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Please do an experiment for me


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HassenderZerhacker #1 Posted 16 September 2021 - 04:45 PM

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I would like to ask players to pick tanks with fairly good mobility and try to avoid incoming arty shells.

 

When you hear the muffled sound, you know it's for you. When you hear it, move into an unexpected direction. See if it hits you.

 

A couple of times I did moves I expected to avoid the shell, like slipping down a steep slope or moving diagonally away, but it didn't help.

Try and let me know how it feels for you - I have been trying that for some time, and it seems the hit is decided by the server before the shell hits.



_LongRangeSniper_ #2 Posted 16 September 2021 - 04:50 PM

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That's certainly a new slant on the rigging theory,

HassenderZerhacker #3 Posted 16 September 2021 - 04:55 PM

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View Post_LongRangeSniper_, on 16 September 2021 - 04:50 PM, said:

That's certainly a new slant on the rigging theory,

 

it's not necessarily rigging.

the way arty shells hit me after I moved away makes me think the hit is decided earlier, and my moves don't matter.

it's not rigging if the hit rate is the same for all players.

I too regularly hit tanks that I shouldn't have hit considering where I aimed.

So, just try it out, tell me your impression.

 

The latest arty adjustments only confirm that hit rates are decided by WG. it's probably a setting per tank or something.

After the great arty rework, I could barely hit anything, and then they corrected it back up, now battles with 2500+ damage in my tier 8 arty are not uncommon.

If they can adjust hit rates, they must decide at some point if a craphits or not, and this can only be done before it hits.


Edited by HassenderZerhacker, 16 September 2021 - 05:01 PM.


jabster #4 Posted 16 September 2021 - 05:00 PM

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View PostHassenderZerhacker, on 16 September 2021 - 03:45 PM, said:

I would like to ask players to pick tanks with fairly good mobility and try to avoid incoming arty shells.

 

When you hear the muffled sound, you know it's for you. When you hear it, move into an unexpected direction. See if it hits you.

 

A couple of times I did moves I expected to avoid the shell, like slipping down a steep slope or moving diagonally away, but it didn't help.

Try and let me know how it feels for you - I have been trying that for some time, and it seems the hit is decided by the server before the shell hits.

 

 I would but you still haven’t said what your findings were from this thread.

http://forum.worldoftanks.eu/index.php?/topic/774583-please-post-players-who-have-never-spent-money-in-wot/#topmost



_LongRangeSniper_ #5 Posted 16 September 2021 - 05:22 PM

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View PostHassenderZerhacker, on 16 September 2021 - 03:55 PM, said:

the way arty shells hit me after I moved away makes me think the hit is decided earlier, and my moves don't matter.

 

I genuinely don't get how human brains can come up with more implausible answers to questions. I get that it occurs as we have people avoiding injections at the moment in case Bill Gates is going to track them, or they might be the 1/1000000 person who has an adverse reaction. Compared to the much larger percentage reduction in your chance of death or serious illness.

 

If you're hit by arty in game, one of these could occur I suppose

 

1. The enemy arty player anticipated your move, and through their knowledge of game mechanics, and their own skill landed a shot on your tank. 

 

2. A combination of a players unpredictable move, combined with the tank still being within the RNG envelope of the round means that it still hits you. Combined with forgetting and not noticing all the rounds that miss in similar circumstnaces.

 

3. WG manipulate the server so that they can make sure the round hits your tank no matter what you do, even to the point of ensuring all the graphics and trajectories look right. Thus utilising valuable server resources to ensure you receive an arty hit you don't deserve. Also, WG use server power to decide how much and how often this will occur.

 

Yep...going to be number three every day of the week.


Edited by _LongRangeSniper_, 16 September 2021 - 05:22 PM.


UrQuan #6 Posted 16 September 2021 - 05:46 PM

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A good tip for reducing HE damage: angle against where the shot comes from. This is ebcause tracks still absorb a good amount of splash damage if it hit next to you. Or it hits your tracks instead of armor, which will still reduce the damage received.

 

I perform arty avoidance maneuvers often and they they seem to work. More often then not, it reduces the damage I would get. Due to the inaccuracy of an arty shot this will sometimes not work ofc, because sometimes, by sheer RNG a shell that would have missed me will hit me because i tried avoiding it. But most of the time, it works pretty good.

