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Lorraine 50 t and Cobra on the Supertest

Supertest TierIX

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Thejagdpanther #21 Posted 30 September 2021 - 02:19 PM

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hey look! another toxic idiotproof autoloader!

aaah perfect, what the game just need.

 

So can i have back my wte100? ofc with smaller turret and the orignal gun


Edited by Thejagdpanther, 30 September 2021 - 02:24 PM.


RainMak3r_ #22 Posted 30 September 2021 - 02:38 PM

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View PostThejagdpanther, on 30 September 2021 - 02:19 PM, said:

hey look! another toxic idiotproof autoloader!

aaah perfect, what the game just need.

 

So can i have back my wte100? ofc with smaller turret and the orignal gun

actually wt wouldn't be too op in this current hulldown meta, and definitely it wouldn't appear too much op when compared to the cobra


Edited by RainMak3r_, 30 September 2021 - 03:00 PM.


WaryShadow #23 Posted 30 September 2021 - 02:42 PM

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Great more tier 9's Just [edited]up the MM more why dont you, Hell make our tier 8 premiums obsolete what a great business practice completely piss off the players that pay.

snowlywhite #24 Posted 30 September 2021 - 03:40 PM

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for Pete's sake - fire the guy who proposed caliban/cobra.

 

I'm all for 2nd chances and crap. But the guy's way beyond hopeless...



wAr_God_11 #25 Posted 30 September 2021 - 03:58 PM

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Soo, i can expect them in this years Christmas boxes ?:popcorn:

Galaxy_class #26 Posted 30 September 2021 - 03:59 PM

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View PostDexatroph, on 30 September 2021 - 02:05 PM, said:

You should look at the dispersion after shot. The 1.3s Intraclip are more like a bait. You will never ever make use of it as with the dispersion  the aim circle will bloom like hell. This combined with 4 sec aiming time will make you wait for like 5 secs before you can give another aimed shot. Not to speak that the tank isnt mobile enough for fast runs with its 40km/h. Its for sure a unique vehicle with a very special play style, but its not mine and I dont think its good tank either.

 

The Lorr50t on the other hand looks good enough to be candidat for the holiday ops boxes. Its good for its mobility, strong turret, accurate gun and -10°, but has a horrible dpm for Tier9 Heavy. So that tank has strenths that it makes good for specific plays, but has also has substantial downsites. 

 

That's the problem though. With poor accuracy and poor mobility to escape after unloading, some people are just going to yolo in, do 2000 damage to someone in the side and then just die. It's just more RNG but in tank form.



BlackBloodBandit #27 Posted 30 September 2021 - 04:12 PM

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View PostDwigt, on 30 September 2021 - 10:26 AM, said:

Survey links for additional feedback below!

Cobra > https://forms.office.com/r/bueFSEkntd

Lorraine 50 t > https://forms.office.com/r/ax5GMZzwHt

Great idea to give the chance to answer to a survey! I rated both tanks and if you will give the chance to do this to other new tanks I will for sure share my opinion on them!

 

Personally I think the 50T is too strong. That firepower is good enough, but then again combined with too strong armor (lower plate is no weak-spot and cupola is small) and 60 km/h top speed (on paper though) is too much if you ask me.

Both tanks are not fun to play against, in my opinion.

The Cobra has huge downsides, like the aim time, but the intra-clip is too short I think. 2 seconds would be fine. Also the top speed is not enough in comparison for the fact is has no armor. You will need to play it a lot different then a Batchat for example, but more like a close range Char Futur 4.



wAr_God_11 #28 Posted 30 September 2021 - 04:19 PM

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all those paper tanks at tier 8 and above, dead in less then 5 seconds, big brain kek.
15:20 Added after 1 minute

View PostGalaxy_class, on 30 September 2021 - 03:59 PM, said:

 

That's the problem though. With poor accuracy and poor mobility to escape after unloading, some people are just going to yolo in, do 2000 damage to someone in the side and then just die. It's just more RNG but in tank form.

just like with the Czech heavies.


Edited by wAr_God_11, 30 September 2021 - 04:30 PM.


arthurwellsley #29 Posted 30 September 2021 - 05:32 PM

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View PostDwigt, on 30 September 2021 - 09:26 AM, said:

Commanders,

 

Very soon, two vehicles will be sent to the Supertest:

The Tier IX French Lorraine 50 t Heavy tank.

