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I gave up on Fjords in Randoms.

Fjords Map Gameplay Positioning Skill

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Lanrefni #1 Posted 19 May 2021 - 11:30 AM

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Today, after many moons and many hunts, I gave up on this pathetic, terrible map. No matter the tier, no matter the tanks or team setups, 9 out of 10 battles on this map are lost because basically nobody knows how to play it proper. 

 

If you're on the left spawn, then everyone generally ignores the middle, because they are scared of being farmed from A/B 6/7/8 and that allows for easy pushing to be done for the other team in the mid. Right spawn also seems to have easier access to the hill (for whatever f-ing reason) and the only thing that left side has, is ability to counter mid and the hill from the north.

as a result, the right spawn also has better spotting positions, better arty positions.

 

It just baffle me that somehow people seem to forget this map has at least 2 flanks, instead of one, which is the ht corridor in the south. And the other flank is usually ignored, which leads to losing majority of battles for this map. Not only that, but the map has been somehow completely f-ed.



TankkiPoju #2 Posted 19 May 2021 - 11:35 AM

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Blocked Fjords the second WG added the possibility.

 

Out of all the crap maps in WoT, it's the worst because not only is it unbalanced, there isn't a single tank type that has fun on this map.



Feoffle_der_Fachidiot #3 Posted 19 May 2021 - 11:54 AM

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I must admit, judging by my recent games on this map, I want to ban it too.

 

 



hjorte #4 Posted 19 May 2021 - 11:57 AM

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View PostLanrefni, on 19 May 2021 - 11:30 AM, said:

If you're on the left spawn, then everyone generally ignores the middle, because they are scared of being farmed from A/B 6/7/8 and that allows for easy pushing to be done for the other team in the mid.

 

I don't recall having recurring issues with that, so long as you place a scout tank at C7, which will spot any of those coordinates and thus making farming and pushing more costly. Said scout tank can even fire and remain unspotted if done correctly.

 

sdrtfgaa.png


Edited by hjorte, 19 May 2021 - 12:07 PM.


Miepie #5 Posted 19 May 2021 - 12:50 PM

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Candarian #6 Posted 19 May 2021 - 12:58 PM

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berlin

paris

glacier

 

all of them are not so great

 

but nothing top minsk

 

fjords on the other hand is at least ok



Lanrefni #7 Posted 19 May 2021 - 01:01 PM

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View Posthjorte, on 19 May 2021 - 12:57 PM, said:

 

I don't recall having recurring issues with that, so long as you place a scout tank at C7, which will spot any of those coordinates and thus making farming and pushing more costly. Said scout tank can even fire and remain unspotted if done correctly.

 

sdrtfgaa.png

No, I will not play on it again.



Flicka #8 Posted 19 May 2021 - 01:10 PM

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DIP OR DIE!

And pick the map you want to apply that to, there is quite a number.



LethalWalou #9 Posted 19 May 2021 - 01:16 PM

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View PostLanrefni, on 19 May 2021 - 10:30 AM, said:

because basically nobody knows how to play it proper. 

 

If you're on the left spawn, then everyone generally ignores the middle, because they are scared of being farmed from A/B 6/7/8 and that allows for easy pushing to be done for the other team in the mid. 

 

It just baffle me that somehow people seem to forget this map has at least 2 flanks, instead of one, which is the ht corridor in the south. And the other flank is usually ignored, which leads to losing majority of battles for this map

 

Seems like another player has found out that players are what is making the map bad. If only people from west spawn would indeed do something other than camp in the worst position ever while giving away map control.

 

This is where the west (red) team usually sits and east (green) team is allowed to just free farm them.

 



Kozzy #10 Posted 19 May 2021 - 01:26 PM

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I find that when I play on East spawn I experience the issue of a bunch of players rushing to A8 and then not moving until the battle is nearly won or nearly lost.  I hate this map.  Heavy line is no fun, camping/sniping is no fun, F/E8 is no fun, C4 is no fun.   I tend to just fight it out for the middle and try to expand map control from there.  

LethalWalou #11 Posted 19 May 2021 - 01:37 PM

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View PostKozzy, on 19 May 2021 - 12:26 PM, said:

I find that when I play on East spawn I experience the issue of a bunch of players rushing to A8 and then not moving until the battle is nearly won or nearly lost. 

 

I've noticed that too, even to the point that no one goes to middle from east because they just mindlessly drive to the NE hill as if there's free candy there. It's not going to have that much of a negative consequence for east team, at least not immediately, because people from west spawn are generally playing so badly that they don't even try to take advantage of east playing badly.



