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Crew 2.0 - Instructors

Crew Certification Instructor

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SovietBias #1 Posted 23 February 2021 - 10:46 PM

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In the new Crew 2.0, Instructors are a special "class" of crew, which you can add to existing crews in order to improve certain skills beyond the limit of 10, among other bonuses. Apparently, they can only be obtained from purchasing vehicles with the old 0-skill BiA crews or as rewards from campaigns and other events.

 

Having just installed the new SandBox server, I am still figuring out workings of the new system, but I have found an issue I'm not sure it is a bug or an intended feature, and after watching the video explaining all the changes, it provides no answer.

 

I currently have a bunch of instructor candidates, for which I can select a "Certification" that corresponds to different skills. However, it seems that the skills actually improved by the instructor are a random subset of 3 out of all the possible skills. So what I wanted to clarify is: Is WG really implementing a random roll for new instructor recruits, forcing you to waste rolls on recruits that may end up with worthless skills to improve?

 

I should add that, once you select one Certification, you cannot change it back.

 

Correction: Although some posters have said that it is possible to re-roll Certification for 200 gold, I haven't found out how. In any case, WG seems to be considering to monetize this mechanic heavily.

 

Edit 2: Re-rolling the certification is not possible. Instructors obtained from BiA crews and most events randomly roll their bonuses once you pick a Certification.


Edited by SovietBias, 25 February 2021 - 03:13 PM.


arthurwellsley #2 Posted 23 February 2021 - 10:48 PM

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I went on the Sandbox.

 

My first view after changing two crew is god this is going to be very time consuming and incredibly annoying. So many buttons to press and making sure each one is correct before saving.

On the Sandbox I show as having 280 tanks in my garage. On the main server it is more. I have fifty five tier X tanks all of which have their own dedicated crew. Ones like the bat chat have 6 skills. The Object 140 has 4 and the fifth at 75%. I have 29 tier IX tanks  with 28 trained crews. Re-doing all of that lot will take forever.

 

Instructors. Seems a spectacularly rubbish idea. If you train an instructor in driving skills it gives 2 points in say "Smooth Ride", but those are pretty absolutely useless points. To get the special talent for the driver you need to put 30 points in driving. If the stupid instructor gives 2 points in Smooth Ride then you put 8/10 in that to get to 10/10. Put 10 in two more and you have put 28/30 into driving skills and cannot get the 30/30 opening talent. So you end up with 12/10 in smooth ride to get the 30/30 talent.

 

Either the 2 instructor points should go towards the 30/30 or they should be 10 points and not 2 useless ones.

 

The whole instructor thing is a huge nerf to any crews you purchased on Berlin tanks like the CromwellB.

 

That Object 140 crew that had four decent and useful perks and a fifth on the way now has a commander at 51 points, and three instructors with the fourth instructor slot not open as it requires a level 60 commander.  That 51 point commander has a pretty useless skill set compared to the previous four perk crew.

 

I have only so far changed two crew but have to say I am deeply unimpressed at the present moment with what I got for my 140 and Bat Chat crews.

 

Seems to me if this is going to go to live then players will have a great deal of work to do on their crews prior to the change over. You will want to slap your best crew into a tank with the lowest crew number (two or three), make each driver, gunner, loader etc a commander, and then load them with crew books so that they have enough experience to be at least 60 point commanders under crew 2.0. This is especially true of tanks with 0% BIA crews which will be super nerfed unless they are commanders, due to instructors being so rubbish. So for USSR it seems all the 0% BIA crews I have in 140, T62A, 430U should be re-trained to some tier I or II with fewer than four crew, and then the commander boosted by books. I suspect not only will I need to spend millions of silver I might need to sell off half my tanks in the garage for silver to buy books.

 

So Sandbox is a rubbish mess. Instructors are bad presently, 0%BIA crews are going to be screwed over, four perk crews are going to be screwed over, anyone with 200 plus crews is going to have to spend a huge amount of time and effort on the change.

 

First impression of the changes = deeply unimpressed.

 

Also I have 21 retraining order free applications. So in changing my 200+ crews to the new skills if I make more than 21 mistakes I am paying for it.

If I try and tank with a new set of skills and realise after playing it I made the wrong choices and should try different new ones, I only get 21 chances.

 

This is the same rubbish idea as the De-mounting kits from equipment 2.0.

