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Sandbox 2021: HE Shells and Artillery Combined Test Incoming! **Updated**


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Community #1 Posted 23 March 2021 - 02:00 PM

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Join the final test of the reworked HE shells and complex changes for vehicles and SPGs!

The full text of the news item

**UPDATE** We have added more missions with the ability to receive tokens, please read the article update for full details :)

Dalriadaman #2 Posted 23 March 2021 - 02:27 PM

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  • Brighter shell tracers were also well received. According to your feedback, they helped you to better determine the direction of artillery fire and use this information to plan further actions. At the same time, we didn't detect any changes in the behavior of artillery and didn’t notice an increase in the effectiveness of counter-battery fire.

 

But we want a change in arty behaviour. Counter-Battery fire needs to return to its former state.

 



Geno1isme #3 Posted 23 March 2021 - 02:34 PM

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Too lazy to translate my German feedback post. But just confirms that WG lives in its own universe when it comes to interpreting results, as demonstrated by the wall-of-speculation-and-assumptions regarding S-Conq Performance.

SlyHuntsman #4 Posted 23 March 2021 - 02:34 PM

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Dropping sandbox unannounced, during ranked start week. Really? Feels like a way of influencing feedback based on what players have time to play.... but who knows.

leggasiini #5 Posted 23 March 2021 - 02:36 PM

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Type 5 Heavy:

 

"As it stands, there are currently no reasonable grounds for rebalancing this vehicle."

 

Kinda sad, considering that the Type 5 is one of the worst tier 10 heavies right now regardless of HE changes. Doesn't help that the E 100 outclasses it in pretty much every relevant aspect after the buffs. Then again it's understandable that the Type 5 doesn't get reworked accordingly with the HE changes, since the tank is currently in a very poor state regardless of HE rework or not, so it's probably better to rebalance the tank separately from the HE rework. It has been problematic in the past and it's kinda hard to rebalance correctly, but it's possibly to rework correctly as long as it's done right. I wish the Type 5 Heavy gets properly reworked/buffed some time in future (just don't give the old derp gun back, though), but I guess that won't happen anytime soon. The fact the Type 4/5 get option for AP shells with their derps is cool, though, even if the AP shell is way too underwhelming to have any reasonable use.

 

The arty changes looked pretty promising from initial test and apart from some aspects, I personally liked the HE rework as well, but we'll see how they'll work in practice.

 

Glad that Crew 2.0 was postponed, though. Crew does need some changes but the proposed changes were just a bit too much. Simply removing sub-100% crews and making Sixth Sense skill available for everyone by default would already help a lot.


Edited by leggasiini, 23 March 2021 - 02:37 PM.


bbmoose #6 Posted 23 March 2021 - 02:38 PM

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 The average damage per battle remained about the same.

 

So, back to the drawing board again. The damage potential of SPG's should be nerfed.



Geno1isme #7 Posted 23 March 2021 - 02:41 PM

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View PostSlyHuntsman, on 23 March 2021 - 03:34 PM, said:

Dropping sandbox unannounced, during ranked start week. Really? Feels like a way of influencing feedback based on what players have time to play.... but who knows.

They are already influencing it by giving out rewards for just playing there, and using feedback from people that don't even know what testing means.



gunslingerXXX #8 Posted 23 March 2021 - 02:47 PM

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I'm a bit nervous about text like "slightly decreased" HE dmg. Would have rather seen actual numbers like done in the SPG part, as the WG communication tends to be quite heavily influenced by marketing aspects and less so by raw numbers. 

SupremeMaster #9 Posted 23 March 2021 - 02:47 PM

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Sher and t49 penned more in sandbox ? And tanks have same overall performance because their  premium ammo dealt more damage ? And Did they consider everone fired the best ammunution type regardless since their economy is not real on the sandbox server ? Who made these tests and who got this outcome from it. If you are going to do what you want from the start wargaming at least dont  make us play the sandbox ans waste nobody s time. Can somone share their HE penetration screenshots while using it and fighting same tier vehicles ? If that ever happened really..

Edited by SupremeMaster, 23 March 2021 - 02:57 PM.


