39 replies to this topic

[General_Jack_D_Ripper]

The situation is dire. Crew 2.0 is upon us and I fear it will have a huge impact on World of Tanks playerbase as we know it. I think WG is making a huge mistake by implementing the changes like they do right now. The number one reason is in my opinion the crew. And about every change which WG is doing could be done by also keeping the crews as they are.

I will list a number of reasons why crew should under no circumstances be removed. This is due to subconscious. If the player feels bad about changes inside, he will be less likely to play the game over time. There will be a wave of people leaving in the beginning (a lot of them will come back in first month) and then over the long run playerbase will dwindle. 

After listing reasons I will give my idea of changes to make it right

 

I LIKE WORLD OF TANKS AND I WOULD PREFER TO KEEP IT POPULAR

 

OK, so if you see the poll answers you already know the possibilities which may make players feel remorse. Maybe I forgot some. Please tell me.

 

Ways for players to feel remorse

1. People put a lot of thought into their crew.

1.1 These are people who first go through the crew-layout of a line, then think about what crewmembers need to be trained in other vehicles and then do so.

1.2 These are people who buy VK 168.01 (P) because it is the best crew trainer for German superheavies and try to make it work

2. People put money into their crew

2.1 These are people who bought Tiger 131 crews for the 0 perk

2.2 These are people who bought (specific) premium tanks (in general) for crew training

2.3 These are people who bought crew training manuals

2.4 These are people who trained the crew for gold on new tanks

2.5 These are people who bought personal reserves

3. People put a lot of effort into their crew. Training the crew in general, thinking, paying.

3.1 These are people who drove tanks for longer to train the crew better

3.2 These are people who spend hours to train their crew

4. WG did a lot to make us feel attached to our crewmmebers, now they will be taking them away. I do not like customization too much, but I got at least one fully customized crew. There are crewnames, portraits, skins, female crew from campaings, snow maidens, fully voiced special crewmembers(some actually payed for). These are gone. This is a huge step backwards in my book. I feel I earned my special crewmembers. After letting me earn them taking them away again feels just cruel.

5. People like to minmax. People like create a strategy how to train their crew, like to buy 0 crew members, like to think about where reward crewmembers are best placed. People like to feel to actually have an edge through smart crew progression. Not only will these be alienated by taking away all the effort they already put into it, but by not being able to do so anymore.

 

What I am trying to say: People will feel badly about the changes. Even if crew 2.0 would be the best possible way implemented, losing the crew will subconsciousness link bad feelings to the game for a lot of players. This is something WG should avoid. 

 

 

But hey, there is hope:

Now, I do not really see the reason for crew 2.0 to begin with. I mean: Come on, 0 to 10 camouflage points? There are to types of tanks. The ones which can make camo work (10 points) and the ones which cannot (0 points). It is basically like equipment 2.0. Yes, you have more options to differently design your crew, but in the majority of cases it will be same old.

 

The compromise

OK, let's say WG absoluetely needs to keep the skill point system of crew 2.0

And I already explained why WG absolutely needs to keep the crew.

We simply combine it. 

We distribute new and useful skills over crewmembers like robin hood shares the wealth. Also buff some old skills. Also: "Applied medicine?" Nice idea, but what about a skill which works like repair skill just for healing? Train your crewmembers to heal each other.

This creates a new problem: You would be constantly adding skills after battle. This should be avoided.

Simple solutions:

1. Automated crew training.

Now this is an obvious choice. WG claims this is all about new players? So make it about new players. Add an "automate" button. After klicking player is asked which top tier tank he is going for. Game will from now on spend skills like top 10% of player of that vehicle. Same should exist for every vehicles equipment slots btw. IF YOU WANT TO DO SOMETHING FOR CASUALS, ACTUALLY DO SO(WG: I take paypal btw)

2. Plan.

Let players plan 1 to 10 next skillpoints ahead. simple per drag and drop. There is a line of 10 slots, players drag skils after each other, or just one, or two skills and check the "repeat" box. IF YOU WANT TO MAKE QUALITY OF LIVE IMPROVEMENTS, ACTUALLY DO SO(WG I am sadly currently not for hire. But u may apply anyway)

 

OK, people. I know there are other threads open, but I really did want to know if crew actually matters, or if I am the only person who thinks so.

Edited by General_Jack_D_Ripper, 23 February 2021 - 09:34 PM.

[SoupFork]

Your Automatic crew training is a bad idea because setting your tank up like the top 10% likely only works if you can PLAY it like the top 10%.

For example they might skip on survival/repairs/firefighting and focus purely on DPM/Mobility

For lesser scrubs, more universal skills could be a better route to take.