The Tier IX British Cobra Medium tank.

lorraine50t_EN.jpg  COBRA_EN.jpg

 

Despite its name, the Lorraine 50 t looks very different to its younger brother, the Lorraine 40 t. The main difference is the large turret that carries the 120 mm gun. It has a damage per shot of 400 HP, an aiming time of 3 s, and a dispersion at 100 m of 0.33. Its standard AP shell penetrates 264 mm of armor, while the penetration of its special APCR shell is 308 mm.

The vehicle is well-protected in the frontal projection, and the turret armor reaches 250 mm. The vehicle has 1,900 hit points. It has a top speed of 60 km/h, a specific power of 18.2 h.p/t, and a view range of 400 m.

 

The British Cobra is strikingly different from the French. It has a 120 mm gun with a 4-shell magazine that takes 50 seconds to reload, while the time between shots is 1.33 seconds. The standard HEAT shell penetrates 268 mm of armor and deals 360 HP of damage, while the special HE shell penetrates 219 mm of armor and deals 515 HP of damage. The vehicle features an aiming time of 4 s, and a dispersion at 100 m of 0.4.

 

It should be noted that the vehicle doesn't have much to boast in terms of protection. In the frontal projection, the thickness of the armor plates reaches 130 mm. It has a top speed of 40 km/h, a specific power of 18.4 h.p/t, and a view range of 400 m.

 

Both vehicles behave very differently in battle, offering very different gameplay. The Lorraine 50 t has an accurate gun, is moderately dynamic, and is quite versatile and comfortable to operate. The Cobra has the ability to cause massive damage in close combat. Of course, each of them has its own weaknesses, but the understanding their strengths will allow you to get the most out of both vehicles.

 

Survey links for additional feedback below!

Cobra > https://forms.office.com/r/bueFSEkntd

Lorraine 50 t > https://forms.office.com/r/ax5GMZzwHt

 

 

Additional stats:

 

 

When I thought the Caliban was already absolutely horrendously designed in every way, WG decided to step in and introduce a Caliban 2.0 only a month later. What the f*ck.

 

When you think about it, the Cobra is actually very similar to the Caliban in many ways. Both are extremely polarizing tanks with awfully minmaxed stats that seem mediocre to outright bad in 90-95% of aspects, but have the potential to absolutely cripple the opposing player in just seconds. The main difference with the Cobra and Caliban is that while the Cobra still has awful gun stats and is seemingly awful in every other situation than the one very specific moment its good at, the Cobra doesn't need absurd amounts of RNG to ruin someone's game, like the Caliban (likely) needs.

 

This tank can literally delete almost any tier 9 or even many tier 10s in just 3.99 seconds from full HP. No matter how underpowered, a tank like that should never exist. The WT E100 caused problems, the FV4005 has caused problems, and this tank will almost certainly cause problems too, especially if they don't make it absurdly hard to obtain or something.

 

Like why does the Cobra need such an absurdly minmaxed magazine to be unique? You could still make it very unique without having to make it so laughably poorly designed that it's only asking to cause some major balance problems. For starters, there aren't even that many autoloader mediums at tier 9. You got the Skoda T50, the Batchat AP and the Char Futur, and then the Standard B with an autoreloader. That's only 4 vehicles. It's also the only high tier British MT with an autoloader, and the only tier 9 autoloading medium with a 120 mm gun (even if the alpha damage isn't typical for a 120 mm gun). When you consider all that, the Cobra would already be unique with just those traits, it wouldn't have to be anything crazy otherwise. I'd say that simply having "autoloader and HESH shells" would already make it very unique and completely different from...anything we have in the game, really. You could give it like 3 shell autoloader, with 3 second intra clip reload or something, and it would still be very unique, while also not being not even close as terribly designed as it is now (and likely more fun to play, too; honestly the Cobra in its current state doesn't really seem that fun to play with either). It could either deal around 1k damage with standard shells, or it could load HESH shells and potentially cause 1400-1500 damage if it penetrates all the shells. 1500 damage in ~6 seconds is still a high amount of damage, but nothing unreasonably high (given tanks like the T54E1 and AMX 50 120 exists at tier 9), while having, far, far more balanced magazine as result.

