34 replies to this topic

[S0ny_B1ack]

First of all i would like to quote 2 post from Overlord from the Q&A topic:
Both regarding questions if they plan any changes to the french med/lights

 Overlord, on 30 January 2012 - 01:58 PM, said:

Heavies are mostly ok, mediums and lights are OP. We can expect some adjustments to them in 7.2.

 Overlord, on 31 January 2012 - 01:03 PM, said:

Yes, there will be a number of tweaks in 7.2, especially for lights and mediums. As for M4 1945, it probably will get buffed.

SO a change (nerf) for the french lights and/or meds will come, so i would like to make this topic to gather some constructive suggestions how they can be changed, so that they won't loose their specific role on the battlefield.

My 2 cents on the issue would be:
-leave their strenghts as they are, since if the stroong points of the french tanks get nerfed we get tanks, which have big disadvantages and no really outstanding advantages, so IMHO that would make them rather "useless" on the battlefield.
With strenghts i mean especially mobility, penetration and damage (or maybe only slight damage reduction, but please don't touch the mobility and penetration - IMHO the most important stats to play in the supporter/scout role which kinda fits french tanks)

-"nerf" their weaknesses even more. If a change has to made i would rather see that the weak points of the french get even more outstanding than before. For example reduce their health, so that it would be easier to destroy them or extend the reload when you have to reload your revolver.
Another option would be (though this one could be huge, so it might require even some buffing on other stats) to remove the option to reload your revolver before it is empty (so we couldn't reload it by pressing 'c' or switching to HE and back). That would require french players to decide if they want to waste precious ammo to force the long reload or to engage the enemys sometimes without a fully loaded revolver.

PS: please people don't use this topic to discuss if a "nerf" is needed or not, the above quotes from Overlord shows that WG has already decided on that matter, so please use this topic to provide some suggestions how that can be done without destroying the point of french lights/meds.

[steininge96]

i would say reduce hp.

[Rallief]

French light tanks overpowered? Well I have AMX 12t and it is much worse than other tier 5 light tanks. And AMX 40 is just terribly underpowered. I don't know about AMX 13 75 and AMX 13 90 but they do not seem that OP to me, compared to T-50-2 and M24 Chaffee etc.

[Homer_J]

12t is fine, 13-75 doesn't need much, it's 13-90 up which need most adjustment.

Reduce HP on the AMX13-90 by about 100.

Give the Lorraine special matchmaking (remove it's lowest battle tier).

Increase dispersion on the move for AMX13s, Lorraine, and Batchat.

Small reduction in HP for the Batchat (make it same as stock T-54).

Then give the community time to adjust and find ways to counter them.

 Rallief, on 12 February 2012 - 12:31 PM, said:

French light tanks overpowered? Well I have AMX 12t and it is much worse than other tier 5 light tanks.

You can't compare it with the other tier 5 lights, it has the matchmaking more like a tier 4 light.  Compared with the Leopard and T-50 it is fine.

[domokun]

 Rallief, on 12 February 2012 - 12:31 PM, said:

French light tanks overpowered? Well I have AMX 12t and it is much worse than other tier 5 light tanks. And AMX 40 is just terribly underpowered. I don't know about AMX 13 75 and AMX 13 90 but they do not seem that OP to me, compared to T-50-2 and M24 Chaffee etc.

AMX40 or AMX12t aren't the issue. AMX-13-75 is pretty well balanced. The problem about lights is AMX-13-90, if it operates alone it's serious nuisance to almost all tanks, pretty much everything except IS-4, IS-7 and Maus, but even that isn't really the issue. The problem with lights is when AMX-13-90's form wolfpack. Three or four of those operating as a group can dominate any game, they are too fast for anything to react into their rush and their combined capability to deal damage can bring down anything in matter of seconds.

T-50, T-50-2 and Chaffee are all insanely superior as scouts when compared to AMX-13's, but especially 13-90 can deal massive amounts of damage in groups.

[TheDOD]

How are the OP? The mighty 40mm of armor even for a T8 med tank?

Fine the Revolver system is kinda annoyning, but there armor is a joke. Even T-28 have more armor than them

[AgentOfBolas]

 TheDOD, on 19 February 2012 - 11:37 AM, said:

How are the OP? The mighty 40mm of armor even for a T8 med tank?

Fine the Revolver system is kinda annoyning, but there armor is a joke. Even T-28 have more armor than them

Armor?

What for?

French guns penetrate every opponent from the same tier so armor do not count.
But when you shot at french tank 1 or 2 times he will unload his full clip and you are dead.


Frenchies are imbalanced.
I've killed IS3 1 on 1 with AMX 13 75... it's impossible to any other VI tier medium/light tank.

[Black_Panzer]

reduce health, make them more vulnerable to HE (since now it doesn't work as it should), increasing thus module damage and making easier to kill their crew members, so they will have to be more careful when leaving a cover.
Some tanks (only a few) need a penetration nerf however

[_Muody_]

 Black_Panzer, on 02 March 2012 - 10:35 AM, said:

reduce health, make them more vulnerable to HE (since now it doesn't work as it should), increasing thus module damage and making easier to kill their crew members, so they will have to be more careful when leaving a cover.
Some tanks (only a few) need a penetration nerf however

Are you kidding me? Everytime I get shot at my 13 90 I lose either a module or a crewmember because of the miniature size. First shot, in 50% of occasions, takes out the engine. I know many players can vouch for this happening to them as well.

