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Comrade_Rory #1 Posted 29 January 2012 - 09:29 PM

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View PostOverlord, on 29 January 2012 - 08:43 PM, said:

2. The choice was between USA and Britain, since we needed Germany as a sort of classic opponent to at least Soviet planes (which were to be added on default), and with all respect to the British planes, Americans were more significant aerial nation in 30-50ies.


With all due respect and i accept that it's too late to change it now but... the RAF was the first ever airforce, the Spitfire is one of the most iconic WWII planes of all time, the Battle of Britain is by far the most significant air battle of the second world war, the British Gloster Meteor was the first operational allied jet fighter... i mean... the facts are all there, maybe you're just putting Americans in first to market the game to them?

Laughter #2 Posted 29 January 2012 - 10:40 PM

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View PostOverlord, on 29 January 2012 - 08:43 PM, said:

2. The choice was between USA and Britain, since we needed Germany as a sort of classic opponent to at least Soviet planes (which were to be added on default), and with all respect to the British planes, Americans were more significant aerial nation in 30-50ies.

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carvillan #3 Posted 29 January 2012 - 10:48 PM

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With all due respect Overlord, your talking out your A*** with that statement about the RAF in the 30s and 50s.  Rory has hit the nail on the head with some of his statements but he also forgot the fact that the British aviation industry at that time had made some landmark discoveries, a British engineer (Sir Frank Whittle) actually invented the jet engine.

Oh and let's not forget that the P51 Mustang was pretty limited until they put the Rolls Royce Merlin engine in it.

And a question, in the future would it be possible to show what HP% you took off each killed/damaged vehicle rather than just syaing who you killed/damaged?

Nathaniak #4 Posted 29 January 2012 - 11:59 PM

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The only reason that the Allies could open the second front was that the RAF had held out in the Battle of Britian. It was the survival of the RAF that led Hitler to cancel Operation Sealion (the invasion of the UK). If Britian had fallen, then Hitler could have turned his full force towards the USSR, and might not have failed to defeat them. The US could not ship an entire invasion force across the Atlantic onto hostile territory.

Remember, the US only joined the war against Germany in '41 because Hitler actually declared war on them.

cedars #5 Posted 30 January 2012 - 12:11 AM

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Dear OL,

scrolled back to page 119 and cant find ans although i am pretty sure you said it.

Q1 will gold ammo for T30 be transferred with T30, therefore becoming gold ammo for a T9 TD?

Q2 if so, will WG refund this gold ammo (as most of us only use gold ammo in tier 10 heavies and tier 9 mediums and tier 8 arty in CWs)?

Thanks.

FrostDX #6 Posted 30 January 2012 - 12:18 AM

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View PostComrade_Rory, on 29 January 2012 - 09:29 PM, said:

With all due respect and i accept that it's too late to change it now but... the RAF was the first ever airforce, the Spitfire is one of the most iconic WWII planes of all time, the Battle of Britain is by far the most significant air battle of the second world war, the British Gloster Meteor was the first operational allied jet fighter... i mean... the facts are all there, maybe you're just putting Americans in first to market the game to them?

Well, my guess is that this decision is not strictly related to historical significance of each particular nation.

USSR is a must, they have their own server, and they are primary market.

USA also have their own server, and there is probably more players from USA than from UK, so although historically UK had bigger role than USA, from the marketing (financial) standpoint - USA is more reasonable choice. For instance - in WoT there are no Italian, Polish, Czechoslovakian (there are some of their tanks but they are listed as German) or Japanese tanks jet (at least as premiums, and under their own flag, not under the country that captured them), but there is 1 Chinese tank with it's own personal tech tree (and furthermore this tank is just a copy of a Soviet tank) which had no part in WW2 whatsoever. But since there is Chinese server this move was more financially justified.

And Germany... well they are, for some reason ( :Smile_harp: ), main antagonists in pretty much every WW2 based game, without them WW2 just wouldn't be the same...

Laughter #7 Posted 30 January 2012 - 12:28 AM

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View PostFrostDX, on 30 January 2012 - 12:18 AM, said:

Well, my guess is that this decision is not strictly related to historical significance of each particular nation.

USSR is a must, they have their own server, and they are primary market.

USA also have their own server, and there is probably more players from USA than from UK, so although historically UK had bigger role than USA, from the marketing (financial) standpoint - USA is more reasonable choice. For instance - in WoT there are no Italian, Polish, Czechoslovakian (there are some of their tanks but they are listed as German) or Japanese tanks jet (at least as premiums, and under their own flag, not under the country that captured them), but there is 1 Chinese tank with it's own personal tech tree (and furthermore this tank is just a copy of a Soviet tank) which had no part in WW2 whatsoever. But since there is Chinese server this move was more financially justified.

And Germany... well they are, for some reason ( :Smile_harp: ), main antagonists in pretty much every WW2 based game, without them WW2 just wouldn't be the same...

This is the most likely reason, ultimately they want a tree for each region they have a server excluding Asia.

