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Newbies do's and dont's from a newbie

newbie improving tactics learning noob unicum lessons

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Dead_in_30_seconds #21 Posted 28 January 2021 - 06:13 PM

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View PostMiepie, on 28 January 2021 - 04:59 PM, said:

Aww, don't be mean. I only said I didn't notice it being worse/better. :(

You miss the point my friend, no meanness intended, merely pointing out that I respect your opinion to such a degree that I modify my beliefs when taking other people's opinion into account. Especially when those 'other' people have shown themselves to be reputable. All players, yourself and myself included, can be judged by their input into this community. Your input has always been well regarded.

Apologies if I appeared dismissive or disrespectful, that cannot be further from my intention.



Discontinued #22 Posted 28 January 2021 - 06:21 PM

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View PostDead_in_30_seconds, on 28 January 2021 - 05:23 PM, said:

Firstly Discontinued, can I just thank you for taking the time to reply, even if out of some sort of Dinger loyalty, I appreciate it.

 

A valid point of course, age, memory, reflexes etc aren't as sharp as they used to be, but I do think age has it's benefits. We are far less likely to rush headlong into any situation, the flip-side being 'overthinking' it, but one must assume you were in the 48-51 range at some point. Perhaps, though I suspect not, you weren't classified as a spring chicken? So how did you make the transition from 'middle ground' to Godly heights?

 

 

This is a question I've been asking myself now for a while,

 

I'm not a good player I think if I'm honest the way i got 59% wins in world of warplanes was by just realising my strengths and avoiding planes i didn't like or classes i did not enjoy, Come to think of it in all three titles I've never really had any interest in heavies, whether it be a battleship, heavy fighter/bomber or heavy tanks. Even in FPS games I preferred to play close combat or medic rather than sniper, or heavy class. 

 

Heavy things, they just don't interest me, and I made the same mistake on this reroll

 

I stupidly wanted to complete the campaigns again, I forgot I suck in heavies, I forgot I'm a lameoid in mediums. I could not recall if I was any good with sniper tds, or Arty.

 

if I had my time again I wouldn't have rage delete my account as I would be on 13k games with probably 49%- edging to 51%, but most of all I remembered that the only class I'm even remotely unhorrible at is light tanks

 

Last night I even did the Sleipnir manoeuvre 3 times 

 

With planes my journey to pro-ness was to conclude I sucked balls in all the classes but one, fighter planes, it took a while to figure this out, I'm not good I just don't play classes I suck in,

 

If only i had remembered to do this with WOT i would be happily sitting at 50% +

 

If only I wasn't gifted all those xmas heavies I don't enjoy, traded and sold that garbage

 

lesson learned the hard way, ill keep spending but I wont get anymore premium tanks again. (famous last words)

 

With tanks I have decided to focus only on the tanks I enjoy and do well in and yes even if a tank is great but loses 70% of the time I will find it becomes unfun very fast

 

Now if only those lovely W.G people could kindly delete all my medium tanks, heavy tank and arty records ill go full Sasksan again (Just leave the Borrasguqe alone its a light tank in medium tanks clothing) but delete all the rest.

 

Ty in advance!

 

 

 


Edited by Discontinued, 28 January 2021 - 06:35 PM.


Dead_in_30_seconds #23 Posted 28 January 2021 - 06:53 PM

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For example.

 

I find myself trapped, and suffer inevitable death, but would you be able to spot a point where you would have played differently?

 

Please don't misjudge me, I'm not trying to say 'hey, look at me', I'm genuinely interested in trying to learn where my failings might be.

This is typical of games I have.

 

http://wotreplays.eu/site/5751887?secret=93c8b0e32b4f25add778b822caa008b4

 

Thank you in advance for any time you may spend on this, I truly appreciate it.

 

DiTS

 

 



thetopcat #24 Posted 28 January 2021 - 06:56 PM

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One of the main things that took me a while to figure out is to play to the strength of the tank you're in. 
for example: 
If you're in an Emil 1 you have to find a place where you can engage the enemy with you being hull down. 
A Grille TD you want to find a position where you can take ranged shots at the enemy (use that accuracy and high penetration) 

But a backup plan is always good. Something like a rock for cover if you are spotted or a position you can drive back to for a new ambush. 