[Black_Panzer]

 _Muody_, on 02 March 2012 - 02:10 PM, said:

Are you kidding me? Everytime I get shot at my 13 90 I lose either a module or a crewmember because of the miniature size. First shot, in 50% of occasions, takes out the engine. I know many players can vouch for this happening to them as well.

not talking about all french tanks obviosely, there are some french heavies and meds that are not taking enough module damage however

[AgentOfBolas]

 _Muody_, on 02 March 2012 - 02:10 PM, said:

Are you kidding me? Everytime I get shot at my 13 90 I lose either a module or a crewmember because of the miniature size. First shot, in 50% of occasions, takes out the engine. I know many players can vouch for this happening to them as well.

You got the same "module apocalypse" on T20.

But your AMX can shoot 6 times and T20 can't.

[_Muody_]

 AgentOfBolas, on 02 March 2012 - 03:57 PM, said:

You got the same "module apocalypse" on T20.

But your AMX can shoot 6 times and T20 can't.

You forget about the fact that after 6 shots you have to run around for 38 seconds (13 90, maxed crew with vents).

[AgentOfBolas]

 _Muody_, on 02 March 2012 - 04:06 PM, said:

You forget about the fact that after 6 shots you have to run around for 38 seconds (13 90, maxed crew with vents).

Run? Where? For what?

6 shots ~240 damage each?
In most cases you kill your opponent even if you miss one or two shots so you have time to reload in peace.

[Black_Panzer]

 AgentOfBolas, on 02 March 2012 - 06:13 PM, said:

Run? Where? For what?

6 shots ~240 damage each?
In most cases you kill your opponent even if you miss one or two shots so you have time to reload in peace.

and i would add that since french tanks are small and ultrafast they can quickly retreat

[Black_Panzer]

 _Muody_, on 02 March 2012 - 02:10 PM, said:

Are you kidding me? Everytime I get shot at my 13 90 I lose either a module or a crewmember because of the miniature size. First shot, in 50% of occasions, takes out the engine. I know many players can vouch for this happening to them as well.

and btw developers said (before releasing french tanks) that module damage and dead crew members were supposed to be one of their main weakness, but actually i don't think it is so. If enemy french tank can continue shooting without even needing to cover (because they can rely on decent hp pool) while taking damage, it simply does mean that module damage is not enough as it should be. I'm not saying "just nerf french tanks", but some of them seriosly need to be balanced.

[AgentOfBolas]

 Black_Panzer, on 02 March 2012 - 09:30 PM, said:

and btw developers said (before releasing french tanks) that module damage and dead crew members were supposed to be one of their main weakness, but actually i don't think it is so. If enemy french tank can continue shooting without even needing to cover (because they can rely on decent hp pool) while taking damage, it simply does mean that module damage is not enough as it should be. I'm not saying "just nerf french tanks", but some of them seriosly need to be balanced.

I have both - french and US tanks.
Believe me, you got module destroyed more often on US tanks.

[DriveBy]

Frenchies are prone to module damage. They can be prone even more. It suits them - they are small and fragile. They have large failpoint pool, but hits to these light tanks should be more devastating than to others.

My tip is to reduce module hitpoints and maximally increase size of modules. Serious module damage and frequent ammorackings should be main balancing factor.

Currently french tanks are densely packed with modules, but there can be packed even more. Also whole autoloader module should be considered additional, weak ammorack. Low-hp ammoracks will make french tanks explode much more often. So far I haven't seen ammoracked frenchie and this could be crucial balancing weakness.

Additionally size of the turret ring can be increased.

[_Muody_]

 DriveBy, on 05 March 2012 - 10:19 AM, said:

Frenchies are prone to module damage. They can be prone even more. It suits them - they are small and fragile. They have large failpoint pool, but hits to these light tanks should be more devastating than to others.

My tip is to reduce module hitpoints and maximally increase size of modules. Serious module damage and frequent ammorackings should be main balancing factor.

Currently french tanks are densely packed with modules, but there can be packed even more. Also whole autoloader module should be considered additional, weak ammorack. Low-hp ammoracks will make french tanks explode much more often. So far I haven't seen ammoracked frenchie and this could be crucial balancing weakness.

Additionally size of the turret ring can be increased.

I love how you're trying to make them completely useless. Thank God you're not in WG.

[DriveBy]

 _Muody_, on 05 March 2012 - 11:41 AM, said:

I love how you're trying to make them completely useless. Thank God you're not in WG.

Would you prefer to limit damage, reload speed, mobility, aiming speed, acuracy on the move, gun depression/elevation or ammo capacity? This would make them really useless. What I propose is high damage output and high mobility balanced by extreme fragility.

[libaf]

What makes them "op" in my opinion are 2 things:
1) MM stacking them to one team and not giving the other any. That's almost an instant loss right there.
2) Perhaps not all, but most of the high tier lights have retarded module absorbotion. Sure, you lose the module but you won't lose any hitpoints. I can't count the times I've shot at one of them with the t30 orbital cannon and maybe broken the coffee maker. Hooray.

1) should be taken care of with the new matchmaking tuning (hopefully) and maybe they'll fix 2) with this round of nerfs.