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Lorraine 50 t and Cobra on the Supertest

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Dwigt #1 Posted 30 September 2021 - 10:26 AM

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Commanders,

 

Very soon, two vehicles will be sent to the Supertest:

The Tier IX French Lorraine 50 t Heavy tank.

The Tier IX British Cobra Medium tank.

lorraine50t_EN.jpg  COBRA_EN.jpg

 

Despite its name, the Lorraine 50 t looks very different to its younger brother, the Lorraine 40 t. The main difference is the large turret that carries the 120 mm gun. It has a damage per shot of 400 HP, an aiming time of 3 s, and a dispersion at 100 m of 0.33. Its standard AP shell penetrates 264 mm of armor, while the penetration of its special APCR shell is 308 mm.

The vehicle is well-protected in the frontal projection, and the turret armor reaches 250 mm. The vehicle has 1,900 hit points. It has a top speed of 60 km/h, a specific power of 18.2 h.p/t, and a view range of 400 m.

 

The British Cobra is strikingly different from the French. It has a 120 mm gun with a 4-shell magazine that takes 50 seconds to reload, while the time between shots is 1.33 seconds. The standard HEAT shell penetrates 268 mm of armor and deals 360 HP of damage, while the special HE shell penetrates 219 mm of armor and deals 515 HP of damage. The vehicle features an aiming time of 4 s, and a dispersion at 100 m of 0.4.

 

It should be noted that the vehicle doesn't have much to boast in terms of protection. In the frontal projection, the thickness of the armor plates reaches 130 mm. It has a top speed of 40 km/h, a specific power of 18.4 h.p/t, and a view range of 400 m.

 

Both vehicles behave very differently in battle, offering very different gameplay. The Lorraine 50 t has an accurate gun, is moderately dynamic, and is quite versatile and comfortable to operate. The Cobra has the ability to cause massive damage in close combat. Of course, each of them has its own weaknesses, but the understanding their strengths will allow you to get the most out of both vehicles.

 

Survey links for additional feedback below!

Cobra > https://forms.office.com/r/bueFSEkntd

Lorraine 50 t > https://forms.office.com/r/ax5GMZzwHt

 

 

Additional stats:

 

 



Dr_Slartibartfart #2 Posted 30 September 2021 - 11:35 AM

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Stop balancing tanks with their ammo max. 28 shells is just a joke.

saxsan4 #3 Posted 30 September 2021 - 11:57 AM

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YES

 

hello pls COBRA gimme gimme gimmie a cobra after Midnight I pay money pls

 

Thank you Dwight 

10:59 Added after 1 minute

View PostDr_Slartibartfart, on 30 September 2021 - 10:35 AM, said:

Stop balancing tanks with their ammo max. 28 shells is just a joke.


its to encourage use of field modifications 



tajj7 #4 Posted 30 September 2021 - 12:27 PM

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I mean the Cobra is all over the place. 

 

120mm but only has 360 alpha? 

1440 burst in 4s is absurd anyway, quicker then TVP, but then you notice it has HESH with 219mm of pen, so with that it's 2060 in 4s? NO NO NO NO, that can never be balanced even with bad gun handling, this thing can clip all tier 10 meds pretty much in 4s......

And only 28 shells.

 

The Lorraine looks fine, mobile heavy with probably decent turret, mediocre hull and mediocre DPM, so like an AMX M4 51 that trades DPM and hull armour for mobility, seems balanced enough. Also looks like it has a turret weakspot, so seems an ok addition.

 

The Cobra though, no that looks broken to all hell IMO. 

 

 



DontRelyOnMe #5 Posted 30 September 2021 - 12:34 PM

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1.33 intraclip on Cobra, who thought that it was a good idea? :teethhappy:

saxsan4 #6 Posted 30 September 2021 - 12:38 PM

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View Posttajj7, on 30 September 2021 - 11:27 AM, said:

I mean the Cobra is all over the place. 

 

120mm but only has 360 alpha? 

1440 burst in 4s is absurd anyway, quicker then TVP, but then you notice it has HESH with 219mm of pen, so with that it's 2060 in 4s? NO NO NO NO, that can never be balanced even with bad gun handling, this thing can clip all tier 10 meds pretty much in 4s......