Flicka #12 Posted 19 May 2021 - 01:37 PM

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View PostLethalWalou, on 19 May 2021 - 01:16 PM, said:

 

Seems like another player has found out that players are what is making the map bad. If only people from west spawn would indeed do something other than camp in the worst position ever while giving away map control.

 

This is where the west (red) team usually sits and east (green) team is allowed to just free farm them.

 

Of course it is the player base, if it was not you would see huge differences on the wining % per side. The actual talk is about "is the map so bad that player base cannot play it properly, and WG needs to change it" or "is the player base so bad that the map is not playable while it is OK, but WG cant change a thing".

In both cases it is the player base, just the solution to the problem is different.

I had a West spawn, and rushed the dip through the middle, barely survived but kept alive and spoted alot of stuff in middle. Won the game by actually arty players playing the map good, and not chasing kills or scouts.



TankkiPoju #13 Posted 19 May 2021 - 01:50 PM

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View PostFlicka, on 19 May 2021 - 01:10 PM, said:

DIP OR DIE!

And pick the map you want to apply that to, there is quite a number.

 

Imma let you finish but srsly the dip on Live Oaks is the ultimate RNGesus take the wheel moment every time.



LethalWalou #14 Posted 19 May 2021 - 01:58 PM

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View PostFlicka, on 19 May 2021 - 12:37 PM, said:

Of course it is the player base, if it was not you would see huge differences on the wining % per side. The actual talk is about "is the map so bad that player base cannot play it properly, and WG needs to change it" or "is the player base so bad that the map is not playable while it is OK, but WG cant change a thing".

In both cases it is the player base, just the solution to the problem is different.

I had a West spawn, and rushed the dip through the middle, barely survived but kept alive and spoted alot of stuff in middle. Won the game by actually arty players playing the map good, and not chasing kills or scouts.

 

It's the latter, the map is playable but player base is generally playing so badly that it makes the map bad. WG could artificially start helping players by giving them crutches, like it was with making crossing to city on Fisherman's Bay safer. I don't although know if that would change anything.

 

I see the situation same as it is on Live Oaks. On Live Oaks north has shorter and faster route to the dip, but you never really see people going for it but instead they stay back and give that to the south team. The map offers similar and different possibilities for both teams to take advantage of in the dip position, but north teams generally don't use them, they tend to just sit on their side waiting to get themselves in a crossfire.

 

Fjords offers different opportunities for both teams to take as well, but generally people choose to just sit in the most useless position, which is the north field. They get time and time again farmed there and I truly wonder why don't they learn from it... The player base isn't that stupid that it isn't able to collectively learn over time, players for example learned to cross further away to position on some maps without WG having to give them crutches and for example on Paris you don't really spot the east team crossing to south anymore because they generally have an LT or MT countering the position you spot from. So player base learned these kind of things but for some reason it's not happening on Fjords, and on some other maps like Glacier and Mountain Pass.

 

Mid to late game on Fjords has although evolved, west spawn tends to go to the F3 position for example and in mid game will do a late push to the dip while the east tanks have progressed to the field. So there's some hope for the map, if only people stopped camping the north field when they don't have map control.



Flicka #15 Posted 19 May 2021 - 02:06 PM

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View PostLethalWalou, on 19 May 2021 - 01:58 PM, said:

 

It's the latter, the map is playable but player base is generally playing so badly that it makes the map bad. WG could artificially start helping players by giving them crutches, like it was with making crossing to city on Fisherman's Bay safer. I don't although know if that would change anything.

 

I see the situation same as it is on Live Oaks. On Live Oaks north has shorter and faster route to the dip, but you never really see people going for it but instead they stay back and give that to the south team. The map offers similar and different possibilities for both teams to take advantage of in the dip position, but north teams generally don't use them, they tend to just sit on their side waiting to get themselves in a crossfire.

 

Fjords offers different opportunities for both teams to take as well, but generally people choose to just sit in the most useless position, which is the north field. They get time and time again farmed there and I truly wonder why don't they learn from it... The player base isn't that stupid that it isn't able to collectively learn over time, players for example learned to cross further away to position on some maps without WG having to give them crutches and for example on Paris you don't really spot the east team crossing to south anymore because they generally have an LT or MT countering the position you spot from. So player base learned these kind of things but for some reason it's not happening on Fjords, and on some other maps like Glacier and Mountain Pass.

 

Mid to late game on Fjords has although evolved, west spawn tends to go to the F3 position for example and in mid game will do a late push to the dip while the east tanks have progressed to the field. So there's some hope for the map, if only people stopped camping the north field when they don't have map control.

I like how you called them crutches instead of training wheels, tells how much you think they will help.

