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Results of Sandbox Iterations. HE Shells and SPGs: What’s Next?


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Community #1 Posted 18 May 2021 - 02:00 PM

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It's time to sum up the results of the tests for the reworked HE shells and complex changes to vehicles and SPGs.

The full text of the news item

SharpBlue #2 Posted 18 May 2021 - 02:07 PM

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:popcorn:

 

 

 

 



SlyHuntsman #3 Posted 18 May 2021 - 02:08 PM

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Where are the results VS Cheiftan, 279e etc? OH WAIT you excluded them from testing which is still a massive joke

Dwigt #4 Posted 18 May 2021 - 02:21 PM

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View PostSlyHuntsman, on 18 May 2021 - 02:08 PM, said:

Where are the results VS Cheiftan, 279e etc? OH WAIT you excluded them from testing which is still a massive joke

Hey there SlyHuntsman,

Indeed the Chieftain, 279(e) as well as other vehicles are not included in the article for two reasons:

First one, we can not include every vehicle in one article and since it's a general change, lots of vehicles from different tiers are affected. And the second one would be, that certain vehicles, like the Chieftain and 279(e) are not very popular and are limited to certain tiers and players. However, over the coming weeks and tests more players from different levels and regions will be testing the new changes and on different tanks and tiers allowing us to gather more data. We will keep on monitoring the stats and results and adjust the changes accordingly if needed.

 

What do you think about the rest of the changes? Are these tables and infographics helpful to understand and compare the resutls?



Spinee #5 Posted 18 May 2021 - 02:30 PM

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Finally glad that just brainlessly spamming HE at people actually using their tank correctly won't be rewarded anymore, so good players can actually use hull-down positions properly instead of being forced to retreat because some bot in their 60TP/FV4005 is spamming HE at the front of their turret and doing 400/800 damage, and apparently Gold ammo is the bigger problem, sure lol.

 

Can't wait until I can actually play my Chieftain and other hull down tanks again.


Edited by Spinee, 18 May 2021 - 02:34 PM.


__FANY__ #6 Posted 18 May 2021 - 02:40 PM

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Hi, HE changes look ok, I have only one problem - penetrating screens, walls etc. by HE shells should not be possible.

SPG changes aren't ok, AP alpha damage is too low, and this shell's trajectory is still really bad. I would prefer to have all shells on the same trajectory with the same shell velocity. I hope that arty will get back its standard HE splash radius back to its live server value. Not nerfing it by 5 %. (T92 HMC splash 13m, not 12,4m)

In the statistics, I can see that also standard and alternative shells for T92 HMC, Conq GC and GWE-100 were underpowered. I hope they will be balanced in increment in damage or average penetration value.



feies_vlad #7 Posted 18 May 2021 - 02:43 PM

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View Post__FANY__, on 18 May 2021 - 02:40 PM, said:

Hi, HE changes look ok, I have only one problem - penetrating screens, walls etc. by HE shells should not be possible.

SPG changes aren't ok, AP alpha damage is too low, and this shell's trajectory is still really bad. I would prefer to have all shells on the same trajectory with the same shell velocity. I hope that arty will get back its standard HE splash radius back to its live server value. Not nerfing it by 5 %. (T92 HMC splash 13m, not 12,4m)

In the statistics, I can see that also standard and alternative shells for T92 HMC, Conq GC and GWE-100 were underpowered. I hope they will be balanced in increment in damage or average penetration value.

AP alpha dmg to low? I mean that is how it should be LOW, we really really don't need arta to do more dmg, and the other way around, less dmg.


Edited by feies_vlad, 19 May 2021 - 07:33 AM.


Cabouse1337 #8 Posted 18 May 2021 - 02:46 PM

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View PostSpinee, on 18 May 2021 - 01:30 PM, said:

Finally glad that just brainlessly spamming HE at people actually using their tank correctly won't be rewarded anymore, so good players can actually use hull-down positions properly instead of being forced to retreat because some bot in their 60TP/FV4005 is spamming HE at the front of their turret and doing 400/800 damage, and apparently Gold ammo is the bigger problem, sure lol.