And only 28 shells.

 

The Lorraine looks fine, mobile heavy with probably decent turret, mediocre hull and mediocre DPM, so like an AMX M4 51 that trades DPM and hull armour for mobility, seems balanced enough. Also looks like it has a turret weakspot, so seems an ok addition.

 

The Cobra though, no that looks broken to all hell IMO. 

 

 

 

View PostDontRelyOnMe, on 30 September 2021 - 11:34 AM, said:

1.33 intraclip on Cobra, who thought that it was a good idea? :teethhappy:


LEAVE. Cobra alone pls I want this tank like it is, its fun



sdsodin #7 Posted 30 September 2021 - 12:47 PM

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time to leave it seems.

ValkyrionX_TV #8 Posted 30 September 2021 - 12:52 PM

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stop introducing in the game new autoloader tanks at every tier every 2 months , the game is already saturated by autoloaders 

 

pls stop 



saxsan4 #9 Posted 30 September 2021 - 12:55 PM

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View PostValkyrionX_TV, on 30 September 2021 - 11:52 AM, said:

stop introducing in the game new autoloader tanks at every tier every 2 months , the game is already saturated by autoloaders 

 

pls stop 


but COBRA Is real?

 

so we should have it



Dr_Slartibartfart #10 Posted 30 September 2021 - 12:55 PM

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View Postsaxsan4, on 30 September 2021 - 10:57 AM, said:

 

its to encourage use of field modifications 

Yeah because field mods really need encouragement to be used, and which field mod actually gives you more shells?



saxsan4 #11 Posted 30 September 2021 - 12:57 PM

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View PostDr_Slartibartfart, on 30 September 2021 - 11:55 AM, said:

Yeah because field mods really need encouragement to be used, and which field mod actually gives you more shells?


? you dont need more than 28 when your reload is 50 seconds 



ValkyrionX_TV #12 Posted 30 September 2021 - 12:59 PM

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View Postsaxsan4, on 30 September 2021 - 12:55 PM, said:


but COBRA Is real?

 

so we should have it

 

yeah I know that mate but not as autoloader , the game is over-saturated by autoloaders IMO



Glint4 #13 Posted 30 September 2021 - 12:59 PM

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View Postsaxsan4, on 30 September 2021 - 09:57 AM, said:

YES

 

hello pls COBRA gimme gimme gimmie a cobra after Midnight I pay money pls

 

Thank you Dwight 

10:59 Added after 1 minute


its to encourage use of field modifications 

Omg ‍♂



leggasiini #14 Posted 30 September 2021 - 01:07 PM

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View Postsaxsan4, on 30 September 2021 - 01:38 PM, said:

 


LEAVE. Cobra alone pls I want this tank like it is, its fun

Its not fun for others. The Cobra looks awfully designed, like REALLY awfully designed. Or fine, you can keep the Cobra like it is, if I can also have a tier 8 Japanese HT premium with 14 cm from the Type 5, and similar magazine to the Chi-Ri, so 3 shells with 1 sec intra. Sure, 1800 damage in 2 seconds wouldn't be fun to fight against, but it would be fun for me, so it's fine, riiiight? :hiding:

 

-------------

 

I thought the Caliban was the epitome of a joke balancing. I really, really expected you wouldn't top it ever. However, the Cobra is absolutely ridiculous and while it technically isn't quite as minmaxed, it looks like it has potential to be much worse for the game (the Caliban at least looks pretty bad and is heavily crippled be atrocious gun stats, so it'll insta delete tanks and ruin games of other players much less consistently). The Cobra can deal 1440 damage in 3.99 seconds. That's 200 more damage than the TVP T50/51, done half a second faster, and a whole tier lower. But no, that's not all - if the Cobra has HESH loaded, it can deal 2060 damage in 3.99 seconds. Over 2000. And with such a HESH pen, it can penetrate any tank from rear or sides with HESH; it can also penetrate most LTs, MTs and even many HTs frontally if it pens a weakspot or something, and reworked HE mechanics make penning those HESH shells even easier. It took 6 seconds for the WT E 100 to deal 2260 damage, which is 50% longer time needed to only deal 200 more damage. Keep in mind that the WT was a tier higher, and was a huge, completely unarmored and slow TD, yet it was still considered to be so poorly designed and impossible to balance so that it had to be removed from the game.

