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Hi, before the HE nerf it was accepted that the best gun for Stug was the 10,5 with HE but it is still the best option? on the other hand is the 10,5 a viable option in JagdPz IV?

10.5 should only be looked on as a support gun. You will be attacking modules and crew members instead of inflicting high damage. It is quite viable for the Jagdpanzer IV and the Stug III and Hetzer can even use it in a damage dealing role because the armour on tier 4 and 5 is quite thin.

I don't know about the gameplay stats, I don't even have Jagdpanzer yet but historically I would choose 8.8 over anything, from what I've read it should punch through everything.
Following this thread with interest since I don't have L/70 gun for my Stug yet.

Hans_Solo, on 13 February 2012 - 06:35 PM, said:

Both 88 and L/70 are undervalued by 20-30mm in penetration making them effectively one of the many black holes in the otherwise great galaxy of German tanks alongside the Tiger, Pz III Ausf A and most stock tank configurations.

Really, it's gotten to the point where I wonder why I even bother with German tanks under tier 7 anymore. Constantly matched up against tiers they can't penetrate when all the developer can do is change a fucking file or two and up the penetration of the L/70 and short 88.

How about upping the accuracy of the L/48 as well as penetration to about where the L/70 is now (138mm penetration) and removing the latter from the Stug III and Panzer IV, while restricting the L/70 to tier 6 and 7 (168mm penetration) and upping the damage to about 150 and the short 88 with slightly less penetration (160mm penetration) but much greater damage (220) to tier 7.

Really, the Jagdpanzer IV, VK3601, 3001H and 3001P have glaring flaws, especially in the armour, that show up greatly at close range. This can be conpensated for by giving them a great gun. The Jagdpanzer IV can even keep the short 88 and have two great top guns to select from.

German tanks in this game should in general be feared as long range tanks able to hold their ground but which become vastly less effective at close range where armour weaknesses become more apparent. Right now, they just don't have that UMPH, holy shit power that makes you stand up and take notice of them. Skilled commanders make the best, but even we can only put up with these weaknesses for so long before we get fed up.

If you're not going to fix the matchmaker WG, at least give the Germans guns to compete, which have barely changed since the game's inception, even though the battlefields of tier 5-7 have changed dramatically.

It seems you overvote for the 7.5 but please, clarify me if the 10.5 HE was the 1st choice before the HE nerf as i have intended.

7.5 l70 for the stug.why would you like to play with the 10.5???

Nordgul, on 13 February 2012 - 07:14 PM, said:

Before nerf:

Hetzer 10.5 was the best option. Stug III L/70 was slightly better overall although 10.5 still kicked major ass. Jagdpanzer IV 10.5 wasn't really worth it but still did some damage.

After nerf:


Hetzer 10.5 feels a bit underwhelming and unreliable and can't do much damage to higher tiers. Stug III can use its maneuverability to make the most of the 10.5 but its effectiveness, like the Hetzer, is reduced greatly. Jagdpanzer IV 10.5 similar use as before with a lot less damage to higher tiers.

berbeculos, on 13 February 2012 - 07:23 PM, said:

Guaranteed damage on almost everything?
I wish I could play WoT on my own computer so I could try the L70 already, I don't know if it can penetrate the Tigers etc. that I always seem to be coming across.

shoot the sides track anything on highter tier weak spots

long 75 on stug (RoF, accuracy)
88mm on jgdpzIV (more damage = less long grind)

Astalano, on 13 February 2012 - 07:08 PM, said:

Very good proposition. However, a few problems:

- Short 88 isn't really underpowered on tier 6 meds. I think tier 6 meds are very balanced overall. If the short 88 would be buffed to 160 pen it would definately overpower the tier 6 meds. Remember, the US tier 6 meds have even less penetration than the short 88 as it is now (128, but with insane RoF).

Solution would be to remove the short 88 from the tier 6 meds and give the 75mm L/70 as top gun (with your proposed 168 pen and 150 dmg). But even that may be too powerful. There should be some more trade-offs I think. The VK3601 (H) should keep the short 88 when it's moved to heavy tanks, it would then be very well balanced against the M6 and T-150 (Russian heavy replacing the KV-3). Of course the Jagdpanzer IV should be able to use the short 88 with it's buffed penetration, along with the 75mm L/70.

- the 75mm L/48 with the accuracy and penetration values of the current 75mm L/70 would definately overpower the Pz. III/IV against the Pz. IV. It already is much faster and agile and has better hull armor. I would welcome the change (because of it's very underpowered gun as of now), but there would be no reason anymore to take the Pz. IV. On the other hand, it would make the VK2801 more useful again.

- Same really for the Hetzer. Although I would again welcome a better AP gun option, a buffed 75mm L/48 might be a little too much (not sure though).  

Astalano, on 13 February 2012 - 07:30 PM, said:

It is a bit more unreliable yes, but the Hetzer is still perfectly fine with the 105mm. Still very playable and enjoyable. Also, next patch HE damage will be buffed by 20% again.

Hans_Solo, on 14 February 2012 - 01:12 AM, said:

No trouble with tigers. Aim for lower glacis and you will go through just fine (the lower glacis is a weak spot on most tanks actually). When the Tiger is angled it may be a bit more difficult however.

I used the 10.5 on the hertzer, didnt like it, went back to the 75mm, had problems, then following advice, went 10.5 again but played it as an assault gun more than a TD, that worked.

For the Stug 75 l/70 all the way no question, it does everything you need, you just have to play smart and pick your targets when in high tier battles.

JgPnz 88mm, then it works, i know every one says its a bad TD, but i liked it and i had a good set of results from it, you have to take more risks with it, like the hertzer, than you do with the Stug, but the 88mm hurts people.

I just got the 7,5 l/70 and I have to say it seems so much better than the 10,5.

The results of the poll say all.

I'm a new player, I don't have any hangup's or pre-conceived ideas about what should or shouldn't be the case for this game.... but I'm shocked at how bad the JagdPzVI is.   It's damage output is hilariously underpowered and it's ability to be one shotted by the opposition is quite extraordinary.

i played the stug with the 7.5mm when i first got it and hated it, even stoped playing td's for abit. a week ago i tryed it again with the 10.5mm  with HE ammo this time and i was like omg!!! why didn't i use the 10.5 befor!! now i get average of 3 kills a game, 1 or 2 shots most stuff and even took on a kv2 and m6 solo(albeit i was lucky). Average of 170 to 350 damage on all tanks up to tier 5(kv1 needs to be fanked) and since i play it like a support medium most ppl dont repect the 10.5 and try to rush me.    Just got the JagdPz IV, think i'll keep using the 10.5 over the 8.8 unless they buff it. 10.5mm is a must for all tier 5's that can use them in my opinion.

Yesterday i played a match with my StugIII (75mm) mounted and some guy in his JadgpzIV called me a noob, idiot etc. because i wasn't mounting the 105. He then bragged about one shotting tier V and VI with his stug mounting the 105. The match ended with him dying due to rushing somewhere alone and with us losing the match. Not really contributing anything to the discussion here, but i thought it was a related story.