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Sandbox 2021: Try Out Crew 2.0! - **Updated - Read Original Post**


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Miepie #1661 Posted 03 March 2021 - 05:05 PM

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View PostGrayDwarf, on 03 March 2021 - 05:00 PM, said:

 I like a cool skin, but I'd like to see it beforehand.

<< generic beforeskin joke>>



Flixx2 #1662 Posted 03 March 2021 - 05:42 PM

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As my inigame survey is gone after the new update and i cant submit it, i hope my feedback will be herad here.

(TLDR: the pay2win effect are massive. I heavily critique the cost increases (both in credits and XP) for crew retraining. Also WG promised multiple times to not devalue 0skill Crews but they masively did. Last but not least, the elite progress (beyond lvl 75 is overpovered and just plain unfair.)

 

 

And now the long version:

 

  1. This Point is very important and seems to be overseen a bit by many Players: Paying 500k credits to lose 10% of overall XP instead of paying 80k credits to loose ~39k crew XP as it was before is just insane. I would much rather still have 75% Crews instead of All beeing trained to 100%. The new System is effectively a price increase of e.g. 2000% (in Words Two Thousand percent) when you take a 5 member 3 full skill crew. You pay 5 times more and lose 4 times more XP (~150k XP)). This change makes me really angry. I dont mind spending money on the game. But this is just way to much as you are prety much forced to retrain for gold and 750g per vehicle gets a lot very fast.

  2. The prestige progress pretty much means that everybody is starting with a ~85% crew. Then they first have to train (or boost with irl money) the crew up to lvl 75 (6 MILION XP) before they can start training the last 15% of the crew. This system is insane. At the first glance it loocks like 'Nice, everybody gets a 100% crew from the getgo.' but the reality is '[edited]you everyone, you get a 85% crew from the getgo, but you can spend 150 MILLION credits to get a 100% crew'.

  3. Wargaming multiple times promised that 0skill Crews will keep their value. The big value of 0skill Crews is a: you are always one skill ahead, no matter how many skills you have and b: you get a pretty ok crew right from the getgo (2.5 skills after some battles). In the New system, the 2.5 skill 0skill crew will be about equal to a previously 1.7 skill Standard Crew which is pathetic. Here is a short example: take a 4 member, 2.5 0Skill crew. It will convert to something like 19 skill points. This means you only can use ONE of your four instructors. This one instructor wil only give you 2 skill points. So your 4 0skill member that had been worth exactly one skill, ie about 15 skill points, now only are worth 2 points. As If this was not enough, you cant even freely chose which skill these 2 pints shal be assigned. The New value of these instructors now comes after you maxed out the crew. At that point you can exploit some skills to get massive advantages. BUT again, only after gambling for the right instructor boosts.

So all in all even tho i do find some parts of the new system interesting and exciting, i completely disagree with the pay2win and 'give a huge advantage to some crasily dedicated (be it tima and money or only money) players' direction all these changes are going.

Thx to everyone who meade it down here. Have a good day everyone.



adavar1 #1663 Posted 03 March 2021 - 06:14 PM

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Hi, based on quickybaby's video previews i dont like changes in crew 2.0 as well as changes to HE mechanicks. All the best.

Golza #1664 Posted 03 March 2021 - 06:16 PM

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Anyone bought the "Truth in Sandbox" 2D camo? How does it look like?

ritam_nereda #1665 Posted 03 March 2021 - 06:27 PM

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Tokens are here, survey not :trollface:

Konspiration #1666 Posted 03 March 2021 - 06:30 PM

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I think everything was said before multiple times: WG, please rework the changes that you want to implement!

 

1) Keep the HE mechanic as is and just reduce the splash circle. Otherwise the changes will

  • kill the fun on HE tanks like KV-2 and alike
  • make it impossible for low tiers to penetrate super heavies 
  • force more players to fire premium 

2) Change Crew 2.0

  • set max values per tank that cannot be exceeded by crew skills
  • don't ask for extra money *twice* for crews to be able to drive 2 tanks - once for the second slot and once for retraining them
  • compensate appropriate to people that have many tanks and many crews. Give us the choice to either switch a crew to the new system or to get crew books of the same xp value instead.
  • compensate zero skills accordingly - otherwise you take away a gift that you made in the past
  • reduce penalty for not using gold to learn second tank in a way that the *first* tank is not affected by the crew penalty
  • increase the benefit for instructors or give the choice to swap them to crew books of equal xp

 

Please, please rework the changes.