RoMaMeN #10 Posted 23 March 2021 - 02:51 PM

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In other news, 210% of people in the world like turtles...

feies_vlad #11 Posted 23 March 2021 - 03:01 PM

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View Postleggasiini, on 23 March 2021 - 02:36 PM, said:

 Simply removing sub-100% crews and making Sixth Sense skill available for everyone by default would already help a lot.

Sixth sense as default would be nice but removing the below 100% crews would be a disaster, just like on the crew 2.0 sandbox. And what I mean, is that as a f2p player (including myself) with the current crew when you retrain a crew for credits you lose 10% from the main qualifications(20k xp, so not a big deal), or 20% if you retrain from one class to a different class, well if you remove that sub 100% crews where do you think WG will take that xp for retraining crews for credits and not gold? Exactly, from the WHOLE crew just like they did on the sandbox server, and that was absolut GARBAGE change. On the crew 2.0 sandbox server, my 7 skilled Standard b crew, for a single retrain would lose 10% from the whole crew xp, that is around 900k xp if I would retrain for credits, and if I would do it for free, it would mean 2.7 mil xp, also, 500k credits for each retrain for a good crew is just a big NONSENSE. As a f2p player it would mean the end of me and many many others. Funny how WG said that the crew 2.0 will be better for new and f2p players LOOOOOL. Sure for new players that have ZERO good crews, this change would be like whatever, but for everyone else, well it will be THE END.


Edited by feies_vlad, 23 March 2021 - 03:03 PM.


rontap #12 Posted 23 March 2021 - 03:03 PM

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There are more than 38k 907s on the EU server. Around 21k Chieftains.

Compare this to the manticore or the chinese TD, having  around 25k players.

Also the Chiefs and 907s have more average battles (907 has average 250 battles, the 10th highest in tier X),

not including their importance in Stronghold / CW battles.

 

So WG arguing they are 'rare' is stupid and incorrect.

They just dont want people seeing how much these already OP tanks will be buffed.

 

Edit: source: https://wot-life.com/eu/serverstats/


Edited by rontap, 23 March 2021 - 03:15 PM.


mArtinko5MB #13 Posted 23 March 2021 - 03:04 PM

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I dont get it how they do not see the outcoming buff of these HE changes to hulldown vehicles .. and also buffing EBR's HE against other LT. You imagine there is no way ebrs can be more powerfull against other LT nomatter what tier. but here they are ... ( like ebr 90 can sh*t on tier X light tanks and even some medium tanks ) now they are gonna pen those HE every time they hit, great ...

 

yes, i love light tanks and fast meds with no armor, but EBRs break the game i am thinking of quitting game sometimes, this buffs with no decrease of spg damage dealt is just stupid. 

 

what other tank apart from spgs can do more than twice the damage of its hp ( not counting ammoracks ) ? this is nobrainer for me ... spg should deal its hp per shot at most (which is no more than 500) 


Edited by mArtinko5MB, 23 March 2021 - 03:08 PM.


Simona2k #14 Posted 23 March 2021 - 03:08 PM

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Looks interesting, lets test

MarveII #15 Posted 23 March 2021 - 03:19 PM

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Sound Detection perk will be another skill no one will pick because commander has a lot more useful perks than that.

Maki711 #16 Posted 23 March 2021 - 03:20 PM

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"more than 70% of reviews from players who played on the Sandbox were positive"

LMAO

They are still going forward with this meme !

Now that is dedication.


Edited by Maki711, 23 March 2021 - 04:19 PM.


SfMercenary1312 #17 Posted 23 March 2021 - 03:21 PM

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So Hulldown tanks got buff. 
Ebr and other Hi-Pen HE flankers get's buff ( tracks doesnt ignite shell) 
Every other Derp HE is nerfed. 
Arty is nerfed. Now you can even blindshoot it more comfortable in normal tanks, depending maps. 
 

Oh well, maybe we will get this to a point, when WG actually noticed that their problem was missing 2 letters from behind "AT" not just HE. 

Yesterday type 5 games, 0 HE shots received ( arty not included.) 
one round, took 24 shots from enemy team, 23 HEAT and 1 AP. God I hate this HE spamming on superheavys... 

 

 

Oh yes, forgot I took one "normal" He round, golden HESH from 183 in himmelsdorf, That shooked my big 5 for whopping 286 damage on frontal shot. While tier 8 Charioteer smacked my turret for 390 average 3 shots. I feel so hurt, that FV was loading 23secson doing that huge damage. 


