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 Generalwulf, on 30 January 2012 - 02:07 AM, said:

I know the effect you're talking about but I've never seen it happen to the degree you say.
My aim ellipse tends to change shape slightly rather than grow meaning I have to compensate a touch to hit the target.
My biggest beef with arty's is the load time. I've seen plenty of film of WWII arty's pounding away and its like....round in, breach closed, stand back, fire.......boom/recoil/reset......breach open, shell eject, round in.....etc
All that happens in less than 10 seconds.

 Generalwulf, on 30 January 2012 - 02:09 AM, said:

Ah, well that's the point precisely. Actually your arty drawing is correct, but your direct fire drawing isn't. The 100m overshot is not a result of the target dissappearing and the bullet ghosting through what was your target one second ago, rather the 100m overshot is the result of your gunner completely recalibrating the sights upon dissappearance of the original target.

Did it limit the effect of artillery in game ?
Not much, arty still mainly focus on hitting things that can't fight back.

Did it help in counterbattery fire ?
Yep, still not encouraging it enough.

Did it help with fighting hidden enemies?
Not really, as you must be already aware/or lucky to know where the enemy is hiding before you can see him shooting at you.

What improvements can be done?
Bring back full tracers. Removing them did way more harm to the gameplay than when some people were abusing it.

 Tuccy, on 27 January 2012 - 03:34 PM, said:

An explicit, complete and accurate description of how and when tracers are spotted, and whether that information is transmitted to the rest of the team.

Beta patch notes mentioned view ranges, x-degree sectors, and so on. The 0.7.0 notes here simply say:

Quote

 Zevka, on 01 February 2012 - 04:22 PM, said:

Sorry, what was the point of this? You just don't want artillery in the game do you?

I mean arty focusing on hitting things that can't fight back?

Ummmm, you know this is a team game right? And that is the point of having an indirect fire support aspect of the game? You could argue that when tanks come across artillery by themselves, the arty is so slow, low armoured and slow to reload that arty can't fight back either.

Tell me - what do you think arty should be doing if not hitting things that can't fight back? The only way to do so is to drive up to enemy in direct fire range and shoot at them in direct fire mode. Oh wait, we have better units for that, they are called TANKS.

I think your comment just suggests you hate artillery in the game. If so, just say so, don't hide behind words that pretend to accept our presence.

The rest of your comments flow from that and can be ignored.

 Darkjudge, on 04 February 2012 - 01:26 PM, said:

Yep, I think artillery as it's implemented in game is just a disaster, I never tried to hide it. But as far as I know, I answered the questions asked and gave my feedback, as required. You didn't. Wich post should be ignored then ?

I'd like to see one improvement about tracers. Artillery's ones to be exact. As far as I know you can see tracers only when you are actually looking in direction they come from. That's not really helping when being shot by arti as you don't usually admire slowly moving clouds in the skies. I really would like WG to make arti tracers visible after they pass the highest point of their route through air (or somewhere around that).

It's impossible now to distinguish whether you are shot by artillery or invisible tanks as explosions' effects are both the same. I once thought that entire sky is falling on me and later realized that there were not even a single arti in that battle. Having their tracers visible would make it possible to:

- Take cover as you know from which direction you are shot (which is obvious when tanks shoot at you due to markers on screen and impossible to tell in case of arti as their shots may land everywhere around you)
- Actually know what is attacking you (omg arti run ^^).
- Possibly say where enemy arti can be (without giving out it's exact position).

Also I enjoy tracers falling from the sky, they look quite nice. At the same time such improvement won't really render SPGs more exposed. And as it is now, we only can see explosions around our tank and have no clue as to direction we are shot from and if that's SPG or not.

P.S. As other arties on satellite mode won't see those tracers unless watching actual ally being hit, it won't change their way of finding enemy SPGs much.

When playing Artillery myself i like the tracers. It really makes the game more interesting and gives u something to do even if the other teammembers are just going to camp.

As a normal Tank-driver though i didnt notice much difference.
That also might be the case, cause to me its somehow clear anyways from where enemies shoot when i'm being hit. That's what cover is good for, and the side where u dont have cover to, that's where the enemies are.
I dont need tracers to tell me this.

edit:

Although a good thing about being a tankdriver is, you also are able to see your own shots' tracer now. Interesting when sniping with TD on long distance.