Good luck in your battles 

Dead_in_30_seconds #25 Posted 28 January 2021 - 07:11 PM

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View Postthetopcat, on 28 January 2021 - 05:56 PM, said:

One of the main things that took me a while to figure out is to play to the strength of the tank you're in. 
for example: 
If you're in an Emil 1 you have to find a place where you can engage the enemy with you being hull down. 
A Grille TD you want to find a position where you can take ranged shots at the enemy (use that accuracy and high penetration) 

But a backup plan is always good. Something like a rock for cover if you are spotted or a position you can drive back to for a new ambush. 

Good luck in your battles 

 

Thanks topcat, I am playing more and more TD's at the moment, so that feedback is good for me.

 

But I'm kinda looking for what might be impossible to answer. How did you make the transition from a 51% player, to the heady heights of 55% that you currently enjoy?

 

Is/was there something you realised that allowed you to progress?

 

Difficult or impossible to answer I know, but I greatly value the opinions and thoughts of those better than I.

 



LincolnTank #26 Posted 28 January 2021 - 07:20 PM

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A very well thought out post. I’m 46 and have been playing for 5 years now. I was a tomato but now I’m on the cusp of being classed as an average, almost creeping into the above average category (current WN8 is 49.5%). It demonstrates that improvement can happen even when age could be slowing things down a bit


In_Flames90 #27 Posted 28 January 2021 - 07:32 PM

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I haven't watched the replay, just wanna comment.

It's really easy to critique in hindsight. You should try to explain "YOUR" thought process in the battle as well when uploading replays. Because maybe you were right all along, and were just being unlucky. It happens.

 

As for trying to improve. I would strongly advice to move a bit up the tiers and "re-learn" the game from there. As per Wot-Labs you're mostly playing around T2-4, and from my experience it's just too random and chaotic at those tiers to really improve on your game. By that I mean there are still a lot of sealclubbing going on, and a lot of broken tanks that can eat you up in seconds. Maybe it's been improved a little after the HP buff, but I don't really play those tiers that much to tell. If you find it fun to play those tiers and have no interest to move up, then by all means you should stick to it!

 

If you want to try moving up though, there is probably not that much that you learn at those tiers that translate over to higher tiers. Viewrange, camo, armor and awareness plays a much bigger part. It shouldn't be scary to take the plunge and try some T5-7. Find some tanks you enjoy there and keep learning your new tanks and opponents.

 

As for me. Reading the flow of battle, making a plan and learning the maps is what keeps me improving. Sometimes I overextend, sometimes I play too passive, but more often than not I keep making good decisions that benefit the team and myself. I play tanks to their strengths, not by their class.

Tips:

- Don't play front line when you're bottom tier, but support the higher ones by tracking and pulling attention.

- Don't choose obvious spots every time when playing more passive/sniping. Good players know them.

- Try not to use the same bush over and over when shooting. Take a shot, move 2m to either side and repeat. Less likely of a blind shot.

- Conserve your HP. Don't peak on 4 tanks just to get 1 shot of damage, let them peak (or someone stupid and shoot while they are reloading)

- Don't go alone. If a flank is left unprotected, don't be the hero that drives there anyway with no support and complain when the enemy rushes you.

- Don't play Lights and TD's. This is just my preference, but I feel like they're too dependent on your team to have reliably good games, of course there's exceptions, but broadly that's my find.

- Set yourself goals. Even at a loss it can still feel like a small victory if you've achieved something. MoE from T5 is a good way, Fire for effect medals, 1k damage, 1.5k damage and so on.



lord_chipmonk #28 Posted 28 January 2021 - 07:39 PM

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View PostIn_Flames90, on 28 January 2021 - 07:32 PM, said:

I haven't watched the replay, just wanna comment.

It's really easy to critique in hindsight. You should try to explain "YOUR" thought process in the battle as well when uploading replays. Because maybe you were right all along, and were just being unlucky. It happens.

 

Agreed. 

 

As for trying to improve. I would strongly advice to move a bit up the tiers and "re-learn" the game from there. As per Wot-Labs you're mostly playing around T2-4, and from my experience it's just too random and chaotic at those tiers to really improve on your game. By that I mean there are still a lot of sealclubbing going on, and a lot of broken tanks that can eat you up in seconds. Maybe it's been improved a little after the HP buff, but I don't really play those tiers that much to tell. If you find it fun to play those tiers and have no interest to move up, then by all means you should stick to it!

 

It has improved, but another good point. Low tiers have a limited map spread too. I would recommend tier 5/6.

 

If you want to try moving up though, there is probably not that much that you learn at those tiers that translate over to higher tiers. Viewrange, camo, armor and awareness plays a much bigger part. It shouldn't be scary to take the plunge and try some T5-7. Find some tanks you enjoy there and keep learning your new tanks and opponents.