[General_Jack_D_Ripper]

Did you check the skills? Most of them are bad right now.

It has always been the best choice to pick the skills which help you the majority of times.

3/4 of the current skills in crew 2.0 are utterly situational.

There is one skill which only helps wheeled vehicles.

 

What I am trying to say: Bad players will be better with skills which are effective. If they choose bad stuff like you suggested, they will actually perform worse.

Edited by General_Jack_D_Ripper, 23 February 2021 - 10:08 PM.

[Xandania]

SoupFork, on 23 February 2021 - 08:53 PM, said:

Your Automatic crew training is a bad idea because setting your tank up like the top 10% likely only works if you can PLAY it like the top 10%.

For example they might skip on survival/repairs/firefighting and focus purely on DPM/Mobility

For lesser scrubs, more universal skills could be a better route to take.

This won't keep the scrubs from setting up their crew according to some guide instead of experimenting themselves

[SignoreBoom]

As it stands, I think there are good and bad bits with Crew 2.0. A quick summary of what I think:

 

The Bad:

- Did we really need Crew 2.0? There was nothing wrong with the current system. I don't spend too much time on the forums but I didn't see many people complaining about it. Correct me if I'm wrong.

- It's too much.  With the old system you picked the perk and thats it. No having to distribute points for levels and then unlock the final awesome perk and then think about how many levels you need.... it's overload and quite frankly, it makes it feel more tedious and annoying. Let me just pick the perk and be done with it.

- The new names are misleading... well it's the only word I can think off... they don't really tell me at a glance what they affect until I find the description. It was easier before. The driver had skills... for driving. The gunner... for shooting. Crew 2.0 just needlessly draws out the process of selecting skills.

- I for one quite like having individual crew members. It made the tank feek less like an individual object and added an extra aspect of realism. I feel... disconnected I guess? I guess this is personal preference so eh...

- Some skills... well... don't serve much use... far better options. Just like equipment 2.0.

 

The Good:

- Some skills, just like equipment 2.0, are pretty nifty combined together. They would be a welcome refresh to existing skills.

- The idea of giving everyone 6th sense off the bat. Fantastic! Really helps reduce the P2W aspect.

- 100% Crews off the get go. Again, another welcome addition as this reduces P2W. GJ WG, you nailed this.

- The idea of "trainers" giving a bonus. I like this idea too, push your crew even further. I don't think special crew members should be used, like Snow Maidens etc... A seperate crew type should be created, some sort of dedicated instructor that can be earned. How, I don't know. But not for gold.

 

Overall:

The current system of crew, imo, doesn't really need an extensive change. The way it works is just fine. However, refreshing some of the skills, adding in base 100% crews and 6th sense skill would be a very welcome addition to the game. I feel it would be the best of both worlds. I feel WG are trying to make positive changes, just going overboard and trying to create hype with new stuff when only a minor tweak or refresh is needed.

Edited by SignoreBoom, 23 February 2021 - 10:16 PM.

[SoupFork]

SignoreBoom, on 23 February 2021 - 10:13 PM, said:

The current system of crew, imo, doesn't really need an extensive change. The way it works is just fine. However, refreshing some of the skills, adding in base 100% crews and 6th sense skill would be a very welcome addition to the game. I feel it would be the best of both worlds. I feel WG are trying to make positive changes, just going overboard and trying to create hype with new stuff when only a minor tweak or refresh is needed.

 

...but making it simple, good and beneficial would rob WG of yet another chance to milk every last bit of gold and silver out of you by adding confusing descriptions, skills and menu's to guarantee you'll screw up a few crew builds and have to pay to redo them.

[SignoreBoom]

SoupFork, on 23 February 2021 - 10:17 PM, said:

 

...but making it simple, good and beneficial would rob WG of yet another chance to milk every last bit of gold and silver out of you by adding confusing descriptions, skills and menu's to guarantee you'll screw up a few crew builds and have to pay to redo them.

Don't remind me hahahaha 

 

The more they push ahead with changes we keep telling them we don't want (70% positive amirite) ... the worse it'll get for them. Surely they know this? Right?

Edited by SignoreBoom, 23 February 2021 - 10:23 PM.

[250swb]

Any new player is going to be like a bunny in the headlights confronting the Crew 2.0 monstrosity, any experienced player will wonder where all their hard work over the years went to, any pay-to-win player is going to be laughing their [edited]off.

[Balc0ra]

It's a test to see if the players like it or not. It's not a test of a thing that will come as shown. 

