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AMX 13 90 Matchmaking


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ghostlyfire #21 Posted 07 February 2012 - 07:17 AM

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Life of the 13 90 aint easy butsure fun as hell.

What an average amx 13 90 do in a t10 game (like me)

1. U wait
2. U load 6 shells with 170 avg pen and 240 avg dmg (takes around 39.something seconds)
3. U wait some more then

When enemy vehicles are engaged in battle with friendly vehicles:
4. U go
5. Find arty
6. Kill arty/ies
7. Reload while running away, breathing heavily, screaming (since there are at least from 2 to 6 tanks shootingat u, easy explainable u killed their beloved arty/ies)
8. Wait to dissapear from enemy radars (still breathing heavily with a nasty smile on yer face, after all u are survivor with prolly around 3 frags so far)
9. Finish off whats left of the reds.

Profit :)

Cobra6 #22 Posted 07 February 2012 - 09:09 AM

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View Postazakow, on 07 February 2012 - 06:42 AM, said:

My battle experience is AMX 13 90 only. IMO the scenario you describe, perfect for this tank.

What about your metrics for the successfull AMX 13 commander?
Appling this turns "unfavourable" into "advantageous", because vultures seldom attack healthy animals, but may kill the wounded or sick.

In order get to such a situation in battle ASAP, it is necessary to think about "4) This tank is not a scout.", since you can't apart the LT/MT hybrid nature of this tank.
Maybe on the AMX 13 75, but not on the AMX 13 90.

Funny that you link to my own post :D But that was the tactic with the AMX75 for me, however it does not seem to work very well for the AMX90 due to it's insane reload time. The AMX75 reloads fast enough for it to work. I think I have to come up with a new tactic for the AMX90.

Cobra 6

Vahal #23 Posted 07 February 2012 - 01:13 PM

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the reload time problem is that a lot of time you see allies who died cause you cant help them and of course they blame you cause you did nothing (you couldnt) I personnaly try to ditract an IS4 who was raping two of our tank a T29 and an ISU without the deathray gun I started to turn around it and when it saw I didnt fire it kept eating alive the two allies who blamed me to not doing my job... I have clip reload after the IS4 killed the T29  <_<  so the AMX makes you look like a selfish abstard who want the target for only you while in fact I would be really happy to help my teammates but had no possibility to do that except interposing my tank... and, it's out of question due to the modules damages.

Running at the arty is really risky. usually keeped by several tanks, it's a good way to be tracked and be the guest star of the incoming slug fest.

lavaboy #24 Posted 31 March 2012 - 11:29 PM

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View PostTheIcelandicOne, on 20 January 2012 - 07:25 PM, said:

... The thing about it though, the matchmaker thinks its a tier 8 tank ...

This exactly ^

Played too many games now where one team, usually ours (at least that i notice) has a couple of AMX 13 90's matched against tier 8 heavies like IS-3 and KT.

This is complete bollocks, and virtually guarantees the matchmaker decides the winning team.

I don't see any reason to match them so highly, they're a good tank yes, but come on.. this needs to be fixed pronto.

Shortcake #25 Posted 01 April 2012 - 12:00 AM

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View PostFedajkin1989, on 21 January 2012 - 12:13 AM, said:

Get camo net and crew skill,


i find gun laying drive, camo and bins are good.

Shortcake #26 Posted 01 April 2012 - 12:02 AM

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View PostCobra6, on 07 February 2012 - 09:09 AM, said:

... The AMX75 reloads fast enough for it to work. I think I have to come up with a new tactic for the AMX90.

Cobra 6

i agree, I've kept my elited 75, its a funky little tank - I probably wont the 90

Formers #27 Posted 11 April 2012 - 11:17 AM

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i have been in those kind of battle with my AMX 13 75, i have seen AMX 13 90 destroy E-100s and IS-7s..!!
:unsure:

evanortukk #28 Posted 13 April 2012 - 02:21 AM

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If you know what the AMX13 90 does with a Tier VII Heavy, you won't like to see it as Top Tank in a Tier VII Battle unless you are driving it yourself. Especially because 80-90 % of your competitiors would be Tier IV to VI and therefore a waste of your reloading time.

Trobby #29 Posted 14 April 2012 - 03:43 AM

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Actually, the 13 90 and 13 75's MM are quite similar. Only with 13 90, you will never be thrown into a tier 7 top battle where as in a 13 75, you can.