 

The Cobra will be an absolutely nightmare to fight against. If you're playing any MT that isn't fairly heavily armored (talking about an Object 430U or something), and a Cobra yoloes you, there's a very good chance you'll just die. And any poorly armored MT, LT, TD etc...god, you can say good bye when a Cobra decides to just yolo you. No matter how poorly the Cobra plays, it does so much damage so absurdly fast that it can potentially kill you from full HP in just seconds, even if it means it dying. Or imagine playing a super-heavy, like an E 75 or Type 4, and you get flanked by a Cobra with HESH loaded. You'll likely die before you can ever turn your tank.

 

Now the main difference with the Caliban (which is another terribly designed tank that has a chance to just delete you, just like the Cobra) and the Cobra is that unlike the Caliban, the Cobra doesn't exactly need super, super good RNG to murder you. Sure, it has 4 second aim time, but it has actually really good movement dispersion values (0.14, 0.14 and 0.08). 0.4 fully aimed dispersion isn't great, but it's more than fine at close range, especially when packed with good gun stats, and far, far better than the atrocious 0.6 dispersion the Caliban has. We already know that having good movement dispersion CAN compensate terrible aim time and dispersion (see - the Object 703 II, Bourrasque and the Skoda T56, all completely busted premiums). So when a Cobra gets up close, it'll hit those shots fairly consistently, or at least much, MUCH more consistently than the Caliban ever would. It's fairly slow, but much faster than the Caliban and has good enough engine power and agility to be able to yolo you and completely ruin your game.

 

While I don't know if the Cobra will be overpowered or anything (it has awfully long clip reload, only HEAT aside from HE shells, the gun is likely horrible to use from any distance further than 150 meters, has seemingly no armor, low HP and mediocre mobility), it sure as hell will be extremely unfun to fight against and terrible for the game. No matter how underpowered or overpowered the tank is, being able to delete a full HP tank in just a few seconds is absolutely terrible balancing and shouldn't be a thing. The WT E 100 was removed for a good reason. We don't need another tank that has potential to destroy a full HP tank (a tier higher tank, even) in 4 seconds, no matter how underpowered it is to "compensate". This tank will bring nothing positive to the game, please never introduce it or at least completely rebalance it.

 

The Lorraine 50 T looks pretty fine, though. On paper it's another hulldown heavium, but this one actually has major downsides to compensate (terrible hull armor, huge profile, the gun seems terrible aside from good standard penetration and fully aimed dispersion). It looks very unique and potentially fun without being an absolutely broken mess that is the Cobra. See, you just proved it is still possible to create an unique, potentially a fun tank without having completely minmaxed stats, so why does the Cobra need to be like that?



saxsan4 #15 Posted 30 September 2021 - 01:10 PM

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View Postleggasiini, on 30 September 2021 - 12:07 PM, said:

Its not fun for others. The Cobra looks awfully designed, like REALLY awfully designed. Or fine, you can keep the Cobra like it is, if I can also have a tier 8 Japanese HT premium with 14 cm from the Type 5, and similar magazine to the Chi-Ri, so 3 shells with 1 sec intra. Sure, 1800 damage in 2 seconds wouldn't be fun to fight against, but it would be fun for me, so it's fine, riiiight? :hiding:

 

-------------

 

I thought the Caliban was the epitome of a joke balancing. I really, really expected you wouldn't top it ever. However, the Cobra is absolutely ridiculous and while it technically isn't quite as minmaxed, it looks like it has potential to be much worse for the game (the Caliban at least looks pretty bad and is heavily crippled be atrocious gun stats, so it'll insta delete tanks and ruin games of other players much less consistently). The Cobra can deal 1440 damage in 3.99 seconds. That's 200 more damage than the TVP T50/51, done half a second faster, and a whole tier lower. But no, that's not all - if the Cobra has HESH loaded, it can deal 2060 damage in 3.99 seconds. Over 2000. And with such a HESH pen, it can penetrate any tank from rear or sides with HESH; it can also penetrate most LTs, MTs and even many HTs frontally if it pens a weakspot or something, and reworked HE mechanics make penning those HESH shells even easier. It took 6 seconds for the WT E 100 to deal 2260 damage, which is 50% longer time needed to only deal 200 more damage. Keep in mind that the WT was a tier higher, and was a huge, completely unarmored and slow TD, yet it was still considered to be so poorly designed and impossible to balance so that it had to be removed from the game.

