49 replies to this topic

[rohangaming]

Hey, so I was derping with my O-Ni japanese super heavy. I was firing HE at other heavy top roof armor of T29, however my shells were magically disappearing. I did not hit their gun or their roof otherwise I at least would damage their gun. I was receiving message that my shot was blocked by armor. What was this bug all about? I was under impression that suitably large HE shells when they hit would do at least something like damage external modules, but here it was just oooffff and your massive shell just disappeared into the aether. 

[24doom24]

you were probably hitting the gun mantlet. It's not a bug. HE can do zero damage if your calibre is too small or the armour is too thick. I've done 0 dmg HE hits in my death star before.

[lord_chipmonk]

Yes you can. Formula and relevant comment from WoT wiki below.

 

"

SpallCoefficient may be 1.2, 1.25, 1.3, or 1.5 if a spall liner is installed and you calculate armour damage, otherwise 1 (i.e. a spall liner does not protect external modules). actualDamage results of zero or below mean you cause no damage."

[rohangaming]

Even with those massive derp cannons? I mean, 15 cm howitzers do not joke around and if I hit gun mantlet, shouldn't I damage gun next to it by inflicting module damage via splash?

[fwhaatpiraat]

Have you checked your own replay?

[NekoPuffer_PPP]

O-Ni can load AP on its derp too...

 

Were you firing AP?...

[rohangaming]

I always use HE on that tank. It is on my primary key. I just love predictability of HE. It is what I value the most within my shells.

Edited by rohangaming, 03 December 2020 - 05:26 PM.

[rohangaming]

fwhaatpiraat, on 03 December 2020 - 05:05 PM, said:

Have you checked your own replay?

 

First shell seemed to vanish (after watching replay a second time, shell had extremely bad RNG and went to an opposite direction than I fired and hit the pillar). Second and third were blocked by armor. My target was wiggling his gun, but I'm not sure where they went. There wasn't much of visual feedback nor any scratches on this tank which I could see. I assume that if I hit his gun, at least I would get critical damage notification. I also assume that HE shells have tracers and they explode on contact. I was struggling to see any impact of that either.

Edited by rohangaming, 03 December 2020 - 05:41 PM.

[Dava_117]

rohangaming, on 03 December 2020 - 05:34 PM, said:

 

First shell seemed to vanish. Second and third were blocked by armor. My target was wiggling his gun, but I'm not sure where they went. There wasn't much of visual feedback nor any scratches on this tank which I could see. I assume that if I hit his gun, at least I would get critical damage notification. I also assume that HE shells have tracers and they explode on contact. I was struggling to see any impact of that either.

 

Modules have saving rolls. You can hit the gun and do nothing to hit while being far enough from the armour to deal damage. Or you could have hit the top edge of the mantlet for a double layer of armour.

[Nishi_Kinuyo]

rohangaming, on 03 December 2020 - 05:34 PM, said:

 

First shell seemed to vanish (after watching replay a second time, shell had extremely bad RNG and went to an opposite direction than I fired and hit the pillar). Second and third were blocked by armor. My target was wiggling his gun, but I'm not sure where they went. There wasn't much of visual feedback nor any scratches on this tank which I could see. I assume that if I hit his gun, at least I would get critical damage notification. I also assume that HE shells have tracers and they explode on contact. I was struggling to see any impact of that either.

Replay? Where?

 

But yeah, without being able to see what happened, I'm calling incomplete knowledge of HE mechanics on this.

lord_chipmonk, on 03 December 2020 - 04:52 PM, said:

Yes you can. Formula and relevant comment from WoT wiki below.

 

"

SpallCoefficient may be 1.2, 1.25, 1.3, or 1.5 if a spall liner is installed and you calculate armour damage, otherwise 1 (i.e. a spall liner does not protect external modules). actualDamage results of zero or below mean you cause no damage."

This also means that Spall Liners (even after the general buff to 50%/60%) are of limited use against HE shells, if the raw armour thickness of the place hit isn't thick enough to begin with.

[rohangaming]

What is this? W40k tabletop? 

 

So, I can hit a gun with large caliber HE shell and it won't even incur module damage on that gun? 

16:51 Added after 4 minute

Nishi_Kinuyo, on 03 December 2020 - 05:46 PM, said:

Replay? Where?

 

But yeah, without being able to see what happened, I'm calling incomplete knowledge of HE mechanics on this.

This also means that Spall Liners (even after the general buff to 50%/60%) are of limited use against HE shells, if the raw armour thickness of the place hit isn't thick enough to begin with.

 

Formula here explains absolutely nothing as I was hitting enemy tank, but it resulted in armor absorbing the shot. I assumed that if gun would get in its way, I would score at least a critical strike on that module. Getting a message that my shot was absorbed by armor or how it is in game was very puzzling to me. I know that low caliber HE guns can do that, but high caliber guns will roll damage on any kind of armor if it connects.

 

Here is your replay:

http://wotreplays.eu...ohangaming-o-ni

Edited by rohangaming, 03 December 2020 - 05:52 PM.

[Nazgarth]

rohangaming, on 03 December 2020 - 05:46 PM, said:

but high caliber guns will roll damage on any kind of armor if it connects.

 

Obviously that is not the case, and the formula explains why you did no damage...

[rohangaming]

That formula hardly explains anything. If I hit tank gun mantlet directly, HE then splashes down. If I hit gun mantlet on its top, HE splashes into the turret top and I have over 4 times nominal damage than T29 has armor on its thickest point.