Mind you, I usually drive slow tanks, so avoiding the damage entirely is not going to happen, unless RNG has mercy on me & makes the shell miss my grid entirely.

 

Note that on slopes, going down on them will often not be enough due to curved arty shell trajectories. I noticed this when playing the Obj 212A arty, it was often better to shoot the tanks who went up & down a slope, as it increased the chance to hit. The various slopes on the map Prokhorovka are good for this.

 

Edit: Will see if i get prok on my tanks, tends to be the map where I can attract arty attention reliably.


Edited by UrQuan, 16 September 2021 - 08:35 PM.


Gruff_ #7 Posted 16 September 2021 - 06:23 PM

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View PostHassenderZerhacker, on 16 September 2021 - 03:45 PM, said:

I would like to ask players to pick tanks with fairly good mobility and try to avoid incoming arty shells.

 

When you hear the muffled sound, you know it's for you. When you hear it, move into an unexpected direction. See if it hits you.

 

A couple of times I did moves I expected to avoid the shell, like slipping down a steep slope or moving diagonally away, but it didn't help.

Try and let me know how it feels for you - I have been trying that for some time, and it seems the hit is decided by the server before the shell hits.


So if you had stayed still the shot might have missed you due to the rng and distance involved?!  I see people dodging shells a lot with or without the new incoming arty alert skill.  I'll try and remember to track the results of my own dodges but think this is likely just cognative bias on your part.



Balc0ra #8 Posted 16 September 2021 - 06:41 PM

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View PostHassenderZerhacker, on 16 September 2021 - 04:45 PM, said:

I have been trying that for some time, and it seems the hit is decided by the server before the shell hits.

 

I mean, it's already decided before you move tbh if you hear it, as the trajectory is set when it's on the way.  Tho with the delayed server-to-client shell visuals, I can see why it might see more as such. 

 

But after the new commander skill about the incoming warning. My agile mediums have moved out of the way more or less constantly with only a stun. 



Uh_Oh_ #9 Posted 16 September 2021 - 06:41 PM

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You sure it isn't people simply leading shots and guessing right which direction you go in? I've had arties hit me even after being unspotted and moving away more than once. Some of them are just good at it

NUKLEAR_SLUG #10 Posted 16 September 2021 - 10:38 PM

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View PostUh_Oh_, on 16 September 2021 - 06:41 PM, said:

You sure it isn't people simply leading shots and guessing right which direction you go in? I've had arties hit me even after being unspotted and moving away more than once. Some of them are just good at it

 

I hope you're not suggesting that playing arty requires skill or even *shudders* that OP simply got outplayed..?

21:43 Added after 5 minute
 

View PostHassenderZerhacker, on 16 September 2021 - 04:55 PM, said:

The latest arty adjustments only confirm that hit rates are decided by WG. it's probably a setting per tank or something.

After the great arty rework, I could barely hit anything, and then they corrected it back up, now battles with 2500+ damage in my tier 8 arty are not uncommon.

If they can adjust hit rates, they must decide at some point if a craphits or not, and this can only be done before it hits.

 

I could show you replays of me knowing where the arty is firing from and hearing the sound change to indicate a shell is incoming. Even seeing the shell arcing up and over and then making the appropriate move to avoid it.

 

But there's really no point, because even if I did you would simply claim that the server had predetermined that particular shell was going to 'miss' so even tho it looked like I had dodged it I really hadn't.


Edited by NUKLEAR_SLUG, 16 September 2021 - 10:43 PM.


_217_ #11 Posted 16 September 2021 - 10:51 PM

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I can confirm that it is possible to dodge an incoming piece of sky pig excrement. Requires a very good power to weight ratio and immideate response. In the majority of cases i tried this i still got hit though. When i succeeded i was playing with a light tank.

 

I play on an old laptop, SD client in lowest graphics settings and about 20 to 30 FPS. Guess that doesn't help in these matters.


Edited by _217_, 16 September 2021 - 10:55 PM.


Sacha #12 Posted 16 September 2021 - 10:59 PM

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View Post_217_, on 16 September 2021 - 09:51 PM, said:

I can confirm that it is possible to dodge an incoming piece of sky pig excrement.