 

100% agree.

 

As for me. Reading the flow of battle, making a plan and learning the maps is what keeps me improving. Sometimes I overextend, sometimes I play too passive, but more often than not I keep making good decisions that benefit the team and myself. I play tanks to their strengths, not by their class.

Tips:

- Don't play front line when you're bottom tier, but support the higher ones by tracking and pulling attention.

- Don't choose obvious spots every time when playing more passive/sniping. Good players know them.

- Try not to use the same bush over and over when shooting. Take a shot, move 2m to either side and repeat. Less likely of a blind shot.

- Conserve your HP. Don't peak on 4 tanks just to get 1 shot of damage, let them peak (or someone stupid and shoot while they are reloading)

- Don't go alone. If a flank is left unprotected, don't be the hero that drives there anyway with no support and complain when the enemy rushes you.

- Don't play Lights and TD's. This is just my preference, but I feel like they're too dependent on your team to have reliably good games, of course there's exceptions, but broadly that's my find.

- Set yourself goals. Even at a loss it can still feel like a small victory if you've achieved something. MoE from T5 is a good way, Fire for effect medals, 1k damage, 1.5k damage and so on.

 

Good points in this post. :great:



lord_chipmonk #29 Posted 28 January 2021 - 08:58 PM

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Was gonna watch your replay OP...but forgot it's patch day. I'll patch overnight and watch it tomorrow (assuming I have time).

Dead_in_30_seconds #30 Posted 28 January 2021 - 09:09 PM

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View PostIn_Flames90, on 28 January 2021 - 06:32 PM, said:

I haven't watched the replay, just wanna comment.

It's really easy to critique in hindsight. You should try to explain "YOUR" thought process in the battle as well when uploading replays. Because maybe you were right all along, and were just being unlucky. It happens.

 

As for trying to improve. I would strongly advice to move a bit up the tiers and "re-learn" the game from there. As per Wot-Labs you're mostly playing around T2-4, and from my experience it's just too random and chaotic at those tiers to really improve on your game. By that I mean there are still a lot of sealclubbing going on, and a lot of broken tanks that can eat you up in seconds. Maybe it's been improved a little after the HP buff, but I don't really play those tiers that much to tell. If you find it fun to play those tiers and have no interest to move up, then by all means you should stick to it!

 

If you want to try moving up though, there is probably not that much that you learn at those tiers that translate over to higher tiers. Viewrange, camo, armor and awareness plays a much bigger part. It shouldn't be scary to take the plunge and try some T5-7. Find some tanks you enjoy there and keep learning your new tanks and opponents.

 

As for me. Reading the flow of battle, making a plan and learning the maps is what keeps me improving. Sometimes I overextend, sometimes I play too passive, but more often than not I keep making good decisions that benefit the team and myself. I play tanks to their strengths, not by their class.

Tips:

- Don't play front line when you're bottom tier, but support the higher ones by tracking and pulling attention.

- Don't choose obvious spots every time when playing more passive/sniping. Good players know them.

- Try not to use the same bush over and over when shooting. Take a shot, move 2m to either side and repeat. Less likely of a blind shot.

- Conserve your HP. Don't peak on 4 tanks just to get 1 shot of damage, let them peak (or someone stupid and shoot while they are reloading)

- Don't go alone. If a flank is left unprotected, don't be the hero that drives there anyway with no support and complain when the enemy rushes you.

- Don't play Lights and TD's. This is just my preference, but I feel like they're too dependent on your team to have reliably good games, of course there's exceptions, but broadly that's my find.

- Set yourself goals. Even at a loss it can still feel like a small victory if you've achieved something. MoE from T5 is a good way, Fire for effect medals, 1k damage, 1.5k damage and so on.

 

And yet again I marvel at the generosity of fellow players.

Thank you so much In_Flames90, the points you make are exactly the sort of feedback I'm after.

 

I think Wotlabs, as good as it is, can sometimes give a false impression. It reflects the fact that in my early days I played 2-4, but I have been playing 3-7 much more over the last 1000 games or so.

 

Obvious spots/same bush is interesting, more often they are good places that give best line of sight/corridor cover etc, but you're right of course, if I know them, so might the enemy.

 

The other point I'm giving serious consideration to is, the 'don't play Lights and TD's' because of their reliance on other team-mates. Hmmm, perhaps I should be master of my own destiny, rather than placing so much reliance on others.