 

The worst thing about the Cobra is that there's actually a chance it'll be a tier 9 premium that any idiot could buy for money, or it could even be in the christmas boxes, who knows. I really hope that both it and the Caliban gets completely reworked before implemented, because they really not needed in their current state. The Caliban has already made it to in-game files, so chances for it to get reworked are slimmer, but there's hoping that at least the Cobra gets completely changed.



simhub #30 Posted 30 September 2021 - 05:46 PM

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View PostDexatroph, on 30 September 2021 - 01:05 PM, said:

You should look at the dispersion after shot. The 1.3s Intraclip are more like a bait. You will never ever make use of it as with the dispersion  the aim circle will bloom like hell. This combined with 4 sec aiming time will make you wait for like 5 secs before you can give another aimed shot. Not to speak that the tank isnt mobile enough for fast runs with its 40km/h. Its for sure a unique vehicle with a very special play style, but its not mine and I dont think its good tank either.

 

The Cobra will need 6.6s to fully aim after firing a shot, so yes the 1.3s intra-clip time is absolute bait unless you're at point blank range.



Desyatnik_Pansy #31 Posted 30 September 2021 - 06:05 PM

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View Postsimhub, on 30 September 2021 - 05:46 PM, said:

The Cobra will need 6.6s to fully aim after firing a shot, so yes the 1.3s intra-clip time is absolute bait unless you're at point blank range.

 

Tbh that just means Cobra players will yolo and facehug people just to guarantee all their shots pen, and we all know how fun getting yolo'd by an autoloader is, especially one that can put out so much damage in such a short time. It's gonna be another perfect case of a tank that's not going to be particularly fun to play or play against. 



WEHRABOO_PAWAH #32 Posted 01 October 2021 - 06:26 AM

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WG, stop with that prem autoloader spam, it looks like you guys are turning high tiers into World of Autoloaders :facepalm:

Misago #33 Posted 01 October 2021 - 08:35 AM

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Terrible gun handling and low ammo count on that cobra, together with ridiculous burst damage. WHat is the point of this tank? You are basically rolling the dice if this thing is going to be frustrating to play, or frustrating to play against. If you meet something unarmored at close range, you're gonna murder them. If you end up in a meta fight (hulldown heavies with tiny weakspots) you're going to get murdered. And please, please, please, stop with the damn autoloader powercreep.

 

Also, can we finally get the "this vehicle's stats can be adjusted" disclaimer for new premium tanks that World of Warships gets? I am sick of overtuned premiums getting released and no one being able to do anything about it, except release even more broken premiums. It's like that rat-snake-mongoose problem.



saxsan4 #34 Posted 01 October 2021 - 12:09 PM

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View PostMisago, on 01 October 2021 - 07:35 AM, said:

Terrible gun handling and low ammo count on that cobra, together with ridiculous burst damage. WHat is the point of this tank? You are basically rolling the dice if this thing is going to be frustrating to play, or frustrating to play against. If you meet something unarmored at close range, you're gonna murder them. If you end up in a meta fight (hulldown heavies with tiny weakspots) you're going to get murdered. And please, please, please, stop with the damn autoloader powercreep.

 

Also, can we finally get the "this vehicle's stats can be adjusted" disclaimer for new premium tanks that World of Warships gets? I am sick of overtuned premiums getting released and no one being able to do anything about it, except release even more broken premiums. It's like that rat-snake-mongoose problem.


no, I buy tanks I dont want their stats changed



upliftedDevil #35 Posted 01 October 2021 - 12:49 PM

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It does'nt matter that it has 5 sec aim or whatever, it comes down to that it will ruin some1s game, from time to time, when it catches you pants down in close quarters. That's all. It is not mega op tank, but it will sure be nasty in certain situations. Like ISU152 for example, high rolls u and say goodbye to half of hit points of tier 8 or 9, or 1shots tier 6 that can meet.. It does not make it super strong tank but its annoying as f. I am against it if any1 cares. And that Lorr also, with that speed and that turret armor, and all the hulldown meta..it will not be fun..