Edited by rohangaming, 03 December 2020 - 06:00 PM.

[24doom24]

watched your replay,

 

First shot derps into the rubble. 

 

Next 2 shots hit the tip of the T29s gun. 

[Nazgarth]

rohangaming, on 03 December 2020 - 05:59 PM, said:

That formula hardly explains anything. If I hit tank gun mantlet directly, HE then splashes down. If I hit gun mantlet on its top, HE splashes into the turret top.

Splashing onto the hull roof is entirely dependant on where you hit the mantlet, and is also affected by what direction his turret is facing. Additionally, you mentioned previously that you were aiming for the roof of the turret not the base of the mantlet.

The top area behind the gun mantlet is 200mm of armour, the distance between the top of the gun mantlet and actual weak armour is considerable.

[lord_chipmonk]

Nishi_Kinuyo, on 03 December 2020 - 05:46 PM, said:

This also means that Spall Liners (even after the general buff to 50%/60%) are of limited use against HE shells, if the raw armour thickness of the place hit isn't thick enough to begin with.

 

Which is what I keep trying to tell people every time the topic comes up. Spall liners are rubbish. 

17:19 Added after 4 minute

rohangaming, on 03 December 2020 - 05:46 PM, said:

What is this? W40k tabletop? 

 

Essentially, yes. WoT has always been basically a tabletop wargame in a PC where you drive the machines. 

 

So, I can hit a gun with large caliber HE shell and it won't even incur module damage on that gun? 

 

Correct. From the WoT wiki:

"Saving Throw

When a module or crew member is hit, they do not necessarily take damage from the hit. Instead, most modules have a specific chance not to take damage. This is also referred to as a saving throw. The base chances of damaging a specific module or crew member when hitting it are as follows:

• Suspension: 100%
• Engine: 45%
• Fuel Tank: 45%
• Observation Device: 45%
• Radio: 45%
• Turret Ring: 45%
• Gun: 33%
• Ammunition Rack: 27%

All crew members have the same chance to get knocked out when hit, however starting with game version 0.7.4 this chance depends on the damage type:

• Crew hit by AP/APCR/HEAT shell: 33%
• Crew hit by (internal) explosion: 10%

Each of these base chances to damage a module or knock out a crew member can be increased by 3 if the Deadeye perk is active for the attacking Gunner at the time of a shot with an AP, APCR or HEAT shell.

No other factors influence these chances. The amount of ammunition you are carrying does not affect the chance of your ammunition rack taking damage."

16:51 Added after 4 minute

 

Formula here explains absolutely nothing as I was hitting enemy tank, but it resulted in armor absorbing the shot. I assumed that if gun would get in its way, I would score at least a critical strike on that module. Getting a message that my shot was absorbed by armor or how it is in game was very puzzling to me. I know that low caliber HE guns can do that, but high caliber guns will roll damage on any kind of armor if it connects.

 

The formula shows the conditions under which a HE shell exploding on a vehicle's armour plate would do 0 damage. This is the very thing you are asking about. That is why I quoted it.

24doom24, on 03 December 2020 - 06:10 PM, said:

watched your replay,

 

First shot derps into the rubble. 

 

Next 2 shots hit the tip of the T29s gun. 

 

Thank you for clearing things up.

[rohangaming]

So, I rolled 45% chance to do nothing to a gun and on top of that my gun also missbehaved. These mechanics are so silly.

17:29 Added after 2 minute

Nazgarth, on 03 December 2020 - 06:13 PM, said:

Splashing onto the hull roof is entirely dependant on where you hit the mantlet, and is also affected by what direction his turret is facing. Additionally, you mentioned previously that you were aiming for the roof of the turret not the base of the mantlet.

The top area behind the gun mantlet is 200mm of armour, the distance between the top of the gun mantlet and actual weak armour is considerable.

 

Yup, this is why I mentioned two possibilities where HE would do damage either way.

Edited by rohangaming, 03 December 2020 - 06:28 PM.

[Nazgarth]

rohangaming, on 03 December 2020 - 06:26 PM, said:

So, I rolled 45% chance to do nothing to a gun and on top of that my gun also missbehaved. These mechanics are so silly.

17:29 Added after 2 minute

 

Yup, this is why I mentioned two possibilities where HE would do damage either way.

Except in both those those cases damage may not happen... did you actually read what I posted?

Edited by Nazgarth, 03 December 2020 - 07:02 PM.

[lord_chipmonk]

rohangaming, on 03 December 2020 - 06:26 PM, said:

So, I rolled 45% chance to do nothing to a gun and on top of that my gun also missbehaved. These mechanics are so silly.

 

If I'm being pedantic, the chances I posted were the chances to do damage. You rolled a 55% to not do so. As to whether they are silly or not, that is a matter of opinion.

[Dava_117]

rohangaming, on 03 December 2020 - 06:26 PM, said:

Yup, this is why I mentioned two possibilities where HE would do damage either way.

 

Those 2 possibilities can happens only if the shells land in a specific place.

If you hit the flat top part of the mantlet, you are likely far enought from the hull roof to not deal damage (maybe a lowroll of damage) and you have no chance to hit the turret roof due to the whole frontal armour being in front of it. 

Remember that the HE blast radius is a sphere centered in the impact point. The game automatically calculate the radius from which the damage is maximised and use it. 

Edited by Dava_117, 03 December 2020 - 07:01 PM.