said:

 

With regards to stock guns, well what about the fact they probably are sometimes that bad to make players use premium-ammo? Perhaps premium ammo is the cause and not the solution. And you would still have the ability to use some, one shell in a while, and the rest of the time you should find weaker targets or put yourself in a better position.

 

Same answer for bottom tiers. Yes that makes the game harder and it requires players to think more.

if you further reduce my stock bottom tier tanks effectiveness in battle I know exactly what i will be thinking...

[Sylver__]

Balc0ra, on 02 December 2020 - 09:17 PM, said:

Nope. Again, until WG does some actual balance. It won't fix anything other than give power the wrong way to the wrong tanks. 279E's would have a field day if they knew they could trade half their HP and not be penned for the next 90 seconds. 

 

Nor do I want my IS-6 to have to go with a 20% chance shot vs the second VK 100.01 in that platoon every 90 seconds WG are too lacy to give it a vital pen buff. 

So because of a few wrong tanks the game should stay stuck with premium ammunition with no limit? OP tanks often abuse premium ammo as well. I don't know if that would give power the wrong way, or at least in a way worse than currently. Premium ammo is already wrongly giving power to some tanks (Chieftain for instance).

 

From here on I'll stop answering about the good or bad reason of premium ammo, I've already been through it and it is endless and pointless since everybody already has his opinion and won't change his mind.

[frange]

Sylver__, on 02 December 2020 - 08:18 PM, said:

 

With regards to stock guns, well what about the fact they probably are sometimes that bad to make players use premium-ammo? Perhaps premium ammo is the cause and not the solution. And you would still have the ability to use some, one shell in a while, and the rest of the time you should find weaker targets or put yourself in a better position.

 

Same answer for bottom tiers. Yes that makes the game harder and it requires players to think more.

So what does a lone Cromwell do when he is the only one left alive in his team and the only leftover enemy is a Defender/252U? Just run away and wait for the cooldown  and draw while the rashan is just pressing W chasing him?

Edited by frange, 02 December 2020 - 09:53 PM.

[IntruderFI]

Sylver__, on 02 December 2020 - 11:33 PM, said:

So because of a few wrong tanks the game should stay stuck with premium ammunition with no limit? OP tanks often abuse premium ammo as well. I don't know if that would give power the wrong way, or at least in a way worse than currently. Premium ammo is already wrongly giving power to some tanks (Chieftain for instance).

 

From here on I'll stop answering about the good or bad reason of premium ammo, I've already been through it and it is endless and pointless since everybody already has his opinion and won't change his mind.

 

Finally

[Private_Miros]

What a horrible pay to win suggestion.

[Nishi_Kinuyo]

So basically, you're forcing tanks with no real means of dealing damage to you other than through gold ammo, to just roll over and lose?

 

The only upside I can think of this are the tears that all the Pz.Kpfw.II.Ausf.J players will shed.

[SastusBulbas]

Sylver__, on 02 December 2020 - 07:17 PM, said:

Hello everyone!

Tons of NOOBY WAAA WAAA WAAAAAAAAAA rubbish.

 

 

Three golden points to every whine. What is the crux of this problem?

 

Me as a player gets shot a lot by golden ammo.

 

Lets simplify that problem! Lets simplify the actual problem!

 

Me as a player gets shot a LOT.

 

As we can see, by breaking down this problem with a little common sense, we are approaching a somber truth to the only problem any single player can have regardless of the problem.

 

Me as a player.

 

Put your name within that me, no matter what your problem, take a step back, watch a replay of that problem, ask what YOUR problem is.

 

 

[lord_chipmonk]

As has been said many times before, changes to premium ammo require a considerable amount of game rebalancing to accomplish. There are many suggestions that might "fix" the prem. ammo "problem", but they always come back to this point. 

[BR33K1_PAWAH]

Dinger nerf?  

[Cobra6]

Obsessive_Compulsive, on 02 December 2020 - 07:05 PM, said:

This sounds like a nerf to any tank that is bottom tier or any tank that is using it's stock gun.

 

have you considered bottom tier tanks and stock guns?

 

 

 

Perhaps the solution to that issue is not "more gold spam" but rather making sure that even bottom tier tanks with stock guns are better balanced and can actually damage enemies they meet in a viable manner.

 

A bit like 6 years ago when all tanks had proper weakspots that even lower tier standard ammo could penetrate........

 

Cobra 6

[saxsan4]

until mm is made +1/-1 gold ammo spam will never be fixed

[Obsessive_Compulsive]

Cobra6, on 03 December 2020 - 08:43 AM, said:

 

Perhaps the solution to that issue is not "more gold spam" but rather making sure that even bottom tier tanks with stock guns are better balanced and can actually damage enemies they meet in a viable manner.

 

A bit like 6 years ago when all tanks had proper weakspots that even lower tier standard ammo could penetrate........

 

Cobra 6

 

I cant tell if the bold text is sarcasm or not...

 

But yes I agree regular ammo should be more viable and weakspots should exist for every tank however that will never remove the convenience of pressing 2. It's a constant war between RNG and the player and gold ammo reduces your RNG.

 

I believe the game has never been more balanced than it is now. of course we can cite anomalies in the game but they do sit outside the normal range of play. For now...

 

[Geno1isme]

Waaaay to complicated. Just nerf alpha. Trivial to implement, no risk of completely breaking the game-economy, easy to understand for everybody.