Once you've elited the 13 90 (Except for the Lorraine tank research), you'll start to understand why MM is so strict for it - The ability to out-manever a lone tier 9 heavy and take away 75% of its HP. It's not something that you can do with the 13 75.

Also, with 13 75, you can never ever hurt a Maus, even at the weak spots and at the rear side. But with 13 90, you can do it quite easily.

Paavopesusieni #30 Posted 14 April 2012 - 07:35 AM

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If AMX 13 90 starts getting into lower tier games all the time then it needs huge speed and agility nerf. So choose, pretty sure many people like playing that in high tiers.

Evilsod #31 Posted 15 April 2012 - 12:16 PM

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View PostTrobby, on 14 April 2012 - 03:43 AM, said:

Actually, the 13 90 and 13 75's MM are quite similar. Only with 13 90, you will never be thrown into a tier 7 top battle where as in a 13 75, you can.

Once you've elited the 13 90 (Except for the Lorraine tank research), you'll start to understand why MM is so strict for it - The ability to out-manever a lone tier 9 heavy and take away 75% of its HP. It's not something that you can do with the 13 75.

Also, with 13 75, you can never ever hurt a Maus, even at the weak spots and at the rear side. But with 13 90, you can do it quite easily.

Huh? I got behind a Maus yesterday, shooting at the flat sections on the rear of the turret and hull and bounced every single shot of a full clip. The weak point in the rear of the turret is too small to hit with your tanks crap accuracy and the Maus moving around and the flat part on the hull just didn't seem weak enough. Even if I fired straight on with as little angle as possible I couldn't deal any damage.

Scotia #32 Posted 15 April 2012 - 02:24 PM

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I killed a maus on 10% with 1 shot straight up its ass at point blank range :)

As for longer reload time on amx90, ur fast enough to relocate to the other side of the map, by time you get there u have reloaded and got more damaged tanks to kill, works better on open maps ofc :)

Nixouf #33 Posted 15 April 2012 - 02:40 PM

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View PostVVere, on 20 January 2012 - 07:33 PM, said:

2) Are you fucking kidding me? I've seen more than one AMX 13 90 rape an E-75 who got caught in the open for more than 50% of his health. Do you want to kill Tier9 heavy tanks in one salvo? <_<


What you failed to understand is that the only thing important to matchmaking is Battletier not the tier.

Amx 13 90 has a battletier of a tier8/tier9 tank. Which means it's treated nearly as of the same weight as a Batchat, more weight than a Lorraine.

Which is objectively totally unfair.


And YES it should be able to kill a tier8/tier9 tank on a 50/50 basis, since it has as much matchmaking weight.


OP is actually consistent in his rant. This should be corrected. If Batchat is tier 9, Amx shouldn't be tier 8.5

Evilsod #34 Posted 15 April 2012 - 03:18 PM

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View PostTrobby, on 14 April 2012 - 03:43 AM, said:

Actually, the 13 90 and 13 75's MM are quite similar. Only with 13 90, you will never be thrown into a tier 7 top battle where as in a 13 75, you can.

Once you've elited the 13 90 (Except for the Lorraine tank research), you'll start to understand why MM is so strict for it - The ability to out-manever a lone tier 9 heavy and take away 75% of its HP. It's not something that you can do with the 13 75.

IS-3/4 seem to bounce half the shots I fire at it from the side/rear. The rear tends to be penetrated the most but they turn pretty damn fast so unless you knock out the driver, engine or turret, they can turn there hull and turret together and catch you up most of the time. Yes you *can* take off 75% of a tanks health even at T9 but it never happens. Between bounces, crits and misses you'll be lucky if 2 or 3 of your shots go through.