 

So it depends on what most players hate or like. I like the idea of finally having more than one tank on my crews, or just one commander in each tank so that my top tier that has no crew layout to match any premium there is to use all his skills are not affected by it.

 

Don't like the current skill layout or how it's handled, tho some of the new skill ideas are neat, others less so. There are massive room for improvement, and if they tweak most aspects of it I would be happy with it. How others feel about it remains to be seen. 

Edited by Balc0ra, 23 February 2021 - 10:54 PM.

[frange]

I honestly despise the fact that you can only have those 50 points (or something like that) so your crew have to choose to be good at this and bad at that. No matter how well trained the crew is.

I do have a few 6 and 7 skilled crews that I have used basically since I started playing  WoT in 2013 - they have basically all the skills and perks there is availble today - after thousands of hours of playing in techtree and prem tanks, maxing out their training. I mainly maxed them out before the crew books came to the game.

And what now? They are gonna be castrated to only be able to have some of the skills and perks - cause of those 50 points limitation? Honestly? How is that a good thing?

Edited by frange, 23 February 2021 - 11:18 PM.

[SoupFork]

frange, on 23 February 2021 - 11:16 PM, said:

How is that a good thing?

it’s good for WG.  

No matter how much waffle and blurb they use to disguise it, never forget that the number one beneficiary of any changes will be WG.

[General_Jack_D_Ripper]

frange, on 23 February 2021 - 11:16 PM, said:

I honestly despise the fact that you can only have those 50 points (or something like that) so your crew have to choose to be good at this and bad at that. No matter how well trained the crew is.

I do have a few 6 and 7 skilled crews that I have used basically since I started playing  WoT in 2013 - they have basically all the skills and perks there is availble today - after thousands of hours of playing in techtree and prem tanks, maxing out their training. I mainly maxed them out before the crew books came to the game.

And what now? They are gonna be castrated to only be able to have some of the skills and perks - cause of those 50 points limitation? Honestly? How is that a good thing?

 

Yes, this is really horrible, I feel your pain.

[CausticSoda]

I have 240+ tanks, most with crew.

So to take those crew to play across 3 tanks as they will be intended will take circa 120,000 gold.

 

Money grab?

 

I am not sure that I even want to spend the amount of time sorting out the crew when equipment 2 is still painful.

 

Planning to mess up my prem HE tanks.

 

And then a nerf to the class that actually needs some lovin.

 

Note that the defender went on sale again - milk it baby!

[Strapps]

frange, on 23 February 2021 - 10:16 PM, said:

I honestly despise the fact that you can only have those 50 points (or something like that) so your crew have to choose to be good at this and bad at that. No matter how well trained the crew is.

I do have a few 6 and 7 skilled crews that I have used basically since I started playing  WoT in 2013 - they have basically all the skills and perks there is availble today - after thousands of hours of playing in techtree and prem tanks, maxing out their training. I mainly maxed them out before the crew books came to the game.

And what now? They are gonna be castrated to only be able to have some of the skills and perks - cause of those 50 points limitation? Honestly? How is that a good thing?

 

It's 75 points, not 50. After 75 points there are further levels (Elite Progression) that give a small bonus to vehicle handling.

 

Of your 6 or 7 skills, which are common skills? BiA, Concealment and Repairs are all single skills and you can max those out for 30 points, meaning you can choose a further 4.5 skills or spread the remaining points around as you see fit. There are no perks, every skill gives a bonus regardless of the stage of training. There are further bonuses available from instructors assigned to your crew and if you invest 30 points in a particular area you can unlock another skill for nothing.

 

The removal of commander bonuses and zero-level skills is annoying but it levels the playing field, meaning less of an advantage to those who pay for multiple Bromwell and Rudy crews. Now it's a head-start instead, those crews begin with 10 points.

 

The system isn't perfect, I suspect a lot of people will invest heavily into repairs, concealment and coherence (new BiA) before looking at other skills but this is only a test and so far, I'm impressed despite losing the effort I put into earning and training various crews.

23:10 Added after 7 minute

CausticSoda, on 23 February 2021 - 10:51 PM, said:

I have 240+ tanks, most with crew.

So to take those crew to play across 3 tanks as they will be intended will take circa 120,000 gold.

 

First additional tank is free when your crew hits level 15, second is free when your crew hits level 45. You only have to pay gold if you want to open the slots before your crew reaches the necessary skill level.

[HMS_Birmingham]

Strapps, on 24 February 2021 - 12:02 AM, said:

 

The removal of commander bonuses and zero-level skills is annoying but it levels the playing field, meaning less of an advantage to those who pay for multiple Bromwell and Rudy crews. Now it's a head-start instead, those crews begin with 10 points.