Listy #8 Posted 30 January 2012 - 12:31 AM

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View PostNathaniak, on 29 January 2012 - 11:59 PM, said:

The only reason that the Allies could open the second front was that the RAF had held out in the Battle of Britian. It was the survival of the RAF that led Hitler to cancel Operation Sealion (the invasion of the UK). If Britian had fallen, then Hitler could have turned his full force towards the USSR, and might not have failed to defeat them. The US could not ship an entire invasion force across the Atlantic onto hostile territory.

So the Royal navy outnumbering the Germans between 10-1 and 100-1 (depending on ship classes) had nothing to do with it? And that's only in home waters too :D

Comrade_Rory #9 Posted 30 January 2012 - 12:36 AM

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View PostListy, on 30 January 2012 - 12:31 AM, said:

So the Royal navy outnumbering the Germans between 10-1 and 100-1 (depending on ship classes) had nothing to do with it? And that's only in home waters too :D

Well it's commonly accepted that the only way the Germans could invade is with heavy air support and the Battle of Britain crippled luftwaffe strength in the west at that time, thus Hitler cancelling all plans to invade Britain.

Listy #10 Posted 30 January 2012 - 12:52 AM

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View PostComrade_Rory, on 30 January 2012 - 12:36 AM, said:

Well it's commonly accepted that the only way the Germans could invade is with heavy air support and the Battle of Britain crippled luftwaffe strength in the west at that time, thus Hitler cancelling all plans to invade Britain.

Wouldn't have made a jot of difference. There's no way the Luftwaffe could have stopped the RN.

Schlock #11 Posted 30 January 2012 - 08:12 AM

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View PostComrade_Rory, on 29 January 2012 - 09:29 PM, said:

the British Gloster Meteor was the first operational allied jet fighter

Fixed it for ya'.

Ragnar_L0thbr0k #12 Posted 30 January 2012 - 08:23 AM

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View PostSchlock, on 30 January 2012 - 08:12 AM, said:

Fixed it for ya'.

You are wrong. Comrade_Rory is right. Meteor was first ALLIED jet fighter. The first ever operational jet fighter was Me-262 which attained operational status just couple of months before Gloster Meteor.

Schlock #13 Posted 30 January 2012 - 09:38 AM

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View PostFlynexPL, on 30 January 2012 - 08:23 AM, said:

You are wrong. Comrade_Rory is right. Meteor was first ALLIED jet fighter. The first ever operational jet fighter was Me-262 which attained operational status just couple of months before Gloster Meteor.

Ummm... No. 616 Sqn got operational on Meteors in early July 1944, while Kommando Nowotny went operational in Sept. 1944. You are probably mixing it up with Erprobungskommando 262, which was testing & evaluation unit.

Oposohaup #14 Posted 30 January 2012 - 10:13 AM

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It depends on what measure

the US produced more actual aircraft than any two countries combined every year from 1922-1936, and any single country in 1937 and 38, 1939 France aparently breifly took the lead but from 1940 onward US production picked up again.

However England and France had a somewhat better organised system, but Germany had a bit of a technical edge over England untill the introduction of the Merlin and Gryphon Engine wich is where things get debatable. The US Allison engine. . . well the less said the better, (it was better at low altitude than the Merlin, but not by mutch, and apart from late edition Allisons used on P38s frankly was not a match for the Merlin at high altitude, for that matter the twin Mustang frankly would have been better (and was) with Merlins(the Training version was fit with the Twin Merlins and frankly was the better aircraft for them than the "Combat" version with Alisons)

Frankly the only real Edge the Americans had was the fact that the Automotive industry gave the Aviation industry a well needed kick in the butt when it came to mass production, and the Army Air Corps (and the US Navy) both were hell bent on building the Largest airwings around.

Seriously in 1937 there were already studies from the US Navy that showed that they alone would need more Aircraft production than any other COUNTRY with the posible exception of Russia(and ironicaly the US Army Air Core Agreed with them, even if they felt that the Navy would need 2/3s of what the Navy thought they needed but even that was because the Army for whatever reason left training and untility aircraft out of their count for the Navy)

RokRoland #15 Posted 30 January 2012 - 11:24 AM

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View PostComrade_Rory, on 29 January 2012 - 09:29 PM, said:

With all due respect and i accept that it's too late to change it now but... the RAF was the first ever airforce

Sorry to intrude in Q&A but this is wrong and needs to be corrected.

RAF was founded April 1st, 1918.

The Finnish Air Force was founded March 6th, 1918. So your fact is wrong. By the way I'm not trying to rout for FAF as starter air force in WoWP. :P

Laughter #16 Posted 30 January 2012 - 11:40 AM

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View PostRokRoland, on 30 January 2012 - 11:24 AM, said:

Sorry to intrude in Q&A but this is wrong and needs to be corrected.

RAF was founded April 1st, 1918.

