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Upcoming French nerf?


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brick128 #41 Posted 12 February 2012 - 05:27 PM

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As I'm the OP of this thread I'll give you my opinion.

Basically I think the French tanks are well balanced and don't need a nerf.

As stated before, now that more mediocre players start playing them you see they have a lot less influence in battles.
Also most people know by now how to deal with them.

There will be a problem with the French though.

These tanks have extreme advantages and disadvantages.
This means that people who know how to use these will be very successful with them, If you don't know how to use these you will suck so bad in a French that its no fun to play.

And here lies the big problem.
Players that don't know how to use them get so much grief playing them they just stop playing with the french. This results in only above average players playing French tanks.
The way WG determiners when tanks need nerfs is purely based on performance stats. With only above average players these stats will be high. I really hope the devs take this in consideration before nerfing the hell out of them.

There are some things I think they can tweak a but on some french tanks.

The 100mm on the Lorraine for instance.
I think this gun is to accurate. 0.31 makes it very suitable for sniping.

You get high damage potential and great maneuverability which should be balanced by weak armor and big profile.
It should be a tank that fights up close.
With this gun you can stay in the relative safety of the rear lines and still use your high rof and damage potential very effectively.

I really hope they think it through before implementing all kinds of nerfs and completely destroying the French.

The French with their different play style really added something to the game, in a good way.

Brennus #42 Posted 12 February 2012 - 09:54 PM

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I'd like to do a list of myths about french tanks. You can read those myths on those forums and they are use to tell french should be nerfed as arguments wich just show how peoples are eager to speak and condamn things they do know nothing about... Nothing new under the sun how typical and desesperatly human in the wrong way..

so:
1) NO french heavies cannot shoot 6 shells but 4
2) The guns : they cannot penetrate most of the high tier tanks unless you shoot the flank or the rear like everyone else..
3) they are not ultra accurate and therefore can't be use that much effectively for sniping cause you got recoil after each shot and the base accuracy is close of the one of an IS4..
4) No you can't destroy any tank above tier 7 in just one barrel,unless your sitting just back to him penetrate each shot and fire it up, even so, with batchat that wont be enough to kill any tier 9 in just one barrel
5)No you cannot go underwater or fly like the real batmobile..
6) etc..

Edward_Teague #43 Posted 12 February 2012 - 10:27 PM

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View PostBrennus, on 12 February 2012 - 09:54 PM, said:

I'd like to do a list of myths about french tanks. You can read those myths on those forums and they are use to tell french should be nerfed as arguments wich just show how peoples are eager to speak and condamn things they do know nothing about... Nothing new under the sun how typical and desesperatly human in the wrong way..

so:
1) NO french heavies cannot shoot 6 shells but 4
2) The guns : they cannot penetrate most of the high tier tanks unless you shoot the flank or the rear like everyone else..
3) they are not ultra accurate and therefore can't be use that much effectively for sniping cause you got recoil after each shot and the base accuracy is close of the one of an IS4..
4) No you can't destroy any tank above tier 7 in just one barrel,unless your sitting just back to him penetrate each shot and fire it up, even so, with batchat that wont be enough to kill any tier 9 in just one barrel
5)No you cannot go underwater or fly like the real batmobile..
6) etc..

Poor....

Mediums, because this is a medium thread ! Can pawn ur face 5-6 times.

Yes u can destroy the whole tank with a single load. Done it frequently with amx 90. E75 = they are on fire !

It's noT just the enormous dps but it's the silly speed too.

French guns have the best penetration values in the game.

Loraine with .31 cant snipe? Lol

Heavies are not too bad but medium / light frenchies are too OP.

Massive nerfbat is needed.

Injector_X #44 Posted 13 February 2012 - 07:48 AM

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First its a death sentence going against vs more than one enemy tank with a frenchie. You will kill one of them maybe but the second will kill you, this is their handicap. Secondly i fully agree that its too early to talk about nerf, only by complains of some sorry but i have to say this, complaints of noobs who dont have fully maxed out tanks or are soloing and encounter a Frenchie 1 on 1 and panic and dont know what to do, they are weak tanks with huge burst damage output and people simply need to start inventing tactics against them and not just whine when they die.  I got T-54 and Bat Chat and i can kill Bat Chat with T-54, if you keep your front facing him and move and even if one shot does not penetrate or misses, you will tear him apart when he reloads. Plus they are very weak to arty fire. Arties should learn to take out first and people should learn using HE ammo against french tanks, it actually can penetrate them! Lorraine is very handicapped because of its size and low armor and very long reload times and 3.5 sec interval with its top gun. Use HE ammo and dont go soloing against the french and tell your arty to focus on french tanks first, keep moving when they start shooting so they more likely miss or glance and count their shots so when they have shot 5-6 times you know its your turn to deal damage to them since they are reloading and are useless for 30-50sec, use HE ammo against them and even ram them cuz they are so light, these are just a few pointers. I have a variety of top tier tanks in my garage and i dont see frenchies overpowered in any way if your team plays together and not solo rushing like headless chicken. Peace!  :Smile_honoring:

Injector_X #45 Posted 13 February 2012 - 08:02 AM

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View PostEdward_Teague, on 12 February 2012 - 10:27 PM, said:

Poor....

Mediums, because this is a medium thread ! Can pawn ur face 5-6 times.

Yes u can destroy the whole tank with a single load. Done it frequently with amx 90. E75 = they are on fire !

It's noT just the enormous dps but it's the silly speed too.

French guns have the best penetration values in the game.

Loraine with .31 cant snipe? Lol

Heavies are not too bad but medium / light frenchies are too OP.

Massive nerfbat is needed.

No, people should learn to play against frenches, i have only trouble with them if they catch me off guard wich is their role. But on equal terms and if i catch them offguard they are not overpowered in any way. What would you suggest then, nerfing french medium tanks would make them USELESS. Lorraine is handicapped already by its size and low turning speed. Plus its top gun has 3.5 sec firing interval. Its suicide even with BatChat going against 2 enemy tanks even if they are just tier 8, you will kill one of them probably if they dont use HE ammo and escape barely or die against the second and this tank is made to fight tier9-10 tanks and wich against its perfectly balanced!!! People should learn to counter them, like not going soloing or rushing like headless chicken, plus if French tanks want to fire accurately they must stop first and then they are good target for arty, even splash damage from arty will penetrate them. Learn new tactics, fire your firt shot HE against frenchie.  No whining but learning. BatChat and Lorraine are very balanced on their own tiers. AMX 13 90 is too if its in tier9-10 match only.

Injector_X #46 Posted 13 February 2012 - 08:09 AM

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View PostBrennus, on 12 February 2012 - 09:54 PM, said:

I'd like to do a list of myths about french tanks. You can read those myths on those forums and they are use to tell french should be nerfed as arguments wich just show how peoples are eager to speak and condamn things they do know nothing about... Nothing new under the sun how typical and desesperatly human in the wrong way..

so:
1) NO french heavies cannot shoot 6 shells but 4
2) The guns : they cannot penetrate most of the high tier tanks unless you shoot the flank or the rear like everyone else..
3) they are not ultra accurate and therefore can't be use that much effectively for sniping cause you got recoil after each shot and the base accuracy is close of the one of an IS4..
4) No you can't destroy any tank above tier 7 in just one barrel,unless your sitting just back to him penetrate each shot and fire it up, even so, with batchat that wont be enough to kill any tier 9 in just one barrel
5)No you cannot go underwater or fly like the real batmobile..
6) etc..

I agree with you, that people should be discussing tactics against the French tanks instead if whining for nerf because they were lower tier and died from them, or a BatChat flanked them and shot his full clip into tier9 tanks backside without him noticing it only at last second. French mediums are well balanced in tier8-10 matches they are supposed to play. Any lower tier tank will die against t9 medium tank. Like Löwe will die against T-54, E-50 and Patton same as against BatChat. Lorraine is actually very handicapped tank. If French tanks would be nerfed will i get my free XP back, i dont want useless tanks in my garage plz.

Injector_X #47 Posted 13 February 2012 - 10:57 AM

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Only nerf would be fair is increasing the interval to 3.5 seconds of shots for the AMX13 90 tier 7 gun and maybe giving their guns like maximum of -10 average penetration. Other nerfs would make them totally useless, if their guns would be nerfed then they would need more HP and armor while retaining the mobility. They are supposed to be glass cannons, if they nerf all French tanks, they will be just Glass then and useless. Now only AMX 13 90 is causing trouble, but in reality T-50-2 is better tank, it can kill Lorraine and AMX 13 90 by outmanouvering them, or other tier 5 scout tanks with their derp and other guns. Arty can always do huge splash damage to all French tanks even if they are behind cover. But still its too early to cry for nerf, wait for next two patches atleast and when 3rd comes then consider it maybe. Americans get their new tier9-10 tanks and new TDs and maybe later Soviets too get IS-4 to tier 10 finally. Maybe by then people have learned tactics to kill French tanks easily and not just cry when you took solo head on a BatChat with your Type59 and he shot you to pieces. New american tanks will have increased frontal armor.  :Smile_honoring:

BearlyArmored #48 Posted 13 February 2012 - 01:34 PM

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View Postbrick128, on 12 February 2012 - 05:58 AM, said:

Potentially they can kill in one burst a higher tier tank, that,s right.

