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Sweeping HP changes


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Japualtah #1 Posted 08 April 2021 - 03:02 PM

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1° Double HPs of all tanks

2° Increase lower tier HPs by 30% for each tier down, meaning a tier VIII in a tier X game would have +60% HPs - replace 30 with whatever number you're comfortable with, doesn't matter.

 

This would be an incentive to take more risks since losing a third of your HPs from a single hit - if not being plain one-shot - would be a thing of the past and steamrolls would occur, if not less frequently, at least more slowly giving the team time to react.

 

Now that's for the - debatable - plus, what I'd like to hear from you are the downsides.

I'm posting this since my yesterday session was utterly ridiculous with games ending in 15 to 0 - 6 games most of the time.

 

What I also like to know if whether steamrolls are something WG endorses to allow for a fast paced game which suits more to younger generations used to mobile games, or if we have a reached such a silly point that the whole game doesn't make much sense anymore.

 

Now, on a less consensual note, the pandemic has underscored, in my honest opinion, how scared people can be in general, something I had never really so accurately realized before, so it is very well possible that any incentive to be more brave is doomed to fail.

 

What do you think?



AmphetamineLogic #2 Posted 08 April 2021 - 03:04 PM

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I think we should also double the damage just to even things out.

mynameispuffs #3 Posted 08 April 2021 - 03:09 PM

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Whilst it could be viable at lower tiers, ask yourself this: Would you really want to see a Maus with 6k+ HP rolling towards you in your tier 8 with 2.5k dpm?

 

You'd need to correspondingly buff the damage outputs of nearly every vehicle in the game. 



Geno1isme #4 Posted 08 April 2021 - 03:11 PM

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More HP will not prevent steamrolls. In most cases they will just prolong things without significantly changing the results. Also this would cause massive balancing issues as esp. high-alpha tanks need that fear factor as kind of additional "psychological armor". Which in the end it might even result in more steamrolls as people are no longer afraid of pushing.

 

Also when you increase HP by such amounts you'll also have to adjust other parameters like ammo capacity. Some tanks are already problematic due to low ammo capacity.



ilmavarvas #5 Posted 08 April 2021 - 03:21 PM

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View PostAmphetamineLogic, on 08 April 2021 - 03:04 PM, said:

I think we should also double the damage just to even things out.

 

Make it triple!



Japualtah #6 Posted 08 April 2021 - 03:22 PM

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View Postmynameispuffs, on 08 April 2021 - 03:09 PM, said:

Whilst it could be viable at lower tiers, ask yourself this: Would you really want to see a Maus with 6k+ HP rolling towards you in your tier 8 with 2.5k dpm?

 

Yes.

I have fought the Maus with an M6, for the record, I have already seen that kind of situation.
At that time we could flank and circle.

What good is a Maus if it can't hit you?

It is supposed to be a breakthrough tank, so it's role is to push.

How often do you seen Mauses push nowadays?

None.

They don't because they die in a few seconds if they ever try.

 

Now, maybe the problem comes from gold ammo - which WG has renounced to address - or maps - which they couldn't change even if they wanted to - so something has to be done, better keep it simple.

14:25 Added after 2 minute

View PostGeno1isme, on 08 April 2021 - 03:11 PM, said:

More HP will not prevent steamrolls. In most cases they will just prolong things.

 

That's the whole point, mate.

There is no denying that making things longer better allows for reaction.

 

Increasing ammo is a moot point though, I see little reason why the IS-4 has such pathetic load-out while I can take the whole depot in any of my American tanks.
Whatever.



Marco_Is_Legend2019 #7 Posted 08 April 2021 - 03:26 PM

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View PostJapualtah, on 08 April 2021 - 03:02 PM, said:

What I also like to know if whether steamrolls are something WG endorses to allow for a fast paced game which suits more to younger generations used to mobile games, or if we have a reached such a silly point that the whole game doesn't make much sense anymore.

 

I don't assume to know the company line on steamrolls and I honestly doubt there is one but I failed to find any difference in the average battle time over the years. From the very early attempts to calculate it in 2012, 2013 and 2014 to 2021. It was always around 7 minutes and there were always steamrolls.