 

 



BarNity #1667 Posted 03 March 2021 - 09:59 PM

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This madness needs to stop

If you bring this crew 2.0 into the game as it stands, im actually done.

The level of pay to win is absolutely disgusting! As if it wasnt bad enough to begin with.

If you pay enough you will be able to make a crew that is like 20% better than the average player. You can make an EBR literally invisible until its right infront of you while going at 95 kph!

 

So wargaming, if you want this to work you need to remove the pay to win aspect and let players make good crews without using loads of gold so that its FAIR GAME! And you cant let players abuse the system to brake tanks, like make lights invisible or heavies with 1 sec repair time.

 

Im telling you, as this stands it WILL brake the game! Please do NOT do this to such a good game that i have loved for 9 years.

 

I dont want to give up one if my favorite games of all time, but it might seem like i need to soon...



Dracorian15 #1668 Posted 03 March 2021 - 10:05 PM

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Plenty of players have already issued this, but I will express myself about it too:

WG has to go back to the drawing table with these changes, unless they want to screw their own community.

 

But first, I think it is not necessarily bad to rework 'old' systems and improve them and through them improve the game in gene. But crews at the moment are working just fine, so I really hope that WG doesn't just rush this into production as it might have a very destructive effect on the game. They should go back to the drawing table and start fixing/reworking this again until they can set up a good and neat new crew system.

 

At the moment however, crew 2.0 obviously has not been balanced out enough and I've seen (mostly in different videos and streams) the most ridiculous things:

- Like EBR's with loads of camo and view range through the crew skills and talents, that can spot nearly anything without being detected themselves

- Like insane amounts of ramming damage that does not even make sense in some occasions

- Splitting very good crews up from high tier vehicles by dropping them in a tier 1 tank with 2 crew members to gain 2 very good commanders out of 1 crew just by paying lots of gold
- The costs and sacrifices of not paying gold and wanting to assign a crew to multiple vehicles. You lose 500k credits AND a huge amount of xp that stands for quite a lot of grinding with your crew just to put them in 1 other vehicle. Of course if you pay the gold, everything is just fine and you can put your crews into 3 different vehicles with ease..

 

WG: please just don't rush this into the game, let your devs take their time. I see on the first page you are already going to address some issues of this system, which is good. But these seem to me as 'small fixes' on a completely broken system which will eventually still leave us with a broken system to play with.



ancient_divinity #1669 Posted Yesterday, 01:55 AM

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The problem is that individual crews can be completely out of balance.

 

Again, other crews in the account are unusable in comparison, the recreational player will probably concentrate on a few less tanks and will most likely not buy any more tanks because it takes too long to play up the crew or they don't want to invest any more money in the game.

 

Crew 2.0 is initially an economic success model for Wargaming, then over time it develops into a deadlock ...

 

If you want to make the game more interesting, the time until a crew is good must be limited to a maximum of 500 battles. Example, when Crew 2.0 comes I will maybe play 4 - 5 tanks with my account, the rest will no longer be played and researched and unlocked over time with free EXP and blueprints, it makes no sense to have a 0 Skill Crew with 100% skills To play against a 150% skill crew ... The superiority is so high that even the balance in the game will no longer be the same.

 

I wouldn't buy a premium tank either, if there is no crew for it, the tank will be 0.00% fun the first 1,000 battles ... This is definitely not good for the game. Wargaming will probably do it anyway, then only 5 tanks will be played, if these piss me off, there will be a new game.

 

7 days transfer period for the instructors makes the whole thing even worse ... It end up with only 4 tanks and the rest sucks, because the difference is far too big. (Example 75 skills + extra skills + instructor = 150% T95 / FV4201 Chieftain why should you drive a WZ-111 model 5A with a 25 skill crew?


Edited by ancient_divinity, Yesterday, 02:20 AM.