I understand what you mean though. Round I was just in on Redshire, 2 E-75s made a push down by the hill at B8, the first E-75 spent his time trying to shoot the E-100 since he obviously didn't notice me, got tracked and got 6 penetrating shells in the side, the last 1 ammo racking it for the rest of its health. The other saw how much damage his ally was taking, shot me once and fled. In close quarters though you rarely get more than half your shots penetrating and if you do, chances are you took a while between shells to make sure you hit a weaker spot which lowers your dps and shock value. Except against tanks with gigantic 'shoot here' flat surfaces like the Ferdi and JagdTiger  <_<

KillaP #35 Posted 15 April 2012 - 04:09 PM

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In my opinion: If it takes the place of a tier 8 tank - with current MM it does - it is a tier 8. Just that easy.  ;)

Lets see what an elite AMX-1390 truly is, stat-wise. Its an elite AMX-1375 (tier 6) with the following additions:

+350 hit points
+ 50 h.p. engine power
+  1,49t load limit
+  3 km/h speed limit
+ 20 m view range
+ 26 mm average penetration (90mm gun)
+105 average damage with AP shells (someone using HE or Gold shells ?????)
-  less accuracy at 100m, higher aiming and reload time (within the drum and switching the drum)

So, speed and agility wise it is not a great improvement. (same traverse speed)

The huge leap from tier 6 to tier 8 is mostly because of the tier 7 gun which is 10mm average penetration short of Pershings tier 8 gun.
(Typ59s "only" gun has almost the same penetration and damage as 1390s gun!)

As for the 1390 being able to kill T9/10 tanks...
...there has to be a lot of "skill" AND "luck" involved to kill an IS4/E-100/Maus/object704... (1 on 1),
because it depends on being able to "park and aim" (I want to see a replay where an 1390 scores on those tanks "repeatedly" "while driving" and them not being distracted otherwise),
the internal "dice" have to be in your favour regarding average penetration (-25% up to +25% difference),
the enemy being not able to move - any angle will most likely end in not penetrating them.

Actually, I have enough problems with killing a 100% Typ59 with one 6 shell drum on a 1 on 1,
because only a stupid/otherwise occupied (maybe even AFK) Typ59 will show you his back the whole time.
Front is so bouncy and sides/tracks might just eat your shell with no damage and if you miss/bounce/0%-damage just once you have to run and come back later...if there is a later.

Kalann #36 Posted 17 April 2012 - 03:08 PM

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Pre the nerfs the 13-90 was balanced, except when operating in wolf packs, it was treated to the same MM value as a tier 8 heavy, which one on one, it will not rape..

Since the nerfs it still gets treated the same, but will now struggle against a tier 8 med 1 on one, but still gets treated as higher MM value than a type etc.

1 on 1 v my pershing, could i win in my 13-90? Well it would boil down to luck.. one bounce of eaten shot and the 13-90 will lose, and given the number of eaten shots, zero damage penetrating shots and wierd bounces happening these days, the AMX has gone from being good, to being very average. other than in wolf packs, if the enemy is silly enough to split up significantly



Kalann #37 Posted 17 April 2012 - 03:12 PM

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View PostKillaP, on 15 April 2012 - 04:09 PM, said:

In my opinion: If it takes the place of a tier 8 tank - with current MM it does - it is a tier 8. Just that easy.  ;)

Lets see what an elite AMX-1390 truly is, stat-wise. Its an elite AMX-1375 (tier 6) with the following additions:

+350 hit points
+ 50 h.p. engine power
+  1,49t load limit
+  3 km/h speed limit
+ 20 m view range
+ 26 mm average penetration (90mm gun)
+105 average damage with AP shells (someone using HE or Gold shells ?????)
-  less accuracy at 100m, higher aiming and reload time (within the drum and switching the drum)

So, speed and agility wise it is not a great improvement. (same traverse speed)

The huge leap from tier 6 to tier 8 is mostly because of the tier 7 gun which is 10mm average penetration short of Pershings tier 8 gun.
(Typ59s "only" gun has almost the same penetration and damage as 1390s gun!)

As for the 1390 being able to kill T9/10 tanks...
...there has to be a lot of "skill" AND "luck" involved to kill an IS4/E-100/Maus/object704... (1 on 1),
because it depends on being able to "park and aim" (I want to see a replay where an 1390 scores on those tanks "repeatedly" "while driving" and them not being distracted otherwise),
the internal "dice" have to be in your favour regarding average penetration (-25% up to +25% difference),
the enemy being not able to move - any angle will most likely end in not penetrating them.

Actually, I have enough problems with killing a 100% Typ59 with one 6 shell drum on a 1 on 1,
because only a stupid/otherwise occupied (maybe even AFK) Typ59 will show you his back the whole time.
Front is so bouncy and sides/tracks might just eat your shell with no damage and if you miss/bounce/0%-damage just once you have to run and come back later...if there is a later.