 

View PostJapualtah, on 08 April 2021 - 03:02 PM, said:

Now, on a less consensual note, the pandemic has underscored, in my honest opinion, how scared people can be in general, something I had never really so accurately realized before, so it is very well possible that any incentive to be more brave is doomed to fail.

 

People with "things" are scared. When their lives or the stuff they value are at stake they will be afraid and that's generally a good sign of mental and emotional stability. In a video game with pixel tanks, what have you got to lose? A few minutes to try and maybe learn something. Why press battle then?

 

View PostJapualtah, on 08 April 2021 - 03:02 PM, said:

What do you think?

 

I think it'll be the same, will only take longer.



Japualtah #8 Posted 08 April 2021 - 03:35 PM

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View PostMarco_Is_Legend2019, on 08 April 2021 - 03:26 PM, said:

 

People with "things" are scared. When their lives or the stuff they value are at stake they will be afraid and that's generally a good sign of mental and emotional stability. In a video game with pixel tanks, what have you got to lose? A few minutes to try and maybe learn something. Why press battle then?

 

Always made me scratch my head, to be honest.

I see the game as a place to do things you would not normally do, I can't fathom how people can sit in a bush for 10 minutes without moving an inch.

Only one thing is sure, WG know what they are doing and probably already have had psychological studies processed on their game.


Edited by Japualtah, 08 April 2021 - 03:36 PM.


Geno1isme #9 Posted 08 April 2021 - 03:40 PM

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View PostJapualtah, on 08 April 2021 - 04:22 PM, said:

That's the whole point, mate.

There is no denying that making things longer better allows for reaction.

Not really. Balance will simply be shifted from high-alpha to high-dpm tanks. And high-dpm tanks are already the ones causing steam-rolls right now. It will just promote hyper-aggressive gameplay and put slower tanks even more at a disadvantage.

 

Taking your Maus example, it will still get obliterated in seconds, except now that will not just happen when it pushes itself but also when it is pushed. As russian meds won't be afraid anymore of taking two or three 490 alpha hits when they have 4k HP, and the Maus won't be able to hit them back once they are in close combat due to slow traverse speeds. 


Edited by Geno1isme, 08 April 2021 - 03:42 PM.


norbar #10 Posted 08 April 2021 - 03:41 PM

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View PostJapualtah, on 08 April 2021 - 03:22 PM, said:

 

Yes.

I have fought the Maus with an M6, for the record, I have already seen that kind of situation.
At that time we could flank and circle.

What good is a Maus if it can't hit you?

It is supposed to be a breakthrough tank, so it's role is to push.

How often do you seen Mauses push nowadays?

None.

They don't because they die in a few seconds if they ever try.

 

Now, maybe the problem comes from gold ammo - which WG has renounced to address - or maps - which they couldn't change even if they wanted to - so something has to be done, better keep it simple.

14:25 Added after 2 minute

 

That's the whole point, mate.

There is no denying that making things longer better allows for reaction.

 

Increasing ammo is a moot point though, I see little reason why the IS-4 has such pathetic load-out while I can take the whole depot in any of my American tanks.
Whatever.

 

They Faulkner can you edit your stream of consciousness a bit so we can understand what you mean? Because it seems like you want M6 tanks to flank maus tanks. 

Also it's uber difficult to balance super heavies since if you make them too strong you get into old Maus meta where they could yolo flanks. Looking at WR heavies don't do bad. Simply when things go wrong you can't relocate as easily and they can't chanse damage so you get into hopeless situations more often. But the problem isn't with heavies being bad but with them being frustrating to play. Also honeslty it's not a problem of HP but map design and too many hull down monster tanks. Since the game focuses on hull down so much now tanks like a Maus are screwed. 



Isharial #11 Posted 08 April 2021 - 03:46 PM

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View PostJapualtah, on 08 April 2021 - 03:02 PM, said:

1° Double HPs of all tanks

2° Increase lower tier HPs by 30% for each tier down, meaning a tier VIII in a tier X game would have +60% HPs - replace 30 with whatever number you're comfortable with, doesn't matter.