Edited by SfMercenary1312, 23 March 2021 - 03:46 PM.


StyleZ_ #18 Posted 23 March 2021 - 03:24 PM

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No offense Wargaming, but either you are clearly not even trying to understand what is the game you are developing, or all this text is just a fancy blah-blah-blah PR crap to hide the ever more advocated pay-to-win aspect in this game.

How on earth can you take for granted statistics on a server, where EVERYONE is shooting only gold ammo and then say that performance of certain vehicles is not dropped siginficantly!? :facepalm:

You really think, that on Live server everyone on their Type5's, T49's and FV4005's will also shoot only gold? I bet you would like that, but that is not and will never be the case! How about the high percentage of shots, which go into tracks, guns or ground, which will cause 0 damage? Also not affecting performance? There will be not so many paper tanks driving around and showing their sides all day long to compensate the nerfed damage factor! HE tanks will become useless! I bet you that the average damage on Live for HE tanks will be dropped at least by 30% if not more, if you don't change their statistics.

And that argument about Superconq's armor is just a pearl. :trollface: Did you even read what you wrote there? How do you assume, that its survivability will not increase? In every map there are places where heavies with well armored turrets can pile up and just sit behind some rubble or obstacles for hours not letting anyone pass by. Now in Live it is frustrating, but after these changes, it will be unplayable! It will be simply impossible to counter few particular tanks like IS7, 705A or E3, for example, so people will all start to play them, and how much fun will be that?

There will be no natural enemies left for those tanks, if in the same time you heavily nerf artilery again. I don't get the idea behind this also. Artilery was never a class with high winrate or big average damage rates, but you still are nerfing them year after year after year to the point, where it will become unplayable, and together with that will suffer the whole gameplay - camping will rise in new hights, as if it wasn't bad enough now. :mellow:

WG, the direction you are taking is far from that what players need, hopefully you will understand it sooner than later..



Fr4kt #19 Posted 23 March 2021 - 03:46 PM

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If i had a job where I had to blatantly lie to my costumers constantly, I would quit.

 

Then again, I have some moral integrity.



CIRLU #20 Posted 23 March 2021 - 03:46 PM

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If we consider both types of HE shells—standard and alternative—in aggregate, the average damage remained the same.

 I'm worried about this line in the main article. Are they talking about gold shells ? is the Type 5 becoming pay to win again ? be more transparent in your wording WG, it's the least you should be able to do.

14:49 Added after 2 minute

View PostStyleZ_, on 23 March 2021 - 03:24 PM, said:

No offense Wargaming, but either you are clearly not even trying to understand what is the game you are developing, or all this text is just a fancy blah-blah-blah PR crap to hide the ever more advocated pay-to-win aspect in this game.

How on earth can you take for granted statistics on a server, where EVERYONE is shooting only gold ammo and then say that performance of certain vehicles is not dropped siginficantly!? :facepalm:

You really think, that on Live server everyone on their Type5's, T49's and FV4005's will also shoot only gold? I bet you would like that, but that is not and will never be the case! How about the high percentage of shots, which go into tracks, guns or ground, which will cause 0 damage? Also not affecting performance? There will be not so many paper tanks driving around and showing their sides all day long to compensate the nerfed damage factor! HE tanks will become useless! I bet you that the average damage on Live for HE tanks will be dropped at least by 30% if not more, if you don't change their statistics.

And that argument about Superconq's armor is just a pearl. :trollface: Did you even read what you wrote there? How do you assume, that its survivability will not increase? In every map there are places where heavies with well armored turrets can pile up and just sit behind some rubble or obstacles for hours not letting anyone pass by. Now in Live it is frustrating, but after these changes, it will be unplayable! It will be simply impossible to counter few particular tanks like IS7, 705A or E3, for example, so people will all start to play them, and how much fun will be that?

There will be no natural enemies left for those tanks, if in the same time you heavily nerf artilery again. I don't get the idea behind this also. Artilery was never a class with high winrate or big average damage rates, but you still are nerfing them year after year after year to the point, where it will become unplayable, and together with that will suffer the whole gameplay - camping will rise in new hights, as if it wasn't bad enough now. :mellow:

WG, the direction you are taking is far from that what players need, hopefully you will understand it sooner than later..

 

perfectly summarized






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