_IceIceBaby_ #1670 Posted Yesterday, 02:13 AM

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today i got the tokens. 90.

survey still not around. i wonder if i will ever get it. i am banned again in-game



Duke_Harkonnen #1671 Posted Yesterday, 09:54 AM

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View PostGolza, on 03 March 2021 - 06:16 PM, said:

Anyone bought the "Truth in Sandbox" 2D camo? How does it look like?




upnincs #1672 Posted Yesterday, 11:43 AM

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For me, problems with the old system:

- Training a new skill is hard and feels progressively harder with subsequent new skills. After getting the "must haves" there is little room to experiment because there are other tanks to play.
- Different crew configs per vehicle makes transfers ineffective and creates the weak lonely loaders/radio ops added much later. Other than that I think the cost and experience loss of transfering crews is fair.
- Skill descriptions are not very accurate (exact conditions, percentages, whether it works for arty...)
- Perks are useless before they reach 100%
- Very situational skills cost the same as always working, crucial ones (firefighting vs sixth sense?)

 

Most of this (in fact all of this except the stray radio operators) could have been addressed easily within the framework of the old system! For example:
- Adjust skill costs depending on gameplay impact
- Change the skill gaining ratio so the skills after the first couple don't take forever (experience can gain insight to learn faster)
- Make perks work as skills (with increasing effect)
- Improve skill descriptions, even introduce new ones if you want

 

Then we would have a system which is much improved, yet still familiar to everyone and doesn't need any manual crew conversion.
Maybe granting one free reset per crew would have been nice to allow room for any new skills, but if people didn't do a damn thing they would have still benefited from the changes.

 

I feel Crew 2.0 is missing the point to address the real problems and instead introduces a ton of new ones.

 

Pro side:
+ I don't think anyone has asked for free 6th sense, but I like the idea. This is essential to learn game mechanics and map layouts especially for newer players.
+ Solving the loader/radio op problem, maybe with a strange approach, but I appreciate the intent and can live with losing individual crew members for long term benefits
+ Reusing crews on different tanks is great

 

Meh side:

x feels like a nerf in available skill levels vs the old one, although it can be considered fair if it's across the board

 

Con side or at least twisted implementation:

- You said it would be less complex, it's the opposite of that. Very overcomplicated.
- Insane amount of manual work for conversion OR ELSE nothing works and you gain no XP. Some people have lives and day jobs, if I can play 4 hours a week, guess how much this would take for an account of 10 years... not only this has to be done tank by tank, but also on the meta level because some crews would better be shared.
- You said crews will stop forgetting their old tanks! Except that they totally do when they have to learn a new one... what gives? The cost of retraining is very punishing in both XP loss and credits.

- I think learning a new vehicle should be free as long as you have empty slots. At worst, they could operate the new vehicle ONLY with some penalty until they get better at it (e.g. fill an XP meter with battles in the new vehicle), but why should the old vehicle suffer? And/or, if the crew is only trained for a single vehicle, REPLACING that vehicle should be free since we don't get the advantage of using them on two, so what's the 10% of total xp loss for? Compared to 10% major qualification loss (which actually made sense because they had to get the hang of the new vehicle)? That's simply insane.

- The level of the vehicle should factor into the cost. Retraining to level 2 should not cost the same as level 10.

- Or maybe the xp loss if justified to OPEN UP a new slot, but not every time. Plenty of possible fairer solutions than this scam.
- Only few people have mentioned that while a single crew manning 3 vehicles as a concept can be useful, you can't play the other two while one is still in battle, so that makes the cost of this even harder to justify
- Averaging crew skills to determine new points is unfair, you are punishing players exactly because of the problem you are trying to fix (different crew configs - some members added later). Maybe the dumbest crew member should be taken out before averaging.
- Handling 2 crew tanks the same as 6 crew ones is again unfair
- Massive screwover of 0-xp extra skill crews. I mean the whole point of paying or grinding for those was that they will be equivalent to normal crews, this is a kick in the teeth. They should be considered exactly as standard crews... and give high level instructors.
- RNG has no business in instructor stats! I have other games if I want to gamble... let the rich kids buy boxes, but don't make it part of the normal experience.
- what's with the 7 day cooldown?
- instructors should be free to allocate to any vehicle and preferably nation ESPECIALLY with the random bonuses which can be completely useless for certain nations/types/playsyles.
- Resetting instructor stats should be possible
- instructor bonuses should count toward talent unlock (but better yet talent unlock should disappear). I could go on, but all in all the instructor system seems just designed to mess with us.
- Skills within the same tree could synergize maybe, but trees should not lock talents (points wasted)
- Multiple crews trained for the same tank in the old system should be possible to fuse.