The Finnish Air Force was founded March 6th, 1918. So your fact is wrong. By the way I'm not trying to rout for FAF as starter air force in WoWP. :P



"The British Royal Air Force was the first independent air force in the world.[2] The RAF was founded on 1 April 1918 by amalgamation the British Army's Royal Flying Corps and the Royal Naval Air Service."

The Finnish air force was a branch of the military, the RAF was totally independent.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_force

(We all know Wikipedia is 100% correct :D )

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Eraser_SK #17 Posted 30 January 2012 - 02:53 PM

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View PostOverlord, on 30 January 2012 - 01:57 PM, said:

That's why it is possible that we won't see Germany as starting nation in WoB (prolly USSR as well), since submarines won't be present in game.

Oh no!!! Why not submarines?  :blink: at last like NPC´s
food for my Cruiser  :Smile-playing:

Kuad #18 Posted 30 January 2012 - 03:54 PM

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View PostOverlord, on 30 January 2012 - 01:57 PM, said:

That's why it is possible that we won't see Germany as starting nation in WoB (prolly USSR as well), since submarines won't be present in game.
I've not been following WoB, but if the developers are smart it will have a different timeline to WoT - the battleship being effectively dead before the end of the Second World War. If they're sensible and go back to 1910 or so for the start, there's no reason why Germany, France, and Russia can't be major powers. Restrict it to the 30s and 40s and there's a lot less to go around.

Fun, useless fact: Despite having no capital ships, by 1945 Canada had the third largest navy in the world.

Generalwulf #19 Posted 30 January 2012 - 04:33 PM

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View PostOverlord, on 29 January 2012 - 08:43 PM, said:

1. The WoB trees are yet to be done, only some initial research has been carried out by now.

2. The choice was between USA and Britain, since we needed Germany as a sort of classic opponent to at least Soviet planes (which were to be added on default), and with all respect to the British planes, Americans were more significant aerial nation in 30-50ies.


lol?

please be so kind as to give some historical background facts for this view.

please cover the topic in such a way as to make it both informative and entertaining ( i'm sure i WILL be entertained.)

please explain How USA's airpower was more significant that the British Empires airpower in the 30's ? i don't recall reading how American had an Empire to keep bombed into submission (send out a long expensive expedition or fly a few planes over to drop leaflets that say  "surrender the rebels or the town gets bombed" ...it worked! )

please explain how USA airpower was superior to the combined airpower of the R.A.F. and the F.A.A. (in any theatre of operations pre 1943?, and in any way to the European theatre 1939-1945?

please review Albert Speer's comments RE: the number of large calibre guns that had to be diverted from the front lines to protect German airspace at the time of the battle of Kursk (the turning point of WW2)
as Speer himself once stated "we had to have over 100,000 large caliber guns (88mm and over) to defend the German nation from allied bombing" - Kurst was 1943. (how would the battle have gone if the German army had even a part of those 100,000 guns?) - The USA's 8th Army Air Force had barely even landed in England and wouldn't be effective until the fighters got long range drop tanks (aprox may/june 1944)

please explain how (1945- 1950) the USA's jet engine technology surpassed the UK's ??? was Frank Whittle American by any chance? i think not.

please explain; 1950- 1952 (korean war) tech for UK / USA on a par.... North Korea could get hold of Russian MiG's "nice :) "  ...but wait , wheres Germany?

1955 -1958 , yes, American Tech gradually outpaces Britains as they both share tech research ...but USA has a larger budget to spend.

Please explain sir, how this is in ANY way a HISTORICAL and not a FINANCIAL decision on the company's part?

either prove this statement with historical facts, or retract it.

View PostOverlord, on 29 January 2012 - 08:43 PM, said:

1. The WoB trees are yet to be done, only some initial research has been carried out by now.

2. The choice was between USA and Britain, since we needed Germany as a sort of classic opponent to at least Soviet planes (which were to be added on default), and with all respect to the British planes, Americans were more significant aerial nation in 30-50ies.


until such time as it is either proved or retracted.. i shall personally assume the statement is meant to be read as  this.

2. The choice was between USA and Britain, since we needed Germany as a sort of classic opponent to at least Soviet planes (which were to be added on default), and with all respect to the British planes, [u]Americans are more significant for the companies projected financial spread gain.

CHARM_3 #20 Posted 30 January 2012 - 04:58 PM

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View PostComrade_Rory, on 30 January 2012 - 12:36 AM, said:

Well it's commonly accepted that the only way the Germans could invade is with heavy air support and the Battle of Britain crippled luftwaffe strength in the west at that time, thus Hitler cancelling all plans to invade Britain.

Quote: As one of 'the Few', Wg Cdr H R Allen said, "It was sea power that ruled the day in 1940, and fortunately Britain had a sufficiency. The air situation was, of course, important, but by no means fundamental. Without doubt the five hundred of so section, flight and squadron commanders in Fighter Command earned their laurels. But the real victor was the Royal Navy, the Silent Service."

I believe there were also some high-ranking German naval officers who said that regardless of what happened in the air, the German Navy couldn't get through the Royal Navy, thus there was no hope for the invasion anyway.




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