 

 

doubling all tank HP's does what? prolongs a battle, but what's the idea? it doesn't prevent steamrolls, or even affects them.

 

so, when bottom tier an ISU 152 would have around 2k HP, simply because its 2 tiers lower? that's more than most T9 and more than some T10's. that just buffs tanks that are stupid at T8, or T6, or T5 or whatever. a progetto 46 with 2.2k HP? im sure everyone would love to see that....

 

View Postmynameispuffs, on 08 April 2021 - 03:09 PM, said:

Whilst it could be viable at lower tiers, ask yourself this: Would you really want to see a Maus with 6k+ HP rolling towards you in your tier 8 with 2.5k dpm?

 

You'd need to correspondingly buff the damage outputs of nearly every vehicle in the game. 

^^^

 

and if you did, you'd end up with what we have now, so it doesn't seem like a great idea....

 

 



Japualtah #12 Posted 08 April 2021 - 03:49 PM

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View PostGeno1isme, on 08 April 2021 - 03:40 PM, said:

Not really. Balance will simply be shifted from high-alpha to high-dpm tanks. And high-dpm tanks are already the ones causing steam-rolls right now. It will just promote hyper-aggressive gameplay and put slower tanks even more at a disadvantage.

 

Taking your Maus example, it will still get obliterated in seconds, except now that will not just happen when it pushes itself but also when it is pushed. As russian meds won't be afraid anymore of taking two or three 490 alpha hits when they have 4k HP, and the Maus won't be able to hit them back once they are in close combat due to slow traverse speeds. 

 

Good, keep it coming.

I think your reply supports my point though.

For the time being, very few players have the guts to push, be it a Maus or a Grile for that matter.

Isn't aggressive game-play something we should look for?
With more HPs, taking risks could be viable but the defending side would also have more time to counter an attack while for now when you are pushed, you just raise your pee-pee and position your mouse pointer on the 'return to garage' button.

 

Team-play would be more important than it is now.
You can get away with going alone to defend a flank, that would no longer be the case.

14:52 Added after 2 minute

View PostIsharial, on 08 April 2021 - 03:46 PM, said:

 

doubling all tank HP's does what? prolongs a battle, but what's the idea?

 

 

You just answered your question mate.



Isharial #13 Posted 08 April 2021 - 04:07 PM

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View PostJapualtah, on 08 April 2021 - 03:49 PM, said:

 

Good, keep it coming.

I think your reply supports my point though.

For the time being, very few players have the guts to push, be it a Maus or a Grile for that matter.

Isn't aggressive game-play something we should look for?
With more HPs, taking risks could be viable but the defending side would also have more time to counter an attack while for now when you are pushed, you just raise your pee-pee and position your mouse pointer on the 'return to garage' button.

 

Team-play would be more important than it is now.
You can get away with going alone to defend a flank, that would no longer be the case.

14:52 Added after 2 minute

 

You just answered your question mate.

 

no i didnt? - there was a rhetorical, and a proper question, your prolonging the battle but to what end?



demon_tank #14 Posted 08 April 2021 - 04:09 PM

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We have more serious problems. This is another non issue.

 

Arties.

Wheelies.

Crew 2.0

HE 2.0

MM

Not existing tank balance and Balance Department slow response times etc.



Geno1isme #15 Posted 08 April 2021 - 04:12 PM

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View PostJapualtah, on 08 April 2021 - 04:49 PM, said:

Isn't aggressive game-play something we should look for?

Ehm, you complain about steam-rolls, but want to promote hyper-aggressive gameplay? That's a contradiction.

 

View PostJapualtah, on 08 April 2021 - 04:49 PM, said:

With more HPs, taking risks could be viable but the defending side would also have more time to counter an attack while for now when you are pushed, you just raise your pee-pee and position your mouse pointer on the 'return to garage' button.

