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Lorraine gun choice 100mm or 90mm?


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Poll: Lorraine gun choice 100mm or 90mm? (351 members have cast votes)

You have to complete 250 battles in order to participate this poll.

Which gun do you equip?

  1. 90mm Fires faster, shells cheaper, damage and penetration acceptable. (131 votes [37.32%])

    Percentage of vote: 37.32%

  2. 100mm Has downsides but is superior weapon and worth the credits. (220 votes [62.68%])

    Percentage of vote: 62.68%

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trispect #41 Posted 06 February 2012 - 04:51 PM

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View PostNixouf, on 05 February 2012 - 11:40 PM, said:

They are not pointless at all, with the new suspension and engines the lorraine is twice more agile and feels like a small AMX. By far the biggest noticeable difference for all french barillets in speed/agility upgrades is the Lorraine IMO.

However i think the 100mm should be researched first. Keep in mind however that without new suspension you can hardly fit the 100mm + additional modules

I wrote that bit badly. I meant that there's really no need to research all the engines first IF you want BatChat as fast as possible. Even with the first engine update Lorraine is pretty good, next two are just nice to have and ofc will help on hilly terrain etc.

Radical626 #42 Posted 07 February 2012 - 10:49 AM

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View Posttavychevsky, on 05 February 2012 - 07:44 AM, said:

I've researched the Bat.Chatillon but I'm keeping my Lorraine for the fun of playing in platoon with my friends, and playing in platoon, makes all the drawbacks of 100mm cannon disappear, since you may alternate the fire with another Lorraine or be protected while reloading by the other T8 mediums you are platooned with.


Screw that get in company battles and 3 of you can wipe out 2 heavies before one of you dies!

posthumecaver #43 Posted 09 February 2012 - 11:00 AM

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214 mm penetration for tier 8 med is more then enough, it reloads faster between the shots, it reloads the magazine faster....

I grinded to BatChat with 100 mm but after I bought the BatChat I kept the Lorraine in my garage but switch to 90 mm, I can say, I am heapier with, for test purposes I switch back for 2 games to 100mm but no, after 90mm it felt too sluggish....

As I said as Tier 8 med gun it is enough, Panther II has 200mm pen, T-44 175mm, M26 180mm (or so), if u flank people u can penetrate everything and u should flank people with Lorraine...

Fruzzle #44 Posted 11 February 2012 - 12:51 PM

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Bouncing of is4 sides is a **** in AMX1390, I think I will go straight to 100 mm gun because it gives more battlefield options. :Smile_honoring:

TrackLord #45 Posted 11 February 2012 - 05:20 PM

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The 90mm you can research on the Lorraine (DCA 45) is better than the one on the amx 90 (F3) which is the Lorraines stock gun. It is that better 90mm gun that this poll refers to.

I would still bounce off sides of IS4 with the 100mm, but it does pen more often than the 90mm and alot more than the amx 90 gun.

posthumecaver #46 Posted 11 February 2012 - 05:23 PM

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View PostFruzzle, on 11 February 2012 - 12:51 PM, said:

Bouncing of is4 sides is a **** in AMX1390, I think I will go straight to 100 mm gun because it gives more battlefield options. :Smile_honoring:

Lorraine and 13t90 doesn't have the same 90mm, if I am not wrong 13t has 170mm pen, Lorraine's 90m  is 214....

Tox23 #47 Posted 15 February 2012 - 09:17 AM

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It is a difficult choice. It's pure fun to unload a clip of 100mm grenades on an enemy but the 49sec reload can be very very long. I'm much more flexible with the 90mm gun and its reload. All in all both are great guns.

azakow #48 Posted 15 February 2012 - 09:32 AM

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View Postposthumecaver, on 11 February 2012 - 05:23 PM, said:

Lorraine and 13t90 doesn't have the same 90mm, if I am not wrong 13t has 170mm pen, Lorraine's 90m  is 214....
You are wrong. The stock gun for Lorrain is the top gun of AMX 13 90, as always.
Spoiler                     

View PostTrackLord, on 25 January 2012 - 01:24 AM, said:

One major factor is credits. I make about 3k credits profit per battle on average with 90mm and 3k credits loss on average with the 100mm. Over the 300 more battles I expect to fight in this tank that is nearly 2 million credits. Quite alot for 20mm extra pen, 60 hp more per shot but slower reload. Anyone gone back to the lower tier gun?
70 battle samples of 112 battles in total.
At about sample #33 the 100 mm gun is used. Notice the increase in XP earnings due to the increased dmg dealing.
Spoiler                     

I prefer the 100 mm gun, although it drains patience and credits alot.