 

Lots to ponder Flames, thank you for your post.

 

DiTS



Dead_in_30_seconds #31 Posted 28 January 2021 - 09:26 PM

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OK, another typical battle today.

 

What should I have done in the moment, not with the benefit of hindsight?

 

http://wotreplays.eu/site/5752261?secret=93c8b0e32b4f25add778b822caa008b4



Darth_Nox_ #32 Posted 28 January 2021 - 09:38 PM

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Newbie's don't - play this game

Newbie's do - play some game that is actually good



Dead_in_30_seconds #33 Posted 28 January 2021 - 09:49 PM

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And yet here you are, 6 years in, 42K battles, for a game you suggest we shouldn't play.

Seems a little like a junkie dissing the very drug they can't do without :)



Darth_Nox_ #34 Posted 28 January 2021 - 09:53 PM

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That's the best advice I can give to new players.

lord_chipmonk #35 Posted 28 January 2021 - 10:27 PM

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Right, watched the first game, will try and watch the other tomorrow or something. 

 

First chunk of comments is a time-stamped list of my thoughts as I was watching (so no benefit of hindsight). Final few bullet points at the end are the TLDR version. It looks like a lot because I am intentionally being picky and you make a number of mistakes that you'll get away with far more at the lower tiers than higher. 

 

Tier 3 - Abbey - Somua S35

 

-Full gold layout. Why? You're top tier. You don't need 100 pen for this. It is your choice, but do you use gold ammo as a crutch to make up for your lack of knowledge of armour layouts & weak spots? If so, change this if you wish to improve.
-Equipment: Camo net & binos? Is there no better available? 

 

14:42
You go towards the 9 line on the map. I would argue on Abbey, the Abbey or 1/2 lines are the most important locations on the map; they give you options. If for example your cap is under pressure, both locations give you ways to deal with it. From the 9 line what are you going to do? All you can do is drive all the way back, which takes time and you then have no good position from which to defend the cap.
-Do you think about what is on the enemy team in the countdown and react accordingly or just go to the same place on a map each time? In this case, the Pz S35s, arty & Marder are probably your biggest threats. If you meet one on the 9 line and the engagement doesn't go as you want, what are you going to do? I'd have gone to the 1/2 lines are pushed there instead. 

 

14:02
-M3 Stuart shows up and you stop out in the open to try and engage him. Moving forward to the rocky outcrop on your left instead, close to the Pz 1C would give you more cover to use and would be a more arty safe location.

 

13:53
-You bounce a shot from one of the Pz S35s. If that had been someone with a larger gun you would have taken a chunk of damage for no good reason. This is why I suggested using the piece of cover ahead of you.

 

13:49
-That's two tanks shooting you now. Thankfully you have some armour. If you didn't, you'd be getting worked over right now. Higher tiers won't forgive mistakes like this as much. 

 

13:36
-How well do you know the armour profile of your tank? It is asymmetrical and the way you angle it here you flatten the left hand "shoulder" giving the Pz III an easy shot to pen you. You'd have been better angling the hull the other way as the right hand side of the tank doesn't have this weak spot. 

 

13:27
-Stuart pens you. You are STILL just sitting out in front of multiple tanks without using any cover to reduce incoming fire. Sure, you have some armour, but the best armour is not getting hit in the first place. You could probably have avoided both of these penetrating shots so far, certainly one of them. They are firing regular AP.

 

13:03
-Finally you get into cover, but only after you've already lost 2/3 of your health. If you'd fought from here in the first place you could have still had most of your health remaining. Just sitting there in front of multiple enemy tanks letting them shoot you is not a good winning strategy!

 

12:54
Ok, yes you got into cover but you're just sitting there. Use a position to fight from. There is a middle ground between sitting in the open and hiding behind a rock. Good that you don't block your ally in the Chi-Ha though; many would have done so.

 

12:49
-AMX 38 turns up; this fight is not looking good. Thankfully for you, the enemy Pz S35 drowned himself and the other one is on the other flank, BUT that AMX will go through your Pz1C like a hot knife through butter. The Chi-Ha might do alright if he is experienced (HA!) and you're low health. I'd be considering running at this point. But, then again, that is hard to do from this flank (see previous comments about options) as you expose yourself to fire to do so.