 

WG are STUPID.

 

If I have 200 crew I should be given 200 free retraining Orders. The ration should be 1:1. For each full tank crew every player should get one free retraining Order. Thats the way to ensure players actually experiment with all the new skills and perks.



SovietBias #3 Posted 23 February 2021 - 10:58 PM

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View Postarthurwellsley, on 23 February 2021 - 09:48 PM, said:

Snip

 

Seems to me if this is going to go to live then players will have a great deal of work to do on their crews prior to the change over. You will want to slap your best crew into a tank with the lowest crew number (two or three), make each driver, gunner, loader etc a commander, and then load them with crew books so that they have enough experience to be at least 60 point commanders under crew 2.0. This is especially true of tanks with 0% BIA crews which will be super nerfed unless they are commanders, due to instructors being so rubbish. So for USSR it seems all the 0% BIA crews I have in 140, T62A, 430U should be re-trained to some tier I or II with fewer than four crew, and then the commander boosted by books. I suspect not only will I need to spend millions of silver I might need to sell off half my tanks in the garage for silver to buy books.

 

Also I have 21 retraining order free applications. So in changing my 200+ crews to the new skills if I make more than 21 mistakes I am paying for it.

If I try and tank with a new set of skills and realise after playing it I made the wrong choices and should try different new ones, I only get 21 chances.

 

This is the same rubbish idea as the De-mounting kits from equipment 2.0.

 

WG are STUPID.

 

If I have 200 crew I should be given 200 free retraining Orders. The ration should be 1:1. For each full tank crew every player should get one free retraining Order. Thats the way to ensure players actually experiment with all the new skills and perks.

 

I share your frustration, as I haven't had the time to figure out just how large the impact is, virtue of having a 200+ tank garage.

 

I also had a fair bunch of 0-skilled BiA Crews. I'm not sure if it is what you meant by the nerf, but the crews remain fully functional after "mobilization" while also getting 4 instructors, don't they?



demon_tank #4 Posted 23 February 2021 - 11:32 PM

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Well we can only hope there are enough sane people who are gonna give WG negative feedback and not enough buffons who will give a positive feedback so this change that nobody asked for is scrapped.

 

I dont know why a simple skill/perk rework with Sixth Sense as built in from the start isnt enough here.

 

Why all this radical change?

 

Oh i know why. Cause WG mostly have BS ideas thats why.

 

Rubicon 2.0 incoming.

 

 



SovietBias #5 Posted 24 February 2021 - 01:13 AM

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View Postarthurwellsley, on 23 February 2021 - 09:48 PM, said:

-

 

On further inspection, it seems that this change will heavily nerf skilled crews.

 

Let's take a 4-man, 4 skilled crew, in arguably two pretty common setups across the playerbase :

 

1) [BiA, Repairs, Camo] +4 different skills = 7 skills ( - 6th sense, which is now default, 6 different skills).

2) [BiA, repairs] OR [BiA, Camo] + 8 different skills = 10 different Skills (9 + 6th sense).

 

A 4-skill crew will migrate to a 45 - 55 - skill *new* crew, depending on how far you are on the training. This means that you can have around 4-5 fully trained skills (or their equivalent counterparts in the new system), as you need to spend 10 points to guarantee you get the maximum effect. This makes new crews worse than they were before.

 

As an example, my Obj277 crew:

 

 

Because this was a 0-skill crew and conversion is based on experience accumulated, I get an exceptionally worse crew.

 

I will only be able to take 4 skills out of [BiA, Camo, Repairs, Smoth Ride, Snapshot, Safe Stowage]. The more different skills you currently have, the worse it is for you.

 

Another example, this time with a regular crew:

 

 

I can choose up to 5 skills + 6th sense, when before I had [BiA, Repairs, Safe Stowage, Adrenaline Rush, Situational Awareness, Clutch Braking, Deadeye]  + 80% camo. That's 2.8 skills lost.

 

I'm really unimpressed. It feels my progress is being nerfed so that I need to grind stuff again, preferably wasting gold along the way.

 

EDIT: Plus my original question still stands, it seems Instructors randomly roll for the skills they increase (subset of 3). This is an extremely frustrating design decision. You run the risk of having your hard earned reward roll a particularly useless skill to improve.