Misago #36 Posted 01 October 2021 - 02:11 PM

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View PostupliftedDevil, on 01 October 2021 - 11:49 AM, said:

It does'nt matter that it has 5 sec aim or whatever, it comes down to that it will ruin some1s game, from time to time, when it catches you pants down in close quarters. That's all. It is not mega op tank, but it will sure be nasty in certain situations. Like ISU152 for example, high rolls u and say goodbye to half of hit points of tier 8 or 9, or 1shots tier 6 that can meet.. It does not make it super strong tank but its annoying as f. I am against it if any1 cares. And that Lorr also, with that speed and that turret armor, and all the hulldown meta..it will not be fun..

 

Thats the annoying thing. In most cases, this thing will be meh because of the horrible gun handling. It's like the only point of this tank is to get into those situations where it gets lucky, and then it will be incredibly frustrating for the player on the receiving end.

 

View Postsaxsan4, on 01 October 2021 - 11:09 AM, said:


no, I buy tanks I dont want their stats changed

 

Yes, but no offense, but you are the kind of player that WG is catering to, and making the game worse for it.



saxsan4 #37 Posted 01 October 2021 - 05:51 PM

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View PostMisago, on 01 October 2021 - 01:11 PM, said:

 

Thats the annoying thing. In most cases, this thing will be meh because of the horrible gun handling. It's like the only point of this tank is to get into those situations where it gets lucky, and then it will be incredibly frustrating for the player on the receiving end.

 

 

Yes, but no offense, but you are the kind of player that WG is catering to, and making the game worse for it.


game is better in my view



tajj7 #38 Posted 05 October 2021 - 11:04 AM

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View PostRainMak3r_, on 30 September 2021 - 01:38 PM, said:

actually wt wouldn't be too op in this current hulldown meta, and definitely it wouldn't appear too much op when compared to the cobra

 

It wouldn't be OP but it would still be broken to all hell, its the same with the FVs, the tanks are so limited and min/maxed that people just play them constantly behind a rock, usually camping at the back and only engage when they have a favourable shot. 

 

It's tank like that, that stop the hull down meta being flanked, because people can't take any risks against tanks that can one shot them or clip them from full HP in a short space of time, and when you have these tanks on your team they are useless because they will just hide most of the game and only really have value when most of the team is dead and people are pushing them. 



leggasiini #39 Posted 05 October 2021 - 11:51 AM

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View Posttajj7, on 05 October 2021 - 12:04 PM, said:

 

It wouldn't be OP but it would still be broken to all hell, its the same with the FVs, the tanks are so limited and min/maxed that people just play them constantly behind a rock, usually camping at the back and only engage when they have a favourable shot. 

 

It's tank like that, that stop the hull down meta being flanked, because people can't take any risks against tanks that can one shot them or clip them from full HP in a short space of time, and when you have these tanks on your team they are useless because they will just hide most of the game and only really have value when most of the team is dead and people are pushing them. 

 

WT E 100 would probably be bad in the current meta, if anything. Maps are far more corridory, there's far more tanks with large burst damage that can kill it faster when it gets focused (which is always), generally the powerlevel is significantly higher, and everything has much, much stronger armor to the point where the WT E 100 wouldn't be able to autopen everything it sees anymore, even with APCR. Back in a day nothing could reliably bounce 350 APCR other than the IS-7 hulldown, now there's...quite a lot of stuff that can do that when hulldown. That still doesn't mean the WT E 100 should come back, though - it would still be utterly broken and terribly designed. A lot of people forget that "broken" isn't the same thing as "overpowered". Arties are still broken, even if most of them are outright underpowered right now. Similarly, the WT E 100 would still be broken (assuming it wouldn't get massively reworked), even if it was the worst tier 10 in the game.

 

The Cobra is a similar case. It doesn't look good at all to me, let alone overpowered, but it's still extremely broken by design. In the Cobra's strongest situation (up close, fighting a lone target), it'll either destroy anything that isn't most of tier 10 heavies from full HP in just seconds and probably die afterwards, or it'll do little to no damage and probably die afterwards. In every other situation, it'll most likely range from anything between "mediocre" and "outright gigatrash". It looks both terrible to play with, and even more terrible to play against. All it does is ruin someone's game now and then, and most players playing the Cobra most likely won't have fun at all 90% of the time, either. It's fun for almost nobody.







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