 

12:21
-Locust kills your Chi-Ha. You are now looking pretty screwed. The Pz1C will die soon and then you're horribly outnumbered. However, you now know that the Locust has pulled forward and Pz S35 is dead. Looking at the minimap, the Marder is the only enemy not accounted for. Pulling back slowly now might be possible, as the tanks who were shooting you earlier before you hugged cover are not in a position to punish you if you do fall back. If you don't fall back, you are dead. 

 

11:44
-Pz IIIE is coming to support you, which is likely suicide on his part, but hey-ho. From your perspective I guess it could help and the score is 10:1, you'd struggle to lose it. 

 

11:20

-Engagement with Stuart, you just sit there and let him pen you with AP. Again, the way you're angling exposes yuor shoulder weak spot making you an easy pen even with standard AP. You want to angle to cover weak points where you can, and if you keep your tank moving it makes it harder for the enemy to aim at them. He was sit on to you, if you find manual aiming hard while moving your tank back and forth, just autoaim at him. More of your precious HP slipping away which you could have tried to prevent. 

 

11:08
-The Pz IIIE who came to support you is now duking it out with the AMX. This is a fight he will likely lose. You could take advantage of the AMX being distracted to put shots into him. Else, he'll kill your Pz friend and then kill you.

 

10:55
-Really nice shot to track the AMX, but with no follow up, you're just delaying the inevitable... 

Ok, main points:


1) Map positioning. You are not going to positions that give you options, which makes it hard to run away if things go wrong. Try to give yourself options. 

2) You need to learn armour profiles, both of the enemy and your own tank.
3) Don't get shot if you can help it! Fight from cover and don't sit in the open vs superior numbers of enemies with better positions!

4) Although your damage count was respectable, none of that damage helped the team to win the game. The game was won on the 1/2 lines and so as you played it, you basically had no impact on the victory (or loss had it gone that way). Again, think about your positioning. 



PhooBar #36 Posted 28 January 2021 - 10:51 PM

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Dear brother DiTS...

You are NOT a "newbie". 

You are a nOOB.



Dead_in_30_seconds #37 Posted 28 January 2021 - 11:26 PM

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View PostPhooBar, on 28 January 2021 - 09:51 PM, said:

Dear brother DiTS...

You are NOT a "newbie". 

You are a nOOB.

 

Sorry, my mistake :)



Gruff_ #38 Posted 29 January 2021 - 04:33 AM

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View PostDead_in_30_seconds, on 28 January 2021 - 11:26 PM, said:

 

Sorry, my mistake :)


As others have said you are limiting yourelf by sticking to the lower tiers so much. If you enjoy it fair enough but if you want to get better you need to play higher up where there is less room for error.  If you put in the effort at tiers 6-9 for 3 months without touching any tanks below those tiers when you return to play your tier 3-4s you will get higher wn8 & winrate than you currently do as you will have a better understanding of the game.



Ceeb #39 Posted 29 January 2021 - 08:40 AM

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Only thing i wish i didn't do back in the day is rush the tiers get my first tier 10 (leo 1 then T62A) then join a clan to do Clan wars,   early days with BULL were great, TEC.

 

Put me off CWs for a long time, still not over it, tried again two years ago. up against teams with 907s and 279es (FV wasnt out then).

 

wish i sat at Tier 6-8 for a 10k games before moving up.



Emerald_322 #40 Posted 29 January 2021 - 08:47 AM

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Even I ( a 58-60%er) can never be sure about the battle, its why this game is so random, you can never fully predict the actions of the enemy team.

 

It's the little things  that matter  that eventually they affect the course of the battle.

 

In my mind i have a set of questions before each and during the course of  the  battle. 

 

-What map is it, where are the strongpoints of this map?

- What tanks does the enemy team has? Where are they likely to go? 

-where can i go to spot/get early shots on the enemy team?

-Where can i go to support  safely the X player that goes there, and is it worth it to support him?

-If i go there can i retreat safely ?

 etc

 

Always  have some form of hard cover  next to you, a rock a building a ditch w/e can help you avoid shots. 

Also next time you enter the game press the "+'' twice,  this will increase the size of your minimap. Always keep an eye on it, look at your minimap everytime there no enemy infront of you  and try to adapt to the enemy moves. Awareness is key.

 

 

Keep in mind that every player has its strongpoints and weak points.  And try to improve them.

 

I for myself  i know that i am very aggressive  and that my aiming  aint that good, i know that i am a strategist and not a marksman,   So i always do plays that affect the game just by me being there. Creating crossfires etc.   Try to identify your own strongpoints, and play to your advantage


Edited by Emerald_322, 29 January 2021 - 08:53 AM.






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