 

The Cobra will be an absolutely nightmare to fight against. If you're playing any MT that isn't fairly heavily armored (talking about an Object 430U or something), and a Cobra yoloes you, there's a very good chance you'll just die. And any poorly armored MT, LT, TD etc...god, you can say good bye when a Cobra decides to just yolo you. No matter how poorly the Cobra plays, it does so much damage so absurdly fast that it can potentially kill you from full HP in just seconds, even if it means it dying. Or imagine playing a super-heavy, like an E 75 or Type 4, and you get flanked by a Cobra with HESH loaded. You'll likely die before you can ever turn your tank.

 

Now the main difference with the Caliban (which is another terribly designed tank that has a chance to just delete you, just like the Cobra) and the Cobra is that unlike the Caliban, the Cobra doesn't exactly need super, super good RNG to murder you. Sure, it has 4 second aim time, but it has actually really good movement dispersion values (0.14, 0.14 and 0.08). 0.4 fully aimed dispersion isn't great, but it's more than fine at close range, especially when packed with good gun stats, and far, far better than the atrocious 0.6 dispersion the Caliban has. We already know that having good movement dispersion CAN compensate terrible aim time and dispersion (see - the Object 703 II, Bourrasque and the Skoda T56, all completely busted premiums). So when a Cobra gets up close, it'll hit those shots fairly consistently, or at least much, MUCH more consistently than the Caliban ever would. It's fairly slow, but much faster than the Caliban and has good enough engine power and agility to be able to yolo you and completely ruin your game.

 

While I don't know if the Cobra will be overpowered or anything (it has awfully long clip reload, only HEAT aside from HE shells, the gun is likely horrible to use from any distance further than 150 meters, has seemingly no armor, low HP and mediocre mobility), it sure as hell will be extremely unfun to fight against and terrible for the game. No matter how underpowered or overpowered the tank is, being able to delete a full HP tank in just a few seconds is absolutely terrible balancing and shouldn't be a thing. The WT E 100 was removed for a good reason. We don't need another tank that has potential to destroy a full HP tank (a tier higher tank, even) in 4 seconds, no matter how underpowered it is to "compensate". This tank will bring nothing positive to the game, please never introduce it or at least completely rebalance it.

 

The Lorraine 50 T looks pretty fine, though. On paper it's another hulldown heavium, but this one actually has major downsides to compensate (terrible hull armor, huge profile, the gun seems terrible aside from good standard penetration and fully aimed dispersion). It looks very unique and potentially fun without being an absolutely broken mess that is the Cobra. See, you just proved it is still possible to create an unique, potentially a fun tank without having completely minmaxed stats, so why does the Cobra need to be like that?


but both Caliban and Cobra are UNIQUE, also I remember people crying that T77 and gsor 1008 would be overpowered and break the game and they never did.

 

Kv2 , m44 much worse for the game than these two with many weekend to make them balanced.

 

Also why should a tank be easy to play against? Maus in +2 mm is the absolute worst to play against, as it should be

12:13 Added after 2 minute
I left positive feedback 

leggasiini #16 Posted 30 September 2021 - 01:43 PM

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View Postsaxsan4, on 30 September 2021 - 02:10 PM, said:


but both Caliban and Cobra are UNIQUE, also I remember people crying that T77 and gsor 1008 would be overpowered and break the game and they never did.

 

The T77 has a much smaller magazine with bad platform and long clip reload. I don't remember people thinking it would be a problem, neither really did I. At one point, it had 5 shells with poorly balanced stats (like super poor standard pen but 290 HEAT or something), which was pretty awful not gonna lie, but ever since WG changed it to a 3 shell autoloader, it seemed pretty whatever to me.