 

In my opinion the cons absolutely outweigh the pros. If I had to decide I'd say keep the old sytem as-is instead of this mess.

Disclaimer: I didn't play the sandbox, but I've read through the announcement and 50+ pages of this topic.

 



istide #1673 Posted Yesterday, 12:28 PM

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Hey Guys, 

 

I don't think these changes to crew 2.0 are not really that good. You lose a lot of experience for the good crews you already have, you have more options to train them, yet you can't make them as good as they were in Crew 1.0. They may have more qualifications, and you get more percent for a certain skill from crew 2.0 but you lose the other advantages. Secondly, you can make the overpowered tank even more OP with some skills thus breaking the game even more. You also have to pay a lot to retrain them even if you can use them in 3 tanks, you always lose something if you don't wanna use gold. It is nice no to have to retrain 4/5/6 or even bigger crews separately and you can use them in 3 tanks from the tech tree without penalty but for me, the new skills are not that advantageous compared to the old ones, and losing a lot of experience is not cool either. Please rethink that Wargaming. Thx



Shrewd_Ape_In_The_Mist #1674 Posted Yesterday, 05:11 PM

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The sad truth is that even if I'd still want to play in wot after screw 2.0 would come in its current form to the live servers I couldn't do that because with that insane 10% of the total exp cost when retraining I'd have to play every new tank with a commander on the very first level since retraining is simply not worth it.

It's either, spend gold on retraining to not lose anything or don't retrain your crews at all.

That's it, only two options are sensible here and both horrible.



YourBestFriend_2016 #1675 Posted Yesterday, 10:34 PM

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View PostPeejbee, on 03 March 2021 - 12:58 PM, said:

If you don't let them know why you are quitting the game, they won't know what to change.

 

They might find some clues on this forum however



albopastrami #1676 Posted Yesterday, 10:45 PM

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Can I pay £100,000 per year to play WOT please WG. In return I'd like live on/off switchable functionality that allows, at the touch of a toggle button, all of the following, when I want each:

 

1) 100% RNG in my favour

2) -100% RNG for my opponents

3) 100% camo while moving

4) Ammo rack on demand

5) Engine fire on demand

6) edit: I nearly forgot, a map view that shows the location of all enemy all the time.

 

That'll do.

Cheers

 

 

 


Edited by albopastrami, Yesterday, 10:46 PM.


LCpl_Jones #1677 Posted Yesterday, 11:05 PM

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the crew system is limited and outdated, this rework looks awesome. can't wait for it to hit the live server.

 

Spoiler

Edited by LCpl_Jones, Yesterday, 11:05 PM.


ibrox3 #1678 Posted Today, 12:24 PM

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""- Massive screwover of 0-xp extra skill crews. I mean the whole point of paying or grinding for those was that they will be equivalent to normal crews, this is a kick in the teeth. They should be considered exactly as standard crews... and give high level instructors."

 

The point of paying for or grinding for those crews was they are BETTER than standard crews

Much better.

Knowing you have BIA for free saves the last skill grind XP

The better the crew the more it saves!



Miepie #1679 Posted Today, 12:51 PM

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View Postalbopastrami, on 04 March 2021 - 10:45 PM, said:

4) Ammo rack on demand

5) Engine fire on demand

 

 

 

 

You need to phrase your wishes more carefully or they will backfire and make your tank explode. :ohmy:



CocoCondor #1680 Posted Today, 02:37 PM

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The article says that "You will also be able to earn one unique 2D style for participating in two or more Sandbox iterations by completing one chain of missions in each of them."

 

A previous article states that "You can also get the 2D style for free. To do this, you need to actively take part in at least two Sandbox launches. The 2D style will become available in the Store during tests, not after the first iteration, but we will consider the player's progress in the first tests when crediting it. More details on when the 2D style will be credited to players’ accounts will be available later."

 

I have the style available in the "store" for 60 points - i dont want to miss the opportunity to get it, but i also dont want to buy it and waste points if i will be getting it for free - can somebody please clarify this - ideally until the store deadline - 09.03.

 

thank youuu

 

*******************EDIT********************

it popped up for free (i took part in both iterations and completed all missions)


Edited by CocoCondor, Today, 03:04 PM.





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