 Darkjudge, on 29 January 2012 - 04:43 PM, said:

And i clearly disagree with you here.
In fact killing an enemy Arty is most of the time important for the outcome of a game. Surely it's not good if the only artillery on one side is trying to counter the only enemy artillery, since that will take up too much time.
But with having more than one artillery per side countering enemy artilleries can win the game, or being countered without moving can lose it.

 Darkjudge, on 04 February 2012 - 01:26 PM, said:

"I are Arty, God of unseen death and teamplay supreme!"

Seriously:

• He never hid the fact that he hates arty.
  
• Hating arty is not an crime.
  
• Hating arty does not render his criticism invalid. In fact the criticism should be taken as an argument as to why he hates arty. Which is particularly interesting as observed hatred against arty was probably the main reason for the devs to rethink tracres.
  
• Why on Earth do you take criticism on a specific element of a videogame as an offence to your person?

 Tuccy, on 27 January 2012 - 03:34 PM, said:

It did limit the efect of artilery, both in clan wars and in random matches. In several random matches, I see artilleries who are ONLY hunting enemy artilleries, and thus not shooting at enemy tanks. Effects in Clan wars are mixed, but several clans seem to have abandoned artillery in some maps.

It did help in counterbattery, limited tracers are better than no tracers. It's still frustrating when front line tanks can't point the direction of the shell, if they didn't happen to have their turret in JUST the right angle.

It somewhat helped fighting hidden enemies, but not much. You need to know where the enemy is before you can start looking for him, so you already know where he roughly is.

Suggestion for improvement:
Draw the detected shots in minimap. Small, thin lines, that indicate the starting and ending point of enemy (and possibly allied) shots. If minimap comes too hard to read, limit the shots drawn there to only Artillery/TD/Heavies. Currently, even if a tank sees the approaching artillery shell, he only sees it landing, he can't say where it came from. The lines drawn on minimap would help here.

A note:
Of the high tier artilleries, GW type E is suffering most from the return of tracers. Object and T92 are much faster than GW Type E, and can more easily avoid counterartillery, but GW type E is so slow, it gets hit more often than it's counterparts, even though it tries to move away after firing.

Counterbattery will be fun when the French orbital repeaters arrive.

Well not only that arty was OP    

High accuracy , high damage ,  independent of the radio system  as it can see an the whole map ,  God view ,

Now   we can see even the so called tracers  which allow not only to hunt arty but other tanks with great success as well .

they work as intended  but still arty is waaaaaaaaay to OP

 Expandeux, on 08 February 2012 - 05:31 PM, said:

think u got something wrong there..

Arty for sure still uses and needs radios.

 Tuccy, on 27 January 2012 - 03:34 PM, said:

I guess the HE nerf and shell costs did more to that than tracers. Counter Arty is still seen quite seldom in game.

 Tuccy, on 27 January 2012 - 03:34 PM, said:

Of course it helped a lot. Countering needs some luck to observe the right place. But if you can counter an arty every now and then because of the tracers it's pure satisfaction.
Besides that, I was sometimes able to conduct our lights to their arty when only knowing the approximate quadrant the enemy arty is cause observing a tracer before.

 Tuccy, on 27 January 2012 - 03:34 PM, said:

Not that much as I hoped. It means shooting at long range and without seeing the enemy. But because of the missing "normalization" of gun elevation (gun drops down when an enemy becomes invisible" I'm not hitting the enemy many times. In addition I don't get a reaction to that.

it amuses me that they said that tracers would be visible ONLY when someone is in visible range of arty. yet, I am perfectly able to see tracers of arty far away from anything. your system is very broken, at least vs how you said it would be.

 Tuccy, on 27 January 2012 - 03:34 PM, said:

No.

 Tuccy, on 27 January 2012 - 03:34 PM, said:

Yes.

 Tuccy, on 27 January 2012 - 03:34 PM, said:

Sometimes, because only arty can see TD fire. If I am in a tank, and some invisible TD shoots, I still can't see jack. No tracer that stays on screen, no luck on seeing much.