Not in the current gamestate. For example there are many very strong map positions that would become completely OP if you reduce the risk to take them right at the start. The little time you might gain as a defender won't help you when you lack the mobility (in practice the difference will be much smaller than you think). We'll just see more EBR bobby cars, russian meds, borat and progetto autoclickers, flying saucer russian meds and so on dominating the battle field. Slow tanks will be even more degraded into XP pinatas.



Japualtah #16 Posted 08 April 2021 - 04:38 PM

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View PostGeno1isme, on 08 April 2021 - 04:12 PM, said:

Ehm, you complain about steam-rolls, but want to promote hyper-aggressive gameplay? That's a contradiction.

Is it?

First off, I didn't say hyper-aggressive, you did.

Second off, the reason why we have stale games if because the HP pool is too low, so increasing HPs kills two birds with one stone: allow for more dynamic play and give the team time to fight back.

Just brainstorming here though.

View PostGeno1isme, on 08 April 2021 - 04:12 PM, said:

there are many very strong map positions that would become completely OP if you reduce the risk to take them right at the start.

You have a point, like rushing to the north of Erlenberg just under the ledge to spot the usual campers who make a trash of that map.
Would it be overpowered as you state?
Could be, worth a try in my opinion.

 

View Postdemon_tank, on 08 April 2021 - 04:09 PM, said:

We have more serious problems. This is another non issue.

 

Probably.

Bored at work on a long UE4 debugging session, still two bugs left to squash.
This could be the best idea in the world of tanks that it wouldn't make it's way to WG anyway, would it ? :girl:

 

View PostIsharial, on 08 April 2021 - 04:07 PM, said:

 

 proper question, your prolonging the battle but to what end?

 

Make the game more dynamic, have time to react, have an incentive to make moves, you know, have fun :B



Isharial #17 Posted 08 April 2021 - 05:04 PM

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View PostJapualtah, on 08 April 2021 - 04:38 PM, said:

Make the game more dynamic, have time to react, have an incentive to make moves, you know, have fun :B

 

how did you manage to get to that conclusion?

 

it wouldn't be more "dynamic", all it would do is reward more idiotic movements, which isn't a good thing... 

 

you have time to react currently, unless your AFK, at to which point no amount of HP will ever change that

 

making moves is perfectly possible, *if* you have 2 braincells you can rub together and don't blindly drive across Malinovka field or pull out side on to a platoon of FV4005's. 

 

 

if you don't have fun, then id say its time to find a new game, as that's the *only* reason games exist



Japualtah #18 Posted 08 April 2021 - 05:15 PM

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To make a game last long, which WoT has achieved pretty well so far, you have to think about all aspects of it and listen to the players, sparks can come from hitting two stones on each other.

But hey, what do I know, I've only been developing games for twenty years after all :trollface:

 

Enough brainstorming for today, job done, going home, peace out folks :B



Isharial #19 Posted 08 April 2021 - 05:26 PM

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View PostJapualtah, on 08 April 2021 - 05:15 PM, said:

To make a game last long, which WoT has achieved pretty well so far, you have to think about all aspects of it and listen to the players, sparks can come from hitting two stones on each other.

But hey, what do I know, I've only been developing games for twenty years after all :trollface:

 

Enough brainstorming for today, job done, going home, peace out folks :B

 

listening to your idea's so far is what will drive WoT's stake further into the ground.... Most of the players that post here don't even think about the effects of their idea's on other parts of the game, as we frequently see in the "remove prem ammo" threads

 

 

as to the rest? its a completely pointless thing to say, no? i mean, none of us can actually verify that claim unless you post personal information, at to which point it would be hidden and you'd probably be banned for sharing it (what other forums do, i can't remember the specific rule on personal information for the WoT forums atm). so at best, your questionable, at worst, a liar. 

doesn't help the discussion in the slightest

 

 


Edited by Isharial, 08 April 2021 - 05:26 PM.


AmphetamineLogic #20 Posted 08 April 2021 - 05:45 PM

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View PostJapualtah, on 08 April 2021 - 04:15 PM, said:

But hey, what do I know, I've only been developing games for twenty years after all :trollface:

 

 

I wrote a better version of "Lunar Lander" which more accurately simulated actual physics in 1980. Does that count?






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