Quoting the AP of the 13-90's gun as a reason for it being treated as a tier 8 heavy for MM purposes is franly silly, when you consider it has less AP than any tier 7 heavy and comparable to any tier 7 med, or in the case of the russians, even the tier 6 med.

What made the AMX very good in skilled hands, was the ability to get behind things and unload a can of hurt before dissapearing.

However i dont care how good that wolf pack of AMX's and Type's are, 1 IS4 well played can happily defend against them and rape them as long as it has the sense to put its arse against the wall. I've personally raped 3 AMX13-90's and 3 Type 59's solo at the same time in my IS4, yes the IS4 was utterly knackered afterwards, but I killed all 6 and still capped for thw win.

Evilsod #38 Posted 17 April 2012 - 05:40 PM

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Indeed. You can usually tell the more experienced heavy drivers and they usually cripple you before you run off with your tail between your legs. An IS-4 just needs to angle itself slightly against a wall and you can only scratch the paintwork. Turning the hull and turret together its virtually impossible to circle it fast enough. Aiming at the tracks is a waste of bloody ammo since it never seems to do anything to the bigger USSR/German heavies. Last game I bounced off the REAR of a T-54. I could see the scratch mark, I was at a slight angle but the shot hit the flat surface and still bounced.

For the most part, attempting to attack anything T8+ that isn't already damaged will probably fail. Jagdtiger and Ferdi you can pull it off easily thanks to the giant 'shoot her' flat surfaces but heavies tend to bounce or 'absorb' too many shots. If you get lucky you might set it on fire or ammo rack it to make up for some of it. You can still be a force to be reckoned with and pick up lots of kills and damage but they are almost always down to the enemies mistakes and you capitalising on them. People just like bitching about the tank been overpowered because it caught them off guard and they don't want to admit they made a mistake.

KillaP #39 Posted 17 April 2012 - 08:56 PM

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View PostKalann, on 17 April 2012 - 03:12 PM, said:

Quoting the AP of the 13-90's gun as a reason for it being treated as a tier 8 heavy for MM purposes is franly silly, when you consider it has less AP than any tier 7 heavy and comparable to any tier 7 med, or in the case of the russians, even the tier 6 med.

What made the AMX very good in skilled hands, was the ability to get behind things and unload a can of hurt before dissapearing.

...

Well technically, I did not compare it to T8 heavys.  ;)

Actually, it does not matter if AMX-1390's are matched against T8 heavys or T8 mediums, both are T8.
T8 mediums are constantly matched against T8 heavys as are T9 mediums against T9 heavys. They have got basically the same MM value within their tier!

Compare AMX-1390s 90mm gun against T8 medium guns and it makes more sense.  :)

See it this way, heavys do usually have better guns then same tier mediums (except tier 8 French tanks  <_< ), therefore mediums are more agile.
The AMX13-90 "light tank" is even more agile then T8 mediums and consequently got the "adequate" (almost T8 medium) gun.

AMX-1390 might not need the same T7 heavy or T8 medium "high penetration" gun, because - as you said yourselve - it can easily flank or even get behind the enemy and kick arse with the ~240 damage/shell!   :Smile-playing: )  

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to defend the developers for what they have done, just trying to see/imagine their reasoning.

:Smile_honoring:

Schaap #40 Posted 18 April 2012 - 07:07 PM

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This is a fantastic tank, truly my favorite. Avg xp of 1015 after 150 battles, max xp of 2728. With no other tanks i've even gotten close to that max, more around the 2250/1500 mark, with 13/90 i've already hit it three times.
I see people complaining here about how you can't penetrate the front of other tanks or how you can't reliable 1v1 another tier 8 med, but that's just not what this tank is all about. It's a support tank, plain and simple. You've got to find some cannonmeat to follow, wait till he's distracting the enemy and then shoot a couple of shells in its side or rear before you retreat. Rinse and repeat. Making it even more easy is the fact that alot of players won't pay attention to you, seeing as you're so hard to hit

And it becomes an absolute monster in the second part of a match. Find a td by itself, rape him. Find a heavy by itself with max 1000 hp, rape him. Find anything not aiming at you, rape him.

Only downside since 7.2 is the aiming time nerf. It used to be fine with -10% aiming time equipment, you could snipe at practically the time it took to reload, but now you have to take another half a second or so. But that isn't unreasonable imo.




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