BUT.

That tank has to be alone without support. Also each tank gets two shots off in one drum cycle.
As you don't play the yourself I'll explane what that does to french light/med tanks.
1. Half your HP is gone.
2. If not instantly set on fire you loose with each shot a module or crew.
(tip. Shoot the turret ring, its big and easy to hit. This locks the turret and makes circling you useless.)

And one of the most forgotten things in this story is that even french tanks bounce and do 0 crits. So even in the case of a dumbass going on a lone adventure its not a sure kill.

Now that you see more moderate and bad players reaching these tanks you see more and more misuse of these beauties on the battlefield.

People who got killed by one because the went on a solo adventure think this is the way to play them.
They rush into the first high tier heavy and die before the get the second shot off.

Thats true, you'll hardly ever have the full possible damage output with a french tank. Just have a look at the statistics. With all the bounces, 0% critical hits, tracking and low damage hits it puts it into perspective. With a AMX 13 90 you should have a avarage damage output of 1440 hitpoints per barell - the actual damage you deal is far below that value. And keep in mind that you have a 40 sec reload after these 6 shots!

Dan_Abnormal #49 Posted 13 February 2012 - 05:30 PM

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All the whining nerf posts I read are about the AMX 13/90, why does nobody complain about the BatChat? It's a 13/90 on steroids!!

PS: this is not me calling for a BatChat nerf, I think all the frenchies are fine. The only reason they seem OP to some is that most of the top tanks are currently being driven by the better players, once noobs get hold of them their stats will plummet.

future_shock #50 Posted 13 February 2012 - 07:26 PM

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You talk about nerfs and they already nerfed them. Lorraine has now the magical "shoot goes to the tracks" feature, 1st shot always misses or does 0%, gun accuracy feels like KVs trollgun, it gets spotted earlier then a Maus, penetration of the topgun feels like 200mm. Time to stop playing them. At least for me, seems 66% winrate is too much. Thanks for the 3 or 4 weeks it was a playable tank though  :Smile_honoring:

gazzer21 #51 Posted 14 February 2012 - 12:17 AM

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instead of nerfing the french meds ,can we not buff the other meds, well tier 9 meds any way with a speed Buff.

A faster Patton & T54 would go a long way to protecting flanks from a bat or 13-90 as well a chasing them down if reloading.

As the best defence from meds is another med. NOT a heavy, seen many games where its meds V heavy's and most of the time the med team wins.

OpCentar #52 Posted 14 February 2012 - 01:09 AM

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View Postfuture_shock, on 13 February 2012 - 07:26 PM, said:

You talk about nerfs and they already nerfed them. Lorraine has now the magical "shoot goes to the tracks" feature, 1st shot always misses or does 0%, gun accuracy feels like KVs trollgun, it gets spotted earlier then a Maus, penetration of the topgun feels like 200mm. Time to stop playing them. At least for me, seems 66% winrate is too much. Thanks for the 3 or 4 weeks it was a playable tank though  :Smile_honoring:


True, the 90mm DCA now misses alot and does 0 damage way more than before. Something was altered in the last week or so, probably gun dispersion. Before I could usually fire without waiting for the full aim reticule (it had to be close though) and hit 4/5. Now it's impossible, and you get over/under target shots unless you are fully aimed.

Could be due to lag but something is diffrent.


The 100mm on the other hand is still easy mode :D but you wont make any credits with it :(

CritiCal057s #53 Posted 14 February 2012 - 06:49 AM

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1. Nerf them
2. Repeat step 1
3. After getting tired of step 1 go to 4
4. Add armor
5. Make them shoot like every tank ingame 1 shot reload,second shot reload
adjust to german,soviet and american tank tree
everybody happy
If you leave them like this then,remove armor from all tanks ingame,give them a revolver like reload,change it with a machine gun
and now let's play western shooter with tanks.........thank you!

lokkagutt #54 Posted 14 February 2012 - 12:40 PM

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View PostCritiCal057s, on 14 February 2012 - 06:49 AM, said:

1. Nerf them
2. Repeat step 1
3. After getting tired of step 1 go to 4
4. Add armor
5. Make them shoot like every tank ingame 1 shot reload,second shot reload
adjust to german,soviet and american tank tree
everybody happy
If you leave them like this then,remove armor from all tanks ingame,give them a revolver like reload,change it with a machine gun
and now let's play western shooter with tanks.........thank you!

well thank you for a useless post and making me make another useless post just to tell you how bad an ide that is......  :Smile-izmena:

Mack_Bang #55 Posted 14 February 2012 - 03:43 PM

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my AMx 13 90 is so OP, i got pwned by a sherman, omg, i feel so butthurt, nerf sherman.
so, the sarcasm is out, now i tell you how that happened.
The sherman was on a hill and only showed turret. His RoF is pretty much the same as AMXes, BUT SUSTAINED. After i dinged for the second time , my Driver and commander were both dead.I reanimated the commander while losing another 150 HP or so, then tried to back out while i still could.There went my track, the sherman seemed to be pretty happy behind the hill, as he did not advance, but kept on peppering me. so i tried desperately to shoot him again, but this time i hit sky, or the hill. Then was the message "Vehicle destroyed" and all was over.
Guess what, i met a player who used his advantages.And had a bit of luck with the 2 dings. Still, even if those had hit, he would still be alive. and peppering me.He had no ding on my front or side, And with a crew of only 3, those 2 losses in my hull sure are critical.I had cover nearby, but did not make it there in time.He knew what he was doing, and did this well. Kudos to him.
Let him keep that sherman, it is a nice tank in his hands.

toxicm #56 Posted 14 February 2012 - 04:05 PM

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Only things that should be adjusted are the last 2 guns on French mediums, 90mm and 100mm. They need penetrations that match others mediums with better aiming time. About 180-190mm penetration for 90mm and 210-220 penetration for 100mm gun with 2 seconds aiming time for both. Also, Lorraine is T8 medium so it should not have same top gun like Bat. AMX 12 and 13 are good as they are now.

Or just buff penetration for other mediums. I don't have problems fighting Lorraine with my Pershing but I would like to be able to fight T10 tanks frontally and that is impossible with 180mm penetration.

Intruder313 #57 Posted 14 February 2012 - 04:19 PM

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As soon as someone brings up "good players use x tanks and now mediocre players are playing them the stats will change" you know the argument is nonsense.

WoT take lots of stats which covers the whole span of player-skill.

The stats must have shown French tanks doing too well thus they are getting "adjusted". But wait and see what the change is before crying foul.

Personally I think they absolutely need their burst damage softening. They will still be a "unique playstyle" but not so manic.

4freeee #58 Posted 14 February 2012 - 05:02 PM

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the only french tanks that are performing too good are AMX 13 90 and Lorraine.

for the 13 90 i dont know how to nerf him.
speed is ok for its weight and armor.
weapon penetration is ok for the bad accuracy, specially on the move.
reload time is high enough to make it a useless tank whenever he is hiding for reload.
if he doesnt run and hide for reload, hes dead.

for the Lorraine i think its simple.
just remove the 100mm top gun and increase accuracy on the move for the 90mm and its done.
that would also slightly nerf the batchat, cause you actually have to grind for the 100mm in it.

atm i think everyday more players know how to counter french tanks, and ofc everyday more "average" players are getting t7+ french tanks.
so the actual balance probs will be gone, except for lorraine :D

Nixouf #59 Posted 14 February 2012 - 06:19 PM

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View PostIntruder313, on 14 February 2012 - 04:19 PM, said:

As soon as someone brings up "good players use x tanks and now mediocre players are playing them the stats will change" you know the argument is nonsense.


You must have skipped the latest EU server statistics which are already verifying what you call nonesense. The win ratio of french tanks is already lowering, Batchat is not anymore in the top 5 for 150 games played. ;)

Brennus #60 Posted 14 February 2012 - 08:43 PM

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I would just want to add one more perspective to that debate: don't forget Batchat is a tier 9 tank therefore it takes the spot of the like IS4 and E75 in the match list. I've been in match where we were 2 batchat top tier against 2 e75. The only thingh that allowed us to win this game was a good teamplay an open map and a huge load of fortune, but at the start of the match peoples wanted to quit or suicide because they thought we had no chance and I was quite convived about this too. Facts are in match like that you'll lose 9 times on 10. So before calling for nerf just remember that even with nerf you can end up in fight like this where you (the peoples calling for nerf everytime) would be the first ones to call for unbalance (and of course fail matchmaking QQ)..




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