 Tuccy, on 27 January 2012 - 03:34 PM, said:

the option to see the tracer in different colors, maybe thicker. there are people that can't see very well that thin white line. I have to squint to even see it and I have good eyesight.

So if you don't add this option, I will have to look for a mod that fixes these problems for me.

I hate those stupid tracers as arty player.. That means experienced ppl know every arty spot there is.. So one just need to look that spot and boom arty dead no scouting no spotting needed.. Imho its like cheating and ruins the fun being arty...

Im glad "tracers" have returned, they give me a reason to play arty again
I first started playing artillery to perform counter battery fire because I was sick of getting killed by artillery in a single extremely well placed shot.

Now I can see the shells shock waves when they fire I can go back to killing arty.

 Mangone, on 12 February 2012 - 01:12 PM, said:

Then become an "experienced" arty player yourself and fking start moving after shooting ffs.

Did it limit the effect of artillery in game?
I've been playing SPG tiers 4 and 5 since the introduction of tracers. If anything changed in the numbers, it was subtle, and most likely a reduction. Most battles I am either alone or together with one other SPG. This is similar to my experience before tracers, but maybe a little more pronounced.

Did it help in counterbattery fire?
Yes. Before tracers, I didn't do it at all. Now it gives me something to do while there are no enemies highlighted. I usually quickly check common SPG hide spots at game start, if I see a tracer then I drop a shell on them. Either it kills them, or they moved. If they moved I know I don't need to bother trying to counter them.
I have also made an interesting use of tracers before, by having all 3 enemy SPG players stubbornly trying to counter me all battle long, without success. Fire, move, observe three explosions where I stood a second before. This is perfect for me. I keep tempting them with my tracer, waving it in their face, so they won't shoot my teammates who are breaking their ranks.

Did it help with fighting hidden enemies?
As artillery, definitely - it gives you an idea where the enemy is. It's still often not feasible to fire blind due to shell costs. Unless they are firing HE, the tracer is so faint that it's impossible to determine an accurate starting point. So you might know that the enemy is hiding in that group of bushes, but not where exactly. You also don't know if you are wasting your shell on a weak target. But at the very least, you can ping the map and tell your team.
For driving a normal tank, it meant close to nothing. AP tracers are 100% invisible in normal gameplay because you are always moving your sights about the place, not hovering motionlessly like artillery often does. Besides, even if you saw an AP tracer, chances are that the hit indicator on your tank is already providing you the same information anyway, and the mere fact that the enemy is firing their main gun generally makes them visible instantly if they are within your view range (which is a requirement for seeing the tracer). In all this time since the patch, I have not fired one single shot on a hidden target based on a tracer. Not one.
I recall one battle where I was successfully hiding and the enemy took several blind shots at my bush based on my tracer OR the hit indicator (I could see him slowly narrowing my position down everytime I fired on him). But none of his shots hit, and I killed him. You could argue that the presence of tracers did not help him fight me at all.

What improvements can be done?
Honestly, I'm pretty okay with the status quo. The feature is doing nothing for normal tanks, and doesn't need to, either (as explained above). And normal tanks make up some 85% of the game's population, so further investing resources into an irrelevant feature seems wasteful. For SPGs, it already works enough to allow for some fun mindgames with the enemy artillery, and for killing them in short order if they show up to the battle of wits unarmed.

I definitely like it.
I've been playing arty for some time along with other tanks and using it mostly for credit farming.
Now however it became a viable tool against hidden enemies.
I'm not sure about the tracers vs TDs but I think their shells are also visible.
I've had a game where there were two enemy artillery pieces and two TDs, it was on Komarin.
When I hovered with arty sight over the area where enemy arty generally goes, I've noticed four tracers within the first 2 minutes of the match, subsequently alerted my team mates where the enemy arty and TDs were and destroyed two of them.
This introduces an additional level of coop gameplay to the random battles where you, as arty user, share information that only you know and help your team in an additional way.

Also I got killed by arty counter-fire a couple of times and this taught me to change position after every shot.
This has an additional impact on the game - players that don't move after each shot, risk being destroyed via tracer location.
Players that move after each shot obviously cease fire for a while, until relocation is complete and thus contribute to less overall artillery fire saturation and less complaints from med/heavy tankers that "arty is OP".