 


Edited by SovietBias, 24 February 2021 - 01:16 AM.


gunslingerXXX #6 Posted 24 February 2021 - 07:14 AM

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RNG on instructor skill is beyond stupid! Imstructors are pretty useless already but if there is a RNG element added might as well remove it altogether. If there are players that like to look at their pictures just add them as useless medals but dont bother the rest of the players with this overly complicated useless feature

 



HassenderZerhacker #7 Posted 24 February 2021 - 07:24 AM

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View PostSovietBias, on 23 February 2021 - 10:58 PM, said:

 

I also had a fair bunch of 0-skilled BiA Crews. I'm not sure if it is what you meant by the nerf, but the crews remain fully functional after "mobilization" while also getting 4 instructors, don't they?

 

no, they get converted to noob crews, the instructors are mostly useless



Kdingo #8 Posted 24 February 2021 - 07:43 AM

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View Postarthurwellsley, on 23 February 2021 - 10:48 PM, said:

 

WG are STUPID.

 

In this context i agree fully, they try to reinvent the wheel for no reason and decided to make it octagonal, which makes even less sense.

I predict we get thoroughly shafted with crew 2.0. in regards to crew system we have "never touch a running system", but they do it anyways and it's probably save to assume solely to turn it into a gold/credit dump.


Edited by Kdingo, 24 February 2021 - 08:07 AM.


Zmago5000 #9 Posted 24 February 2021 - 07:50 AM

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but this is really i mean really stupid,..they have the crew system that is working, well accepted, ppl even like it,....and  yet,.....they are changing it for whatever reason (prob to earn more money),....

 

WG, we have a saying here: dont replace a winning horse !


Edited by Zmago5000, 24 February 2021 - 11:07 AM.


SovietBias #10 Posted 24 February 2021 - 10:13 AM

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View PostHassenderZerhacker, on 24 February 2021 - 06:24 AM, said:

 

no, they get converted to noob crews, the instructors are mostly useless

 

Yeah, I got it, see post #5. Since new crews skill points depend on experience accumulated, 0-skilled crews get significantly worse.

 

View PostgunslingerXXX, on 24 February 2021 - 06:14 AM, said:

RNG on instructor skill is beyond stupid! Imstructors are pretty useless already but if there is a RNG element added might as well remove it altogether. If there are players that like to look at their pictures just add them as useless medals but dont bother the rest of the players with this overly complicated useless feature

 

 

Yeah, agreed. I have no idea why they would do such a thing. 

 


Edited by SovietBias, 24 February 2021 - 11:44 AM.


FatigueGalaxy #11 Posted 24 February 2021 - 12:06 PM

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They should just scrap this whole idea with instructors and simply give threat 0-skill crew as a crew with +1 skills. So 4 skill 0-skill crew is like normal 5 skill crew for conversion. Or simply give 75 skill crew right away for converting 0-skill crew.

SovietBias #12 Posted 24 February 2021 - 12:50 PM

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View PostFatigueGalaxy, on 24 February 2021 - 11:06 AM, said:

They should just scrap this whole idea with instructors and simply give threat 0-skill crew as a crew with +1 skills. So 4 skill 0-skill crew is like normal 5 skill crew for conversion. Or simply give 75 skill crew right away for converting 0-skill crew.

 

It feels odd they would nerf crews - some of only obtainable with real money - to this extent. 

 

Exactly the motivation needed to waste time figuring out if there is anything remotely good about this change...

 



OneSock #13 Posted 24 February 2021 - 01:02 PM

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Yeah so having say 26 instructors gives you 26 chances to roll something useful. and the ones that roll something trash you just have to stick in a something where it doesn't matter. 

That's just nonsense IMO given the effort you had to put in to get them.

 

You should be able to pick what you want to boost.



Homer_J #14 Posted 24 February 2021 - 01:16 PM

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View PostSovietBias, on 24 February 2021 - 12:13 AM, said:

 

A 4-skill crew will migrate to a 45 - 55 - skill *new* crew, depending on how far you are on the training. This means that you can have around 4-5 fully trained skills (or their equivalent counterparts in the new system), as you need to spend 10 points to guarantee you get the maximum effect. This makes new crews worse than they were before.

 

 

Converting a 4 skill crew to a 5 skill crew seems a decent trade to me.

 

I think the reason it seems worse is there are so many skills to choose from (though a lot of them I really can't see the point in) but remember you will never have more than a 7.5 skill crew (not counting instructor bonuses).