 

The GSOR was absolutely ridiculous with its initial stats (it had much better mobility, 1400 HP, 1.5 second intra clip and generally much better stats all around), it was basically a tier 10 MT as tier 8 TD if you spammed gold with it. It was absolutely gutted afterwards (compared to the initial version that is, its still not a terrible tank or anything), and I feel like most of the complaiments came from the initial statistics that were obviously way too much. That being said, I do think the GSOR is also a pretty poorly designed tank, since it also has potential to delete a full HP tank in just a few seconds and despite being heavily toned down from what it was initially, it's still extremely polarizing. It's just not as nearly as absurd as the Cobra is, which can empty its clip much quicker, and unlike the GSOR (which can only destroy lower tiers and some tier 8s from full HP), the Cobra can kill nearly any same tier vehicle or even higher tiers from full HP. Outside from christmas boxes, the GSOR was only sold once (for only a day if I remember correctly, without any major hurrahs or anything), so it's still a fairly rare sight. If the GSOR was as common as, say, the Skorpion G, it probably would cause more problems. 

 

Being unique isn't always a good thing - the WT E 100 was unique, the pre-nerf Type 5 was unique, test server FV4005 with 50kph top speed was unique, the EBRs are unique, arties are all completely unique if you want to go REALLY far. Nearly all tanks that have caused the most problems have almost always been among the most unique ones. Only recently we have gotten more "generic" tanks that have caused problems, namely the T95/Chieftain and the Obj. 279e. As I already explained, both the Caliban and Cobra could still be unique without having to have so absurdly minmaxed stats like they have now. In their current state, they seem like complete nightmares to balance - like how are you going to make them neither underpowered or overpowered, and when you're somehow made them neither overpowered or underpowered, how do you balance them so that they're not absolutely dreadful to fight against, or absolutely horrible to play? The Cobra seems absolutely terrible to fight against, the Caliban also seems terrible to fight against while likely being absolutely terrible to play as well (for the most people), and both of these tanks are likely going to be either overpowered or underpowered (the Cobra might be "balanced" by technicality but still awfully designed, for the Caliban, I'm leaning towards the latter).

 

With a selection of +600 tanks, it's completely natural that some tanks will be less fun to fight, less fun to play, less good or stronger than others. Having problem cases now and then is basically unavoidable no matter how well you balance the game. However, there's some things that just...shouldn't be ever done. You don't need to give tanks literal insta-kill ability and then terrible everything else to compensate to make them stand out from the +600 other tanks we have in the game. The Lorraine 50T next to the Cobra is a good example - it's different enough to stand out from all other tanks and thus is still an unique vehicle, but unlike the Cobra, it also doesn't have super polarizing stats, so it's far, far less likely to cause balance problems.

 

I already know that putting my thoughts here is a complete waste of time, but meh. I guess it feels good to let steam out now and then.



tajj7 #17 Posted 30 September 2021 - 01:47 PM

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View Postsaxsan4, on 30 September 2021 - 12:10 PM, said:

but both Caliban and Cobra are UNIQUE

 

Irrelevant, they are broken. 



RainMak3r_ #18 Posted 30 September 2021 - 01:59 PM

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4s aiming time 1,33s intraclip, kinda 1head
13:04 Added after 4 minute

View PostDwigt, on 30 September 2021 - 10:26 AM, said:

Commanders,

 

Very soon, two vehicles will be sent to the Supertest:

 

 

just don't, it's that simple



Dexatroph #19 Posted 30 September 2021 - 02:05 PM

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You should look at the dispersion after shot. The 1.3s Intraclip are more like a bait. You will never ever make use of it as with the dispersion  the aim circle will bloom like hell. This combined with 4 sec aiming time will make you wait for like 5 secs before you can give another aimed shot. Not to speak that the tank isnt mobile enough for fast runs with its 40km/h. Its for sure a unique vehicle with a very special play style, but its not mine and I dont think its good tank either.

 

The Lorr50t on the other hand looks good enough to be candidat for the holiday ops boxes. Its good for its mobility, strong turret, accurate gun and -10°, but has a horrible dpm for Tier9 Heavy. So that tank has strenths that it makes good for specific plays, but has also has substantial downsites. 


Edited by Dexatroph, 30 September 2021 - 02:07 PM.


Puszka_Drynia #20 Posted 30 September 2021 - 02:13 PM

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I prefer when newly added autoloaders have 4 seconds intraclip.





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