I play too sporadically to learn all the nuances a map can give, but reading these discussion helped a lot, now that F3 position has become quite strong in my playbook.

I guess we can only hope to have a player base that could learn more than just to do 1 thing on a map, but that seems like wishful thinking now.

You can see it kinda more clearly now, since even WG marked key positions on maps, but just still just do not see players go to some for some reason.



LethalWalou #16 Posted 19 May 2021 - 02:27 PM

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View PostFlicka, on 19 May 2021 - 01:06 PM, said:

I like how you called them crutches instead of training wheels, tells how much you think they will help.

I play too sporadically to learn all the nuances a map can give, but reading these discussion helped a lot, now that F3 position has become quite strong in my playbook.

I guess we can only hope to have a player base that could learn more than just to do 1 thing on a map, but that seems like wishful thinking now.

You can see it kinda more clearly now, since even WG marked key positions on maps, but just still just do not see players go to some for some reason.

 

I see them as not actually helping the players to learn something, but instead to protect them from the game world while nothing changes in their behaviour. ''Oh you don't want to cross further away to be safer, let me just plant some trees and build some houses to protect you while you just keep doing the same thing''. Maybe some other word would fit better than crutches or training wheels.

 

I remember a time when I was ridiculed for recommending the F3 position and how it was called ''useless' :hiding: now pretty every game I play people use the bushes to spot from and shoot the east tanks approaching the middle, instead of only shooting tanks going up to the middle hill.  I didn't although predict so many would actually start doing late pushes from there, I've been effed a few times because I got tanks pushing to my rear when I was doing my free farming on the north field. The middle road in general has become more used too.

 

I personally don't see it as wishful thinking. We've seen the player base learn things and avoid doing stupid things. Over time I have to change my own tactics because people slightly change their play style so that I can't take advantage of their plays anymore. But for some reason, in some cases this change isn't happening and I don't understand why not...


Have I missed something, did they mark the key positions somehow?



killer999death #17 Posted 19 May 2021 - 03:05 PM

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View PostCandarian, on 19 May 2021 - 12:58 PM, said:

 

 

but nothing top minsk

 

 



Ah yes, where hevies go on one side of the map and mediums on the other side then they have a stare off with the enemy tanks for an eternity.



MazeeKeen #18 Posted 19 May 2021 - 03:33 PM

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It's not even good for arty players.

Flicka #19 Posted 19 May 2021 - 03:44 PM

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View PostLethalWalou, on 19 May 2021 - 02:27 PM, said:

 

I see them as not actually helping the players to learn something, but instead to protect them from the game world while nothing changes in their behaviour. ''Oh you don't want to cross further away to be safer, let me just plant some trees and build some houses to protect you while you just keep doing the same thing''. Maybe some other word would fit better than crutches or training wheels.

 

I remember a time when I was ridiculed for recommending the F3 position and how it was called ''useless' :hiding: now pretty every game I play people use the bushes to spot from and shoot the east tanks approaching the middle, instead of only shooting tanks going up to the middle hill.  I didn't although predict so many would actually start doing late pushes from there, I've been effed a few times because I got tanks pushing to my rear when I was doing my free farming on the north field. The middle road in general has become more used too.

 

I personally don't see it as wishful thinking. We've seen the player base learn things and avoid doing stupid things. Over time I have to change my own tactics because people slightly change their play style so that I can't take advantage of their plays anymore. But for some reason, in some cases this change isn't happening and I don't understand why not...


Have I missed something, did they mark the key positions somehow?

Yeah, we have "key" positions on every map when the battle starts and you can ping them that you will drive there. I think I saw it used maybe 0,00001 per battle so far.

But there is a joke in there, you can ping a position, others will go there thinking they wont be alone, then you use them as a spotter and cannon fodder for the enemies to farm some dmg.

I am always surprised how they never predict the most evil wrong use for anything they put into the game. For every good thing people invented, there was another person thinking of a way to abuse it.



Kdingo #20 Posted 19 May 2021 - 03:46 PM

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There aren't enough slots available to blacklist maps cause the player base doesn't know how to play the map, or doesn't know how to play in general.

The player base by large is rather incompetent and it's not going to change, either it's over aggressive suicide charging into unknown forces or camping in a bush, behind a house/hill that has no value and people can't even provide vision from there.. that is if they even have Viewrange to begin with. I lately ran into light tank players with less Viewrange then my is-2 Berlin... With this incompetence as a baseline I am already surprised a large portion of the player base manages to start a computer let alone manage the complicated task of logging into the game.

Edited by Kdingo, 21 May 2021 - 12:51 PM.






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