 

 

 

Glad you mentioned pay as that's exactly what I did!! A cromwell's gun is already a nightmare with a BIA crew and now they are going to take that away after I payed for a Cromwell B with 0perk BIA crew? Nope it's not on!!  It brings nothing significant over the crews we already have in place. 1st impressions is it is nothing more than another reason for you to spend gold or spend credits.

[Strapps]

HMS_Birmingham, on 23 February 2021 - 11:31 PM, said:

Glad you mentioned pay as that's exactly what I did!! A cromwell's gun is already a nightmare with a BIA crew and now they are going to take that away after I payed for a Cromwell B with 0perk BIA crew? Nope it's not on!!  It brings nothing significant over the crews we already have in place. 1st impressions is it is nothing more than another reason for you to spend gold or spend credits.

 

I've bought multiple Bromwells for the crews and while I agree that it's annoying, those are still crews that I won't have to start from zero and now I don't have to worry about training the commander for sixth sense.

[frange]

Strapps, on 23 February 2021 - 11:02 PM, said:

 

It's 75 points, not 50. After 75 points there are further levels (Elite Progression) that give a small bonus to vehicle handling.

 

Of your 6 or 7 skills, which are common skills? BiA, Concealment and Repairs are all single skills and you can max those out for 30 points, meaning you can choose a further 4.5 skills or spread the remaining points around as you see fit. There are no perks, every skill gives a bonus regardless of the stage of training. There are further bonuses available from instructors assigned to your crew and if you invest 30 points in a particular area you can unlock another skill for nothing.

 

The removal of commander bonuses and zero-level skills is annoying but it levels the playing field, meaning less of an advantage to those who pay for multiple Bromwell and Rudy crews. Now it's a head-start instead, those crews begin with 10 points.

 

The system isn't perfect, I suspect a lot of people will invest heavily into repairs, concealment and coherence (new BiA) before looking at other skills but this is only a test and so far, I'm impressed despite losing the effort I put into earning and training various crews.

23:10 Added after 7 minute

 

First additional tank is free when your crew hits level 15, second is free when your crew hits level 45. You only have to pay gold if you want to open the slots before your crew reaches the necessary skill level.

Ah ok, 75 points. The problem is the fact that the crew has more or less all the skills and perks availble - all 25 there is.

I don't mind the fact that they add more & new skills - but the problem is the fact that they wont let me get all the new skills  no matter how much I keep training that crew.Because of that point limit.

"Sorry - you are not allowed to learn any more, cause WG says so."

 

And with that - I also will have to pay WG gold (a.k.a money) to try out and finally get the most fitting setup.

Edited by frange, 24 February 2021 - 12:55 AM.

[General_Jack_D_Ripper]

frange, on 24 February 2021 - 12:54 AM, said:

Ah ok, 75 points. The problem is the fact that the crew has more or less all the skills and perks availble - all 25 there is.

I don't mind the fact that they add more & new skills - but the problem is the fact that they wont let me get all the new skills  no matter how much I keep training that crew.Because of that point limit.

"Sorry - you are not allowed to learn any more, cause WG says so."

 

And with that - I also will have to pay WG gold (a.k.a money) to try out and finally get the most fitting setup.

 

Yes, It seems a bit unfair.

Also the crew is worse than before the translation into crew 2.0 The tank is less effective.

Which feels like a step back.

[UserZer00]

Strapps, on 24 February 2021 - 12:02 AM, said:

The removal of commander bonuses and zero-level skills is annoying but it levels the playing field, meaning less of an advantage to those who pay for multiple Bromwell and Rudy crews. Now it's a head-start instead, those crews begin with 10 points.

I'm actually amazed that they can remove the zero-level skills on crews that were purchased. 

 

They aren't able to mess with the stats of premium tanks that were purchased, so why should they be able to remove the zero-skill benefit of the crews that were purchased in a package along with the tank?

 

As I've said in other threads. I don't like the Crew 2.0 changes at all.  I don't see them having any real positive impact on the game at all aside from allowing EBR players to pimp their crews in such a way as to basically undo the nerfs that were imposed recently.

 

I only listened with half an ear, but from what was said by Dez it seem that a lot of the changes are geared towards making good players get even more game play benefits from doing well in a battle while their targets have a even harder time dealing with them.  Not exactly my idea of changes that benefit the new players.

[HassenderZerhacker]

Balc0ra, on 23 February 2021 - 10:52 PM, said:

It's a test to see if the players like it or not. It's not a test of a thing that will come as shown.

 

hope dies last? before the uninstall.

I guess all games reach the moment where they have run their course.