Somebody called the Captain?



vorlontank #13 Posted 17 September 2021 - 03:58 PM

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does the trigger for the sound come from when you are aimed at, or when it fires? chances are also that you move out of the aiming circle and so does the shell, quite often lands nowhere near where its aimed.

NUKLEAR_SLUG #14 Posted 17 September 2021 - 04:25 PM

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View Postvorlontank, on 17 September 2021 - 03:58 PM, said:

does the trigger for the sound come from when you are aimed at, or when it fires? chances are also that you move out of the aiming circle and so does the shell, quite often lands nowhere near where its aimed.

 

When it fires



CV_Rework #15 Posted 18 September 2021 - 12:07 AM

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Few notes from an arty player (havent played that much):

-Arties cannot hit you when you are constantly moving and changing directions randomly. When I try to hit enemies behind a hill, they keep moving forward and backward and this confuses me and I miss some of the shots or do very little splash damage.

-Even hitting still targets is not guaranteed due to large aiming cirle (0.6 - 1m per 100m). So, the further away you are, the better.

 

Just expect him to be targeting you all the time, and dance for him!



Only_Slightly_Bent #16 Posted 18 September 2021 - 01:11 AM

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I did some testing yesterday and can confirm that WG 100% rigs arty to hit me and 100% rigs arty to miss when I'm playing it.
My irrefutable evidence is that it's obvious due to applying my bias to only my experience, from my POV, in only the handful of battles that I'm in out of the hundreds of thousands of battles that are played daily and anyone who disagrees with me is clearly a WG fanboy shill.

Proof if proof be need be.

NUKLEAR_SLUG #17 Posted 18 September 2021 - 08:55 AM

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View PostOnly_Slightly_Bent, on 18 September 2021 - 01:11 AM, said:

it's obvious

 

*convinced*

 



wobblybob #18 Posted 18 September 2021 - 04:10 PM

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I had a look in game Hassender. I don't have the arty sixth sense skill for the record. I think what you are seeing is down to a combination of factors. In the first case, normal 6th sense went off, I moved back from bush and accelerated away forwards. An arty shell appeared shortly after and bang, straight into my tank. This felt like what you describe. 

 

The second time, I knew that one particular arty player had the xvm hots for my Kampf50 and was trying to hit me on the new airfield island recon map.  I was able to angle the camera to watch the sky, see the tracer and move out of the way. Several times. Due to this I do not believe the theory you propose is valid.

 

Going back to the Kunze panzer. I believe I was spotted from another angle that the bush did not cover (suspect EBR), the 6th sense does not go off immediately and the clicker was probably pre aimed (obvious bush is obvious, right). By the time I was aware, drove back, rotated and drove forward the shell was already fired. Game mechanics; the aim point and dispersion were calculated and the command to draw the tracer sent. The tracer only appeared part way through this due to by camera angle so it appeared to wizz straight down to a moving tank.

 

I would say on this one, Myth Busted. 


Edited by wobblybob, 18 September 2021 - 04:11 PM.


mjs_89 #19 Posted 18 September 2021 - 04:25 PM

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View PostHassenderZerhacker, on 16 September 2021 - 04:45 PM, said:

it seems the hit is decided by the server before the shell hits.

 

In that case we'd see curves arty tracers since the shell tries to follow your movement - we don't, so your tinfoil-conspiracy is wrong.



Kdingo #20 Posted 18 September 2021 - 04:37 PM

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View PostHassenderZerhacker, on 16 September 2021 - 04:45 PM, said:

I would like to ask players to pick tanks with fairly good mobility and try to avoid incoming arty shells.

 

When you hear the muffled sound, you know it's for you. When you hear it, move into an unexpected direction. See if it hits you.

 

A couple of times I did moves I expected to avoid the shell, like slipping down a steep slope or moving diagonally away, but it didn't help.

Try and let me know how it feels for you - I have been trying that for some time, and it seems the hit is decided by the server before the shell hits.

 

I already "abused" that feature to hell and back since its implementation and it saved me from so much damage i stopped counting. 

But then again i am not equipped with level 3 tinfoil hat armor so take this with a grain of salt if you are someone who does. 






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