PanzerPunisher #49 Posted 20 February 2012 - 05:43 PM

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View Postazakow, on 15 February 2012 - 09:32 AM, said:

You are wrong. The stock gun for Lorrain is the top gun of AMX 13 90, as always.
Spoiler                     


70 battle samples of 112 battles in total.
At about sample #33 the 100 mm gun is used. Notice the increase in XP earnings due to the increased dmg dealing.
Spoiler                     

I prefer the 100 mm gun, although it drains patience and credits alot.
Off-topic: I like that xp/credit overview and graph. Is that an Excel-sheet or some sort of mod?

azakow #50 Posted 21 February 2012 - 10:18 PM

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View PostPanzerPunisher, on 20 February 2012 - 05:43 PM, said:

Off-topic: I like that xp/credit overview and graph. Is that an Excel-sheet or some sort of mod?
The post battle results were Copy&Paste to Excel sheet. Insame, I know but facts are sometimes very handy. :)

Brennus #51 Posted 21 February 2012 - 11:09 PM

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View PostSquadman45, on 25 January 2012 - 12:15 PM, said:

90mm, is a medium tank, his mission is not face heavies then you need support heavies or do flank attacks extra pen is not a great deal (and the minimal extra damage) when you need near 14 seconds more to reload, every second you are out of battle is a second where you dont support tanks that have the true mission of face enemy.

For me 1.000 credits for a gun that fail a lot (i use it in 50/100 and suffer a lot of direct hits with no damage apart magical bounces in weakspots and i have 86% accurancy) is not a great deal.

PD: extra pen is interesting but see PII, less movile and worst gun, in armor there is not a big difference (he only is save from a few tier 5-6-7 guns) and it do a nice job as support med.

I totally agree with you, though because of its size Lorraine doesn't play that role very well and is better if you stay a bit farer away from the brawl imo.

View Postazakow, on 15 February 2012 - 09:32 AM, said:

You are wrong. The stock gun for Lorrain is the top gun of AMX 13 90, as always.
Spoiler                     


70 battle samples of 112 battles in total.
At about sample #33 the 100 mm gun is used. Notice the increase in XP earnings due to the increased dmg dealing.
Spoiler                     

I prefer the 100 mm gun, although it drains patience and credits alot.

I don't get why you want to sacrifice your credits for XP in a top tier tank (edit: ok if for the Lorraine but not the bat I meant); also maybe your XP increase is also related to the upgrades you made and crew trainig etc.?

I voted for the 90mm (though I didn't upgrade Lorraine at all, except for the second 90mm, and only because you have to in order to reach batchat); the tank is really playabble with no other improvement imo. Another thing is that you'll miss the credits lost because of the 1000+ shells when you'll need to buy your batchat. I don't play with the 100mm on batchat though I have it because of the expensive shells, the imo lower accuracy and totally irritating 50 secs reload. As Squadman45 said you don't need this extra penetration, and you will also deal more damage because your playstyle will be more agressive than it can be with the 100mm where you need to be a lot more cautious and will be drive not to reload and half barrel or your two last shots until you find a target to shoot theim on. With the 90mm if you didn't fire your entire barrel, it's ok, you launch reaload with a lot less pressure and you are back in the fight quicker, at the end I'm convinced through my personnal experience that you will deal more damage and have more impact on the game (and ofc you'll turn the tank into a really good moneymaker :) ).

azakow #52 Posted 23 February 2012 - 10:36 AM

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I was travelling a lot the last few days and had some time to think about the subject.