 

Can't wait until I can actually play my Chieftain and other hull down tanks again.


Yeah because thats the problem with the balance of this game I understand the 60TP because if you can guarantee 400 damage per shot why wouldn't you. The FV4005 and the 183 need a rework and i own both of them yeah its fun to hit someone for high rolls but especially for the 4005 and the light meta at tier 10 it has no camo no armor they neutered its speed and its huge. If they want people to use less gold ammo nerf the max pen of the gold ammo and give the tank more ammo in total or better still maybe give the tank AP / Heat and Hesh but make the hesh pen comparable to its peers. I mean if they wanted to make the FV4005 more like its actual design and leave it with those weaknesses give it the 3 shot magazine and make the reload over a minute because it seems to be moving towards an autoloader meta anyway.


Edited by Cabouse1337, 18 May 2021 - 02:47 PM.


ExeCutOr563 #9 Posted 18 May 2021 - 02:47 PM

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After reading the whole article, I have to admit I'm pretty pleased with the changes. Hope the changes (if they do come) will be as good as they sound! 

Gremlin182 #10 Posted 18 May 2021 - 02:54 PM

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Pleased that you are going to continue to work on tanks that depend on HE.

However I want to continue to stress something you keep saying which is Incorrect imo.

 

HESH is NOT HE.it is a variation on the HEAT shells attempting to do the same thing

OK all 3 types have High Explosive in their name but that is not the point.

 

High explosive simply explodes on contact with any hard surface and the damage done very much depends on the armour of the target.

The blast may well find weaknesses and do more damage but such shells are not intended for armoured targets.

 

High explosive Squash head or High explosive plastic are armour defeating rounds and should be balanced in the same way High explosive anti tank rounds are.

One tries to focus the power of the charge to cause spaling ie scabs of hot metal flake off the inner armour surface and fly around the tank interior.

The other HEAT uses the monroe effect to burn a small hole through the armour plate and a jet of superheated plasma enters the crew space.

 

You know all this but the game treats HESH simply as a weird higher pen HE shell which it isnt.

So please get the rebalancing right.

Spal liners are effective against all these rounds its just that few use them because we are limited to 3 equipment slots.

Maybe Spal liners should be modules not equipment.

 



pihip #11 Posted 18 May 2021 - 03:03 PM

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The line that, more or less, goes "hull down vehicles will be even more effective and other players will have to find ways to flank them" says it all.

 

Chieftain, Concept 1B, Obj 279e, etc. - owners of these vehicles can celebrate as they won't have trouble roflstomping in any match they play.

 

Everyone else can go die in a ditch as far as WG is concerned.

Waiting for some mod or apologist to claim this is not the case, [content removed]. Personal attacks


Edited by L3gionaire, 18 May 2021 - 03:27 PM.
3. Don’t resort to personal attacks, abuse or harassment


Zoltan1251 #12 Posted 18 May 2021 - 03:08 PM

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View PostSpinee, on 18 May 2021 - 02:30 PM, said:

Finally glad that just brainlessly spamming HE at people actually using their tank correctly won't be rewarded anymore, so good players can actually use hull-down positions properly instead of being forced to retreat because some bot in their 60TP/FV4005 is spamming HE at the front of their turret and doing 400/800 damage, and apparently Gold ammo is the bigger problem, sure lol.

 

Can't wait until I can actually play my Chieftain and other hull down tanks again.

so what they are suppose to do?... this one sided opinions are poison to this game.... on one hand you say the game is not balanced and on the other hand you only want to be immortal and ruin the game for everyone... sure, you can deal some damage with new HE but its effectively useless when Chieftain can tear you apart much faster



Covenant_R #13 Posted 18 May 2021 - 03:13 PM

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I only really have one specific issue...