 

The whole thing is going to be a lot of work for veteran players.  And I pity anyone who's first sight of it is when (if) it goes live because I spent 3 hours on the sandbox just figuring out how it all works, and that's after reading the article and watching the video.  And I'm still not sure about some things.  I can see a lot of long term casual players taking one look and logging back out.

 

But.  I do actually like the new system.  The conversion is flawed, it's a huge learning curve, some of the new skills seem totally useless, but overall it's a better system than we have.

12:16 Added after 0 minute

View PostOneSock, on 24 February 2021 - 12:02 PM, said:

Yeah so having say 26 instructors gives you 26 chances to roll something useful. and the ones that roll something trash you just have to stick in a something where it doesn't matter. 

 

You can reroll them for 200 gold.



Galaxy_class #15 Posted 24 February 2021 - 01:20 PM

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Instructors seem broken right now. What you can do on the test server is create new class 3 instructors which have +2 to skills for testing purposes and by trial and error you can get the skills you want. When it works, instructors are very powerful as you can boost certain skills to +18 which is amazing for things like Camo or Pedal to the Metal especially if you combine them with a directive for another +2. Using Pedal to the Metal boosted to 20 and unlocking the Acceleration trait is like giving your tank +20% engine power which seems ludicrous. 

Edited by Galaxy_class, 24 February 2021 - 01:22 PM.


SovietBias #16 Posted 24 February 2021 - 01:21 PM

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View PostHomer_J, on 24 February 2021 - 12:16 PM, said:

 

Converting a 4 skill crew to a 5 skill crew seems a decent trade to me.

 

 

Except it is not what's happening. Because you have multiple crew members with different skills, you need to account for that when you merge all skills into one crew member(commander). Today, a 4 skilled crew will generally correspond to 7-10 skills. 

 

You'll end up with less skills, not more.


Edited by SovietBias, 24 February 2021 - 01:23 PM.


HassenderZerhacker #17 Posted 24 February 2021 - 01:28 PM

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View PostHomer_J, on 24 February 2021 - 01:16 PM, said:

 

You can reroll them for 200 gold.

 

:trollface:

sure, I can totally see myself doing that to re-obtain a "reward" I already had.

 

12:32 Added after 4 minute

View PostGalaxy_class, on 24 February 2021 - 01:20 PM, said:

Instructors seem broken right now. What you can do on the test server is create new class 3 instructors which have +2 to skills for testing purposes and by trial and error you can get the skills you want. When it works, instructors are very powerful as you can boost certain skills to +18 which is amazing for things like Camo or Pedal to the Metal especially if you combine them with a directive for another +2. Using Pedal to the Metal boosted to 20 and unlocking the Acceleration trait is like giving your tank +20% engine power which seems ludicrous. 

 

really?

so far my assessment was that instructors were pretty useless. they give 2 skill points, 3 points for class II...

 


Edited by HassenderZerhacker, 24 February 2021 - 01:29 PM.


Strapps #18 Posted 24 February 2021 - 01:49 PM

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Instructors seem to be an attempt to shoe-horn legendary commanders into the new system when they didn't really have a place. I'd prefer to see them as regular commanders with a higher skill ceiling, as it stands currently they don't add much and re-rolling their bonuses for gold is a joke.

demon_tank #19 Posted 24 February 2021 - 01:50 PM

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View PostHomer_J, on 24 February 2021 - 12:16 PM, said:

But.  I do actually like the new system.  The conversion is flawed, it's a huge learning curve, some of the new skills seem totally useless, but overall it's a better system than we have.

 

Well if by better you mean more complex...

 

The Equipemnt 2.0 system is enough for variety. Crew Skill/Perk system should be a complementary addon not an entirely seperate headache of choices.

 

Having Sixth Sense by default plus add/remove & rework the existing sklls/perks would have sufficed. Nobody asked for this.



Xandania #20 Posted 24 February 2021 - 01:51 PM

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View PostStrapps, on 24 February 2021 - 12:49 PM, said:

Instructors seem to be an attempt to shoe-horn legendary commanders into the new system when they didn't really have a place. I'd prefer to see them as regular commanders with a higher skill ceiling, as it stands currently they don't add much and re-rolling their bonuses for gold is a joke.


Or they could just become crew skins and at the same time count as if their free skills were earned ones...






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