The argument, that I will miss the credits, once I get to buying the BC seems to be valid.

The argument, that the increased reload time will have an major influence on the commanders play style, is valid.
Maybe you will find that other engines and consumables, will ease the commanders difficulties.

The argument, that the increased reload time will have an influence on vehicles participation during battle, does not seem to be valid at all.
I would like to take a closer look on the vehicles participation during battle.
In order to do so, I will take the following vehicles configurations:
  • Lorraine, 100% crew, 74 samples, gun “100mm SA 47”, damage per shell: 300, reload time 50 seconds, average battle life time 4,73 min
  • Lorraine, 100% crew, 33 samples, gun “90mm F3” , damage per shell: 240, reload time 40 seconds, average battle life time 4,73 min
  • AMX 13 90, 100% crew, 194 samples, gun “90mm F3” , damage per shell: 240, reload time 40 seconds, average battle life time 5,22 min
I’m aware that the gun: “90mm DCA 45” is not included in the samples, but my argument concentrates on the reload time and vehicles participation during battle.
The AMX 13 90 is included, in order to have to have more samples of a similar gun and reload time, but a different play style.
Spoiler                     
Assumption:
The higher reload time of the gun “100mm SA 47” has a major influence on the vehicles participation during battle, hence the potential damage dealt or better the rate of fire (RoF) is less.

I will now take the average ammo cost for each configuration and divide them by the cost for a single shell, in order to see how many shells are fired per battle in average.
  • Lorraine, 100mm gun: 10,68 shells per battle
  • Lorraine, 90mm gun: 10,98 shells per battle
  • AMX 13 90, 90mm gun: 10,25 shells per battle
I will now calculate the average rate of fire (RoF) based on my average battle life time from my dossier file.
  • Lorraine, 100mm gun: 2,26
  • Lorraine, 90mm gun: 2,32
  • AMX 13 90, 90mm gun: 1,97
The difference in average RoF is minimal.

I will now calculate the difference in potential damage dealt for the given average RoF.
  • Lorraine, 100mm gun: 677 damage
  • Lorraine, 90mm gun: 557 damage
  • AMX 13 90, 90mm gun: 472 damage
The 100mm gun deals 120 more damage during one minute of an average battle.
In total it is 568 more damage during an average battle.

Summary:
The Lorraine with the 100mm gun is preferable, because it will contribute the maximum of the vehicles abilities to team success.
In this manner the commander must also contribute the maximum of his abilities to the to team success, which is the increased ammo costs.
Something I expect from all my team mates.

Moreover, you will see that a commander who decides to contribute all of his abilities (gun, credits), is rewarded with high XP earnings per shoot taken.
  • Lorraine, 100mm gun: 116 XP per shoot
  • Lorraine, 90mm gun: 84 XP per shoot
  • AMX 13 90, 90mm gun: 116 XP per shoot
(Here the samples for the "90mm DCA 45" are missing. I assume it will be less than 100 XP per shoot.)

Please let me know, if there is anything wrong with my calculation and conclusions.
:Smile_honoring:

03/02/12 Edit:
Now I have the values for "90mm DCA 45" gun, as assumed, it is 99 XP per shoot. The values were taken from the dossier file of my ARL 44, which was using this gun only.
I will up date all data, once the Lorraine has reached 200 battles, it is at 147 now.


Metalheart #53 Posted 24 February 2012 - 05:44 AM

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That's interesting Azakow and nice to read.

However, as a non-premium player I have to say the ammo cost is killing all the fun for me. And I barely shoot 10x a round, like in your assumption above, more like 20. That makes hardly a profit even on a really good battle. So, for now I'm sticking to 90mm, until my T34 premium arrives. Surely, I'd love to roll with the 100mm (penetration btw is not an issue since I hardly engage enemies facing them front and 212 is a lot on tier 8), but loosing 70k credits in 3 victorious rounds proves that for a non-premium player there's only 1 option.

From the other hand, when 7.2 is finally here along with my tier 8 premium tank, I'd have BatChat researched for sure, so I guess no rolling with 100mm on Lorraine for me (sadly, although reload time also doesn't fit my playstyle tbh).