I enjoyed the changed mechanics on especially the SPG, but also the HE... cant wait for them to hit live.
My single reservation is about the screens, and mostly for specific tanks.... namely tanks like the Sheridan that rely on the screens to protect them from anything that is not AP basically.
And while it was said that pin point changes would be done after, already seeing the data in the article says it should be thought over to look at specific vehicles before release.

This is no insignificant change... basically autopen if you hit the tank.

 

Attached Thumbnails


Edited by Covenant_R, 18 May 2021 - 03:14 PM.


BR33K1_PAWAH #14 Posted 18 May 2021 - 03:15 PM

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And not a single word about stun in Personal Campaign missions :sceptic:

gunslingerXXX #15 Posted 18 May 2021 - 03:29 PM

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:ohmy:

KanonenVogel19 #16 Posted 18 May 2021 - 03:31 PM

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View PostZoltan1251, on 18 May 2021 - 03:08 PM, said:

so what they are suppose to do?... this one sided opinions are poison to this game.... on one hand you say the game is not balanced and on the other hand you only want to be immortal and ruin the game for everyone... sure, you can deal some damage with new HE but its effectively useless when Chieftain can tear you apart much faster

 

He wants to be invincible in his Chieftain while everyone else that doesn't have a Chieftain should be cannon fodder so that he more easily can improve his purple colors and marks of excellence. HE shells causes damage to his turret so not good. Artillery causes damage to his turret so not good. Premium ammo on the other hand allows him to more easily farm noobs in heavy tanks so that is very good. If you ask him about T110E5 he probably thinks that it should keep its turret weakspot because how should he farm it otherwise? This is why stat-obsessed players should not be allowed near game design in any way.



ExeCutOr563 #17 Posted 18 May 2021 - 03:36 PM

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View PostBR33K1_PAWAH, on 18 May 2021 - 03:15 PM, said:

And not a single word about stun in Personal Campaign missions :sceptic:

Uh oh...



mjs_89 #18 Posted 18 May 2021 - 03:38 PM

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View PostBR33K1_PAWAH, on 18 May 2021 - 03:15 PM, said:

And not a single word about stun in Personal Campaign missions :sceptic:

 

Why mention something that'll get changed around christmas (if at all)?



pihip #19 Posted 18 May 2021 - 03:47 PM

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View PostZoltan1251, on 18 May 2021 - 03:08 PM, said:

so what they are suppose to do?... this one sided opinions are poison to this game.... on one hand you say the game is not balanced and on the other hand you only want to be immortal and ruin the game for everyone... sure, you can deal some damage with new HE but its effectively useless when Chieftain can tear you apart much faster

 

He does not care. He wants to be invincible in his precious OP tank and he was salty bad HE scratches his paint. That's a big no-no, how can a sub-50% player make him lose hitpoints? Unforgivable!

 

Oh and, poking from a ridge or a mound of rubble is SKILL :trollface: always remember that :)



Tazz__ #20 Posted 18 May 2021 - 03:51 PM

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View PostDwigt, on 18 May 2021 - 01:21 PM, said:

Hey there SlyHuntsman,

Indeed the Chieftain, 279(e) as well as other vehicles are not included in the article for two reasons:

First one, we can not include every vehicle in one article and since it's a general change, lots of vehicles from different tiers are affected. And the second one would be, that certain vehicles, like the Chieftain and 279(e) are not very popular and are limited to certain tiers and players. However, over the coming weeks and tests more players from different levels and regions will be testing the new changes and on different tanks and tiers allowing us to gather more data. We will keep on monitoring the stats and results and adjust the changes accordingly if needed.

 

What do you think about the rest of the changes? Are these tables and infographics helpful to understand and compare the resutls?

Will the intuition crew skill change ? If so to know if we can finally use that skill in tanks properlly as i use all 3 times of ammo, especially in premium tanks to farm credits. Also another question as i missed the HE test as i was inactive, will HE be able to pen spaced armored? or shields like STRV in front ?






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