Brennus #54 Posted 24 February 2012 - 11:33 PM

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impressive maths there Azakow  :Smile_honoring: I'll probably give some more tries with 100mm to see if science copes with reality; and if not too lazy I might draw some graphs based on the ones you did that look great. On a sidenote, I wish you could choose wich gun you take depending on the team lists^^

Mike_Hammer #55 Posted 25 February 2012 - 12:17 PM

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View Postazakow, on 15 February 2012 - 09:32 AM, said:

You are wrong. The stock gun for Lorrain is the top gun of AMX 13 90, as always.

But when you're talking about "the" 90mm on Lorraine, it's obviously the DCA 45 that's implied.

Nixouf #56 Posted 25 February 2012 - 12:41 PM

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View PostMetalheart, on 24 February 2012 - 05:44 AM, said:

However, as a non-premium player I have to say the ammo cost is killing all the fun for me. And I barely shoot 10x a round, like in your assumption above, more like 20. That makes hardly a profit even on a really good battle. So, for now I'm sticking to 90mm, until my T34 premium arrives.

I don't know if you are talking about the F3 or the DCA. I have used the DCA on both Lorraine and BC, it's a good gun. The 100mm is only better against tougher opponents (tier9 tier10) for all other opponents of lower tier the DCA is doing well IMO

Divinemind #57 Posted 05 March 2012 - 12:41 PM

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I love the 90mm, i played lorraine with the 90mm for 230+ games, ended up with my best with 2545 exp in it. I now have the batchat and still prefer the 90mm

Arkhell #58 Posted 05 March 2012 - 01:27 PM

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my opinion:

Did you like teh AMX 13 75?

go for the 90mm, you now have a bigger AMX 13 75, it was fast and had really good reload speed.

Did you like the AMX 13 90 more then the 75?

go for the 100mm since this is a bigger 13 90: it's fast but it has bad reload speed.

this tank can be either your bigger 13 75 or 13 90, choice is yours. i like the 90mm more because of it's reload speed giving you jsut a bid mroe flexibility. besides 212 pen is more then any other T8 med and i do just fine with those so don't see a problem in this.


besides, from finencial viewpoint:

Tank repair: 13K max
ammo of 90mm 250 a pop usually fire about 24 rounds a match thats 6000 for ammo
lets say you get to 16 rounds in the 100mm then you get a bill of 16000 for ammo

usual profit up till now: 50k normal match, 70k good match 20k getting killed really fast.

all of these matches you end up even or way ahead of repair/re-arm with the 100 it's harder i geuss.

molan1976 #59 Posted 05 March 2012 - 01:52 PM

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View PostTrackLord, on 25 January 2012 - 01:24 AM, said:

Just wondering what other players think of the 2 good guns on this tank. The upgrade to the second 90mm was nice and makes this tank quite powerful. The 100m is expensive to run and I didn't seem to do much better with it after about 25 battles. So I have gone back to the 90mm and might stick with it.

One major factor is credits. I make about 3k credits profit per battle on average with 90mm and 3k credits loss on average with the 100mm. Over the 300 more battles I expect to fight in this tank that is nearly 2 million credits. Quite alot for 20mm extra pen, 60 hp more per shot but slower reload. Anyone gone back to the lower tier gun?

I'll get it fore the 20mm extra pen, I don't care about credits I have pre account and play Lowe and Type 59 too, too fund the really fun tanks.

azakow #60 Posted 05 March 2012 - 02:11 PM

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View PostArkhell, on 05 March 2012 - 01:27 PM, said:

besides, from finencial viewpoint:

Tank repair: 13K max
ammo of 90mm 250 a pop usually fire about 24 rounds a match thats 6000 for ammo
lets say you get to 16 rounds in the 100mm then you get a bill of 16000 for ammo

usual profit up till now: 50k normal match, 70k good match 20k getting killed really fast.

all of these matches you end up even or way ahead of repair/re-arm with the 100 it's harder i geuss.
How do you